Men isolated

[white knight]

I'd like to hear from men. I want to know your inner feelings about anything that you feel isolated about. I'd like to know if you feel that the revolution towards equality of the sexes has gone too far to a point whereby you are feeling inferior to women or you feel women are being treated better in any way - just because you are a man.

Emotionally, are you feeling that you get enough support from females? Do you feel women are afraid to hug you to comfort you for any reason? like you'll take advantage of them? Do you have many female friends? Do you feel that women socialize better? What do YOU want socially?

Feel free, talk, let go of your restraints, take advantage of the anonymous environment to let yourself be heard. We can do this and be in error, that our presumptions are ill directed and unfair. It could be our own inapproachability for example that can sway women away from us when we need them most.

Are we misread? I know when I'm in conflict with someone I come across as a little aggressive or arguing in a normal male manner and that can portray someone that is not in need of support but is someone to avoid. NOTHING could be further from the truth.

So that's one gripe. I feel women don't pursue the friendship care far enough. Such limited care results in my feelings of isolation. I think I'm a "giver" apart from my supportive wife no woman supports me anywhere near the level I give to them. Is this an illusion? What do you think?

Two people. One a woman that enters a group, say a hobby group. She sits down and isn't feeling emotionally well. She is asked a question like "how is your day"? She burst into tears. The whole group of 10 ladies stand and hold her hand, hand on her shoulder, comforting and reassurance. She is not alone. They even ring her later and talk at length. The other person a middle aged male enters a motoring clubroom in his local town, his male friends restore cars and share drinks. He sits and realizes he was in no shape to attend. A guy asks him how his restoration is going. He is upset thinking about his car as due to his depression he hasn't been to his shed for weeks. He suddenly starts crying. The men, all of whom start to feel uncomfortable, mention a few things like" you'll get there don't worry". He is worried because he knows that half of the men there actually think he is a softy by crying, to stand clear of him because he has problems, to avoid him as it might upset their own happy day in the sun....

Tony WK

[white knight]

Hi Kanga

Return favours aren't pleasant when they don't come. I really don't know where that comes from, beats me. Sometimes the benefit of the doubt is appropriate because in busy lives people forget and they underestimate your problem and your need to talk, the importance of it. So its really important to spell out your needs..."I really need your time, I'm desperate for you to help me sort some issue sout" etc.

Quirky- I know what you are saying. Young men however are different now than when I was younger. Jealousy was rife because a woman having a male friend that was strictly a friend wasn't so common. Now, well my best mate is a woman.

Thankyou for your honesty, that's what its all about, the rawness of it. However I have to say that if I went to a female friends aid in a time of need and my wife objected for whatever reason, I would never change that side of me because a/ I know I'm not up to no good and b/ that lady needed my help which is a priority over jealousy.

I would suggest that if a man is distraught a hold of his hand isn't ideal. I say this because men are touchy touchy people. Holding hands to men (or at least me) is a thing your girlfriend goes not a friend. A hand on the shoulder is the way to go. That action is everything. I is a truly supportive act, in fact as good as a hug. Hugs and holding hands risks a level of discomfort. Risking that is not what we want to achieve. I'm of course talking about a man in distress. A long hug for a female friend when they meet is quite fine.

What do other guys feel about that. Love to hear it.

Mrs Dools, thankyou . here is the updated list. I've tried to compact it.

Do's-

-Educating people about supporting others
-Measured and timed humour
-Silent company
-Providing/asking- a cup of tea/coffee
-Distractions
-Providing opportunities to talk

-having lifeline numbers handy for them
-Be patient
-give tolerance to changing their minds
- suggest activities

- turn of your mobile

- offer a hug

- ask if you can do anything

- later, follow up with a text or call

- comfort talk (eg "its ok if you don't feel in control")

- Be there!! even just sitting nearby

Dont's
- be wary that its best not to "fix" the problem. Support doesnt have to include remedies
- dont take offence with words or rejection. Remember they are not themselves

Tony WK

[quirkywords]

Tony, Thanks for your comments.

I was talking metaphoric hand holding but I have held a man's hand who was very anxious as that was what he wanted and he found it calming. I would not do something that I had not been asked to do. I take the dad from person who needs help.

The thing is everyone is different and you can have 5 men and 5 different ways of reactions to things and different emotions 5 different needs..

Thanks again.

Quirky

[blondguy]

Hi TonyWK

I am fortunate as my female partners have always been there for a guy that is doing it hard which was never a problem in my relationships as I have never been the 'possessive' or' jealous' type of guy

You thread topic is specific and we cant generalize about different men having various ways of reacting to having support. If we dismiss an important topic like this by saying everyone is different the thread topic would dissolve and be rendered pointless.

My best always

Paul

[geoff]

Hi Tony, by the way, an excellent thread topic and have been meaning to reply a while ago, so I'm very sorry.

From what I say is NOT to demean either the males or any females.

A woman says to a man 'do you know what I have to put up with any month, you'd hate to be a female' and when a reply is made' well I have to shave every day', there is no response made and for them to say 'yes I'd hate to do that'.

Years ago males were the dominant employers, secretaries had to do shorthand and be under the control of their male boss, now it's reversed, females tend to be your boss, with varying occupations like construction and mining where males are dominant, but supermarkets, banks, retail shops and even once male dominated careers like painting and other services are now recruiting females.

There's nothing wrong with that, but I feel inferior to them, they are the boss and that's why 'males feel isolated'.

Will continue.

Geoff.

[kanga_brumby]

Tony in response to what you said about my post. I have spelt it out to my youngest brother how much I have needed support. My other brother similar to myself has turned up in support. Right he could not do much but it's the thought that counts a shared load makes the load easier to bear. Most of my family have not realized why I was always the first to arrive at a family do. Till we lost our mother, and dad was going home to an empty house. He learnt to hate the house why? Because it was cold, dark, and lonely no one was there to talk to. He then had a snapshot of my life and he understood me better then. Unfortunately none of my siblings have been there. I have been there for them, I don't expect anything back from a stranger for help given. If I do get something I usually ask for a smile or a hand shake. I was brought up that without question your there for family. your job a very close second for with out your job you cannot look after yourself or family.

Kanga

[white knight]

Hi all,

Unfortunately my internet , wireless and pjone is down. Rats ate the optic fibre.

Thankyou everyone for replying, very interesting, I'll catch up in a day or two.

Thankyou everyone, it is indeed an informative topic. I think we are all benefitting.

Tony WK

[white knight]

Hi all, back on air on and off.

Hi Quirky,

Re: "I was talking metaphoric hand holding". I had no idea. Yes, we are all different and if you think a man holding your hand is ok then do it, no problem. However we are talking frankly about ourselves so there will be various differences between people. Here we are raw with our honesty about our own feelings hence I suggested a hand on the shoulder based on my own thoughts/wishes when the distress comes. Some readers might not have ever comforted a man. If so then a hand on the shoulder is IMO a better way. I think Paul summed it up well.

Hi Geoff, I will never forget a lady on TV (cant recall the program) that was listening to criticism of men. When it was her turn she turned on the women commentators and said words like "I cant believe what I'm hearing. You all talk about your men not doing this or that but if you worked physically as hard as they do you wouldn't be complaining etc etc. It comes down to accepting the opposite sex for their own abilities and natural persuasion as well as the "teamwork" being as equal as possible.

My wife does the washing. Often she leaves the washing basket on the washing machine, so when passing I pick it up and hang the washing. Now, my undies might not be hung out the "right" way but they do dry. I don't do the washing as I'd mix the colours. If I was single every garment purchased would be black for that reason.

I got annoyed also when my now estranged mother used to say "you don't know what pain is, try having a baby". She's 87 this year and irrelevant to modern younger women thank goodness. We men should not be intimidated by women due to our sex, the same as men saying to a woman "you shouldn't be a storeperson as you cant lift over 16kg" WRONG!

This is an age of equality. I'd say its also an age of teamwork to get a job done as we are built differently

tony WK

[white knight]

Kanga re: " I was brought up that without question your there for family."

You were brought up that way Kanga but it doesn't make it right to fixate yourself on the ideal. Siblings can drift apart and become distant. To devote every get together in the mindset that they are family so they deserve full devotion and support isn't real in my eyes. I would proportionate my devotion to them based on their devotion to me. EG your distant brother loses his friend in an accident. Then a phone call followed up with a second phone call would be appropriate. If he lost his child or wife then by all means visit, support and be there for him. Even though he hasn't been there for you.

But you will always be disappointed with friends and family if you fully devote your time and energy to them when they have been distant and non supportive to yourself. That devotion by you develops an expectation that they will do to you what you've done for them and that's not realistic IMO because- we cant expect everyone to like us enough to return the favour to the same eagerness. It just doesn't happen.

That's why I have my family. It can includes very close friends but doesn't include all blood relatives.

Tony WK

[white knight]

Hi all,

More raw honesty here

Geoff, I think you raised a good sub topic.

I'm a baby boomer also and I'm wondering if, due to the era of our upbringing, we have this unground cultural thinking that women should not be bosses or in trades professions not be more knowledgable or capable than us.?

If we take a construction site. A females executive with qualifications in concreting or painting etc arrives and directs the concretor to put more grooves in the concrete or tells the painter to put a third coat of paint on a wall in most cases I safely assume that when she leaves the males would be squabbling about it...condemning the boss "what would she know" attitude based on her sex.

We know this is wrong now and you pointed that out but I'm wondering- do we have a way to go in professions that are dominated by men? or some dominated by women. Why are most Chefs men? All these questions intrigue me. And honestly, I have this tiny bit of discomfort in it also regardless of me accepting that women can do any job men can do. It is interesting because I believe there is some residue left over from my upbringing. I never talk about it because it is an inner Jurassic feeling not worthy of discussing, until now.

Tony WK

[white knight]

TRIGGERS OR UPSET WITH YOUR PARTNER

Marital issues can just like women, cause issues with men. Mens reactions to criticism can be quite different to women. I'm not an ideal example as my illnesses arent reflective of common reactions but if we stick with this a man often wants to escape.

Escapism is to rid oneself of the toxic environment. This could be for many reasons- cant face being in error and obliged to apologise, cant stand yelling, cant face accusations, doesnt think the problem can be solved etc.

A thread dealing with conflict is -

(Google) topic: relationship strife?- the peace pipe- beyondblue

I had a trigger tonight. I love cooking. My coordination isnt great, stress! But we had neighbours over. I cooked hamburgers. Many ingredients incl pineapple, salad, bacon eggs, toasted buns. So thought I'add some chips that, in the mayhem were over cooked but edible.

We all sat down and my lovely wife said "I dont like my chips overdone". Boom boom! Of course I objected. It hurt.

To get my mind in perspective wasnt easy. My wife has depression and trauma from childhood like me (of a different kind), she suffers from foot in mouth, she apologized and we did get the dinner back on track.

Ten years ago I'd have walked out and left my dinner. Over reaction lessened as I've aged. But your reactions are ultimately your reactions not anyone elses so for that reason, you might not be able to control them but that shouldnt mean you give up trying.

We cant deny that men and women argue quite differently and either side can feel like escaping the scene. But as for a man I wonder how many suicides are -

• Post spousal dispute
• Child support issues
• Loss of full time parenthood
• Step parent problems
• Financial
• Confidence issues
• Ex spouse conflict

With the thread mentioned above it gives couples a dispute remedy. It, if implemented to the letter, gives couples a safety net, a way of resolve and imo the quickest way to get back on track.

Guys, dont play the escape game. It solves nothing. That lady might be yelling now but she'll hug you later. Relax.

Ladies, rest the issues, chill, follow the rules in that thread and wait a little time. Let his steam in his head escape through his ears.

This is what we have to learn!

A man can feel isolated in times of dispute. A women can feel desperate for answers.

None are worse than the other. Please google that thread...everyone. It works.

topic: relationship strife?- the peace pipe- beyondblue

Tony WK