Managing Boundaries

[Eagle Ray]

Throughout my life I have had great difficulties with boundaries. I have often allowed others to transgress my boundaries because I felt like I had no choice. This pattern comes from childhood where I was taught to focus on the needs of others but not myself. The consequences of not anticipating and meeting other’s needs in childhood were quite severe and often involved rage being directed at me. Hence I’ve been very sensitised to others’ needs in a kind of compulsive, unconscious way. Countless times others who’ve wanted someone to meet their needs have sensed this about me and quickly attached to me but they have often then become unhealthy co-dependent situations and I’ve felt trapped.

I am now in a transition phase where I am learning to unlearn this pattern. But my goodness it’s hard. With people who were being particularly exploitive with me it has been easier to leave those situations. But with others I can see their vulnerability and continue to have empathy for them. They’ve often had some kind of trauma themselves and have developed a particular attachment style. Just as I’ve developed the role of the carer/support person for others, they have developed a kind of dependency role. It’s partly because I have empathy for them that I can still struggle to set boundaries with them. I don’t necessarily want to walk away from the person and I care about them but I can find it hard getting the interpersonal boundary right.

I am gradually learning the following:

• how to see myself and start to consider my own needs.
• not feeling guilty for setting a boundary.
• listening to my body which never lies and will feel uneasy if something is unhealthy about the way someone else is attaching to me. I used to ignore this feeling by convincing myself that everything will be fine only to end up in bad situations.
• feeling a higher level of assertiveness.
• observing how the other person reacts when I do express a need around boundaries as this is often an important indicator of whether they can genuinely see me and respect my boundary needs or whether the relationship is one-sided.

I am interested to know how others may have learned to establish boundaries. I realise for some people it is second nature to take care of their own needs and boundaries while for others it’s very difficult. I just thought this might be a good topic for the Staying Well section as for me my ability to stay well has been impaired by my inability to protect my boundaries in the past.

Have you had similar boundary issues and have you found ways to manage your boundaries in healthier ways? Or you may have a different set of boundary issues and dynamics to me so feel free to discuss what is relevant for you.

[Fiatlux]

Hi ER and everyone else visiting this thread,

ER, you wrote about moving to a new Town and how you were hoping to make friends and become a part of the community. This had me thinking about a similar situation I was in when I moved into my own apartment in 2019.

To cut to the chase, I met 2 people in my complex with whom I had 2 very different feelings about.

One lady who lived a couple of units over, had small doggies and I had mine. We somehow clicked and our friendship felt easy and comfortable. She dropped by my front gate when out walking and if I saw her I would always go out for a chat. We never ever entered each other’s homes however. That was the boundary that we never crossed. She was a lovely person.

The other person I said Hi to one occasion lived opposite my unit and I was grateful that we had a large communal garden separating us. I could see if they were coming and going so I could avoid them. This is the neighbour who immediately crossed all my boundaries on our very first interaction. As boundaries were crossed I started putting up walls and hoped that this person would just abandon any attempt at contact with me. This person immediately invited themselves into my home and I couldn’t get rid of them faster. They gave me anxiety for many reasons. 

Now when my boundaries are crossed or even if I get a bad feeling about someone, I want to flee or get rid of them. 

Even with my husband I have boundaries with him and as I don’t like him I won’t let him overstep my boundaries. The other day, he came over and gave me a kiss. Eww I refused to kiss him back. I don’t care if he felt bad about it. He’s not a nice person and a kiss is not going to undo the terrible things that he has done and said to me. My walls are up.

I was just wondering if any of you get anxious when someone crosses your boundaries?

Have a great weekend everyone. Bless 🙏🏼 Fiatlux 

[Eagle Ray]

Dear Fiatlux,

I’ve found a similar thing to you where you kind of just know when you meet someone if you feel at ease with them or not and whether your personal boundaries feel safe or not. I had a similar experience to you when I first moved to the units where I live now. One person came and knocked on my door and came in for a chat. She was quite invasive from the outset and gossiped a lot in a negative, judgemental way about others in the units. I am wary when people do that. She wanted me to join social groups she belongs to and was trying to organise me from the get go. She was quite bossy. I chose to keep my distance. I had a sense her behaviour was more about serving her own interests than it was about mine and that she likes to order people around. Not long after another neighbour came to say hello and was absolutely lovely. My body responded completely differently to her and I immediately felt safe and relaxed with her. She is a lovely lady and we catch up for chats and cups of tea. There is never any pressure and I never feel my boundaries are being intruded on. So I think the gut feeling you have about someone is pretty important. I’ve made the mistake of not listening to it before. Now I use it as my most important guide to sense where another person is coming from.

So, yes, I get anxious when someone crosses my boundaries or I sense they are trying to. But I also pick it up faster now and go into protecting the vulnerable parts of myself. I’m trying to find a balance with those people who test my boundaries (however intentionally or unintentionally they’re doing it) and assess when there is a workable solution to still associating with the person or whether they are someone who is too much for me to deal with. I try to gauge their intentions. Sometimes they have good intentions and just struggle with boundaries themselves. Other times their intentions are self serving and they don’t have your interests at heart, and it’s those people I now steer clear of. And then there are people where it’s ambiguous and a work in progress figuring out what’s happening.

Norhing was taught to me as a child about how to handle boundaries. Therefore I grew up having no idea how to protect myself. People could invade my space, tell me what to do, override my preferences etc. I remember a creepy male relative cornering me at a family gathering in a sleazy way in front of my parents and other adults when I was 13. No one said or did anything. I knew he just felt wrong. A few years later he went to prison for assaulting a teenager. Even when a child your instincts just know when something isn’t right, but it’s challenging when you haven’t been taught how to act on those instincts to protect yourself. I went through two assaults later that I know happened because I didn’t know how to protect myself and the perpetrators sensed that.

So these days I’m quite self-protective and have been avoiding people a lot. I only want to let a small number of people into my life who I really trust. The one place I always feel safe is in nature where I don’t have to worry about humans. I often withdraw there when the human world gets too much. But I also know human connections are important, so I’m trying to cultivate healthy connections with good people.

I hope you have a lovely weekend too Fiatlux 🙏

[Fiatlux]

Hi everyone,

Boundaries I have set and have enforced with narcissistic abuse husband.

He sat in the same room with me this afternoon to watch football. I did not engage in any conversation with him that was unnecessary or not related to the football game. He’s the worst person to watch football with.

Tomorrow he is going to get things sorted out for hard rubbish day. I replied, ok. I am not even going to get involved with it tomorrow. I plan to stay upstairs and out of the way.

I wasn’t in the mood to cook dinner so I heated a ready made quiche. I cut myself a piece and sat down to eat. He asked me if he could also have some. I replied sure, cut yourself a slice.

I wasn’t going to serve him as I had in the past.

He has finally gone upstairs after the football finished and I downstairs listening to music and playing some games. I can’t stand being in the same room as he. 

I don’t look at him when he speaks to me and I don’t look at him if I must answer. I don’t and won’t engage in unnecessary conversation. He’s an awful person. 

[Eagle Ray]

Hi Fiatlux,

I know I have often tried to appease someone by doing something for them. So I too would have cut the piece of quiche for someone in the past, even if I wasn't feeling comfortable with the person. It seems like you are shifting the patterns. I hope he begins to recognise your boundaries. For me the behaviour of always taking care of the other was a pattern learned in childhood. It is really common in complex trauma to develop what Pete Walker calls the fawn response, where you meet the other's needs in the hope they will not cause harm and might show kindness back. I don't know if it is the same for you, but it has certainly been a pattern I have repeated many times and very unconsciously for a long time.

You may find, over time, that you gradually build stronger boundaries bit by bit. It is happening that way for me, a gradual learning. I am learning it is completely ok to say no to things. It's still not easy yet but I am learning to quietly but firmly defend my boundaries and protect my needs. I hope you can find ways to protect your needs and boundaries too.

Take good care,

ER

[Emotions26]

Hello all boundary keepers

Not an easy task at all.

I find that my boundaries either need moving somewhere else or someone else has already moved them.

I am still learning and the closer and longer knowing a person the more difficulty I have.

I feel guilty.

I know that this is part of the spell and webs that have been woven.

Just so awful learning that so many have been busy working their evil on me.

Learner

Ems

[Eagle Ray]

Dear Ems,

 I can hear and totally understand how hard it can be with boundaries. I am definitely still a learner with it too. I think missing out on good modelling of what boundaries are as a child can lead to not being able to know how to manage boundaries when older. It can feel like a minefield at times. I am trying to self correct by going through the learning I should have decades ago. I’ve become particularly reclusive in the last few years as I’ve felt the need to withdraw (including from unhealthy relationships with poor boundaries) and kind of self-nurture and protect in order to build my capacity for handling boundaries better in the future.

I really understand the guilt thing. I’m finding it can be so hard to set boundaries at first, but you do come out the other side of that and I find each time I set a boundary it makes future boundary setting easier. A lot of it has come down to self-preservation then developing a greater capacity for caring for myself. I’m learning to defend myself even a bit like a mother lion protecting cubs, so someone crossing my boundary is impacting the inner child part of me who I’m learning to protect. That child didn’t get protected in actual childhood.

I don’t think it’s ever too late to learn boundary management skills. It’s just a bit more of a challenge when we missed out early on. I’ve found varying responses when beginning to set them. Some people have become more sensitive and aware of my boundaries and probably didn’t fully realise they were even transgressing my boundaries as I wasn’t good at even setting them. Others have got cranky and those people have been easier to discontinue contact with as it’s become clear I was always just a resource for them. I don’t feel guilt now in relation to those people. One has tried to reel me back in with lovey dovey cards being sent for more than a year after initially responding to my boundary setting with several abusive phone calls where things were said to try and cause maximum hurt to me. Her pattern of behaviour is manipulative which has become so clear to me now and so it becomes much easier to say no to any contact with that person. She is now in the process of trying to manipulate other relatives against me (as I’m hearing info from those other relatives) and as hurtful as that behaviour is, I know I can’t control what she does and just have to keep self-nurturing and walking a path that is healing and healthy for me.

I too can see all sorts of awful things done to me looking back, but I can feel the strength in being wisened to it now. I can also see how some of the manipulative boundary transgressors are themselves damaged people. I’m also learning though that I am not responsible for their issues. I’m learning I can forgive past behaviours too without having to let certain individuals back into my life.

I think it does get easier Ems, even if the whole boundary setting thing is a bit of a rocky process at first. I’m definitely still in self-protective reclusive mode but building inner strength as I grow and learn.

Much strength to you too,

ER

[Fiatlux]

Hi ER and everyone who reads this,

I refuse to hug him

I REFUSE TO HUG HIM

Earlier today he was crying and I still refused to hug him. I refuse to fall for his manipulation, pulling at my heart strings. I told him to take the day off. He went upstairs and started bawling loudly but I didn’t move. I left him alone to have a good cry. We all do it sometimes. Just need a good cry. Let it all out… nobody gives a toss about you. We all have our issues…

I carried on and ignored it and him. He doesn’t deserve my kindness, respect or even a kind word. He’s trying to manipulate me and the situation.

He is all good now, back to his normal self. Yelling and cursing and blaming others for his circumstances. My dear son walks around with his headphones in so as not to hear it. He doesn’t want to hear his father’s constantly complaining about him and the awful name calling. My dear son just doesn’t deserve what his father throws at him. He’s doing his best under the pressure that he’s under. I think my son wants to teach his father a lesson in life. 
 

That same old b.s. line that I am doing all this for you. Working hard just for you. The same old b.s. my husbands parents used to throw at him… it’s a vicious cycle and a horrible pattern to live and work just for your children so you too can guilt them into feeling so terrible about it all.

I swore hand on heart that I would never ever make my children feel bad about me working just for them to have a better life. What a thing to guilt trip your children all the time.

Dont care if he cries about it, he made his bed, so the saying goes… Fiatlux 🙏🏼

[Paw Prints]

Hello Fiatlux,

I just wanted to give you a hug.  One of my brothers was a master at emotional manipulation & it took me ages to see it for what it was.  I'm glad your son can see it & is able to find his own way to no take it on board.  

Thank you for sharing this, I hope it helps others to set boundaries when it comes to this type of manipulation

Paws

[Fiatlux]

Thank you Paws,

This is the same man who often and more frequently now tells me that I can move out, if I don’t like it.

IT Is his foul language and verbal abuse. 

He pleaded with me in 2020 to move back in. He’s a changed man. He is so sorry for all the years of abuse. He will do whatever and everything it takes to have me back. I’m back and so is HE.

I am here for my son. 🙏🏼 Fiatlux 

[Eagle Ray]

Hi Fiatlux and wave to Paws,

Setting physical and emotional boundaries is so important and it sounds like you are doing both. It sounds like a tumultuous mess with your husband’s behaviour. Wearing the headphones is a good way for your son to assert his boundaries. He probably feels bombarded. It would be great if in time your husband showed some learning around boundaries and changed some of his behaviour. It’s really difficult though and if challenged directly about their behaviour it often gets worse. I feel for you and your son so much in that situation. I walked on eggshells as a child and was always trying to avert a conflict or rage escalation in one or both parents.  I’m still no expert in this field and struggle to know what to do with manipulative aggression. I can feel extremely vulnerable around such behaviour. All I can say is I think I am learning some inner fierceness to protect myself that starts to automatically say no to certain behaviour. I think it’s possible for someone to be both fierce and remain balanced at the same time when protecting boundaries. This can potentially be sensed by the other person as an energetic boundary and they begin to learn to back off.

There is also the “grey rock” method for handling narcissists. If you google “grey rock narcissism” you should find info on it. It’s basically giving very little feedback/info/interaction to the other person. You interact just enough to sustain communication but avoid sharing much. It involves not emotionally reacting and not getting caught in their emotional manipulation. It sounds like you are doing something a bit like this now. The idea is the narcissistic person will lose interest if certain behaviours aren’t getting their desired result. It may be tricky as they may escalate the situation initially to try and get a reaction. Perhaps that’s what his crying is about as he may be sensing you asserting more of a boundary so this may be his current tactic. It is all so difficult and I know I would always go to support someone crying in the past myself and not even get the emotional manipulation going on. I’d feel like I had to do something to help to make things better. All strength to you for maintaining your boundary,

Take care Fiatlux as I know it’s a very challenging situation and quite exhausting to deal with. Keep checking in with all that is balanced in your world such as your sons or talking on a helpline or chatting here if it helps as a counterbalance to that which is unbalanced. I hope you can find some moments of peace. I know you find a lot of solace and connection in music.

Hugs,

ER