Scared of my ex and missing my kids

[Toni_Hall]

My ex partner has a long history of being angry. He holds me completely at fault for our relationship breakdown three years ago, and has aggressively sought to alienate me from our kids, to the extent that my teenage daughter stopped coming to stay here after he claimed that I had an affair whilst we were still together. She sent me horrible, hate filled messages for a long time. Of late, she has sneaked over a few times and we've chatted about all sorts of things, but tonight she has suddenly told me she can't see me again. My 10 y.o. son (who still comes, despite being withheld apparently of his own free will) and I still have lots of time together, and have a lot of quality time whenever we can, but I do notice some things coming through in his behaviour - the first day or two back he talks to me like I'm dirt, and most of the time I have to be very careful about my approach to talking about anything he has done wrong, as he immediately tells me that it is my fault and becomes very angry and/or distressed in seconds, like a switch has been flipped. I can't even frown in his presence or breathe incorrectly, as he'll take it as a sign of anger from me and become defensive. I have no other support, no outlet for discussion, and am constantly working hard to avoid conflict with my reactive ex, and to support our kids without setting him off, giving them free passes to behave badly, or lose my (great) job because of the unreasonable demands my ex makes (if he has his way, he'll move my son to a third school in three years). He has the marital home and all of the resources, and despite custody and financial agreements, continues to do what he likes, when he likes. I have long given up aspirations of making this work ad a co-parent situation, and I'm now just trying to survive and do the best I can for our kids, whilst he manipulates my world and theirs at his whim. I feel so lost. I've been speaking with a social worker for 6 months, but she can't be here 24/7, and I can't keepholding this in. I know I'm doing everything I can, and I'm doing it the right way, but I'm exhausted. I can't take the kids away, because they will hate me for doing it - they love him, and he's done a great job of holding them emotionally captive. All I want is to have my time with them and not have to worry that he'll destroy them or my relationship with them over his need to be seen as a victim.

[therising]

Hi Toni_Hall

Such an incredibly heartbreaking situation for you to be in. I feel for you so much as you work hard in considering the best way forward, a way that works for you and the kids. 

When I consider the tension in the household my husband and I used to share (between each other), one thing I failed to do back then was ask my kids how they felt living within that much tension. I grew up in a similar situation so was perhaps desensitised to it. It wasn't until they were older and with the support of each other both confidently expressed to me how they felt it. While it wasn't hostile enough for them to feel any fear or dread, it was still challenging to live with. They led me to become more conscious of it while their honesty also changed the dynamics of my relationship with them. This woke me up to inquiring into their thoughts and feelings more often when it came to all types of situations or experiences in their life. And this change in me led them to inquire into my thoughts and feelings more often. We developed a different relationship which serves us as they now move into adulthood.

The reason I mention this comes down to something you may have already tried, not sure. Inviting honesty, freedom of expression and transparency when it comes to thoughts and feelings, might be something that makes a difference to the relationship you share with them. 'How do you feel coming here to stay with me?' or 'Is there anything on your mind that's troubling you? I give you the freedom to say anything as long as we can have a mutually respectful conversation, so we can make sense of things and sort things out together' or 'Are there any questions you feel the need to ask me?' or 'Do you know why you feel so angry?' etc. You become the parent who gives them the freedom and skills to express themself without fear and also the parent who leads them to consider their feelings as valid. While this may sound all nice and flowery, it's not easy. I've found home truths from my kids can hurt at times, whether this involves the absolute truth or their perception of what's true for them. Managing emotions can also be tough territory to cover. If I have anything to do with a sense of sadness or heartbreak they may be feeling, like with 'You just don't give me the time of day lately other than to tell me what I do wrong', for example, I have to feel that heartbreak to know where they're coming from, as opposed to stopping the conversation because it's too painful to hear.

Sounds like maybe your kids could be experiencing some mixed emotions, based on how your ex may be leading the to perceive and feel things. While 10 year olds can be challenging with their behaviour at the best of times, getting all emotions and troubles out on the table, to explore together, could be something that may make a difference to him and you. If there's a possibility that one or both of the kids defends you at times and your ex shuts them down when they do, that's not giving them the freedom to express themselves while feeling heard.

[Croix]

Dear Toni_Hall~

I'd like to join Therising in welcoming you here to the Forum. I'm sorry you are faced with  such an impossible situation. Unfortunatly toxic relationships continue after the separation if kids are involved so sadly he is still able to try and rule your life.

One thing to consider is that if he behaves in such a manner to you and lies to the kids then I'd be pretty sure that this sort of thing is not just confined to you and the kids, but is part of his overall life. That probably means he uses the same tricks actually on the kids themselves, maybe distorting the truth about one to the other, or about their freinds the same as he distorts the truth about you to them.

It sounds as if his example has had an effect on your 10 yo, with a mix of anger and distress, coupled with trying to emulate his behaviour when he first comes to you. Your daughter also seems to be almost in a state of flux, sometimes believing him, other times needed ot approach you.

I don't know how much you realise it but you presenting a normal life with normal behaviour gives an example of how things should really be, and also provides them wiht  a refuge, even if at this stage that have not complete accepted either. Not surprising really. Your example is terribly important - how else will they know how the real world behaves?

I know you have a hard time when your son first comes over, however can I suggest the less you allow him to treat you badly the better. It must be a hard balancing act to try to get him to be reasonable without driving him away. Perhaps a calm refusal to accept derogatory words and going on with normal activities might help. If you are doing this already my apologies for the suggestion

I'm very glad you have a good job, not only for the sake of the money. but also to give you something else in your life, and perhaps a sense of pride and satisfaction. I'd suggest letting your ex connive to make it hard for you to keep it really must be resisted, even if it means you need to refuse any arrangement he has made to make your employment position more shaky .

Not easy by any means, however you do need to try for a life of your own. That too might  be an example of reasonable behaviour to the kids.

You may think my suggestions are impractical, perhaps they are.  I'll give you another though, and that is to ask how you'd feel about trying to get a little social life, whether with people from work or elswhere?  It can only do you good and broaden your life.

You know you are always welcome here and can discuss anything you like

Croix

[Toni_Hall]

Thank you for your kind words and helpful suggestions. I am very careful not to permit bad behaviour towards me, taking the time to remind him that I'm a human being, and that if it wouldn't be okay for me to speak that way to him, I don't expect that he'll talk to me in that manner. Then I offer up a chance to talk about what is going on. I feel fairly exhausted at times by having to walk this line - it hurts to have to continually defend myself to get basic humane treatment, but I know it isn't because he doesn't love me, and I have a responsibility to him to make sure he learns what is acceptable treatment of others.

I would very much like to broaden my social life - my ex and I have been apart for almost four years, and many of my closest friends are still too closely tied to him to be comfortable for me. He likes to tell me that people report back to him, although I rarely have a word to say about him. I understand this is his way of controlling my social life, and so have not let it impact me too much, but the reality is that I need to find a part of my life he has no influence in. I re-partnered a couple of years ago with my best friend, and we have a pretty remarkable connection, but we are currently taking a break, as I just can't manage a relationship right now. The biggest problem I have is that I don't think I could do meaningful social interaction if I didn't get all this off my chest first - I couldn't contemplate having yet another place where I am not honest about the fact that I'm simultaneously heartbroken and downtrodden, angry and disappointed and somehow miraculously succeeding professionally and terrified that it, too will be lost if I stop to take the breath I know I so badly need. I would like some light-hearted relationships in my life, but before I can do that, I need to find some people who can walk with me through the hard times.

[Toni_Hall]

Thank you for this response. I definitely try to make it a free zone to talk. One of the reasons my kids lose it with me is because they know I will still be here when they are done. I am not a doormat, but I do offer a place for them to just be themselves. Reading your reply does bring to mind some other options for ways that I can invite this, though, and I will give those a try.

I think what brought me to this forum was just that I'm exhausted and in need of a way to lift myself up a little so that I can keep going. Two days after my original post, my daughter sent a text asking for a recipe I used to make. I sent it. I followed up with a text asking how they went a few days later and got no reply. One week later, she responded, "Stay out of my life, please". I have never given up, despite being treated woefully, but I am so tired now that it is crippling. And yet, still, my son and I have had a really good week together, because I am dedicated to providing the best I can for them.

I am so acutely aware of the mixed feelings that you are talking about. I spent two hours talking with the school staff this week about exactly that this week, as my son was hurt at school and when my ex was called, he hurled abuse at them for 10 minutes and then hung up without the principal getting another word in. We have been trying to navigate challenging school circumstances for what seems like forever, but his approach is a huge part of the problem. He refuses to listen to anyone, and constantly feeds his opinions on school staff to our kids. This has left my son feeling yet more isolated and unwilling to go to school at times, though he clearly has some functional relationships there.

My ex partner's tactic has always been to toss in a grenade and then expect that I will go in and clean up the mess. This led recently to my son's principal labelling him a bad kid, my son lashing out, and to my ex calling me a child abuser for sending my son to school. I've spent this whole year trying to get across to the school that I don't think for one second that my child is perfect, but that he is a human being and a child who needs the same protection as every kid would. If he doesn't feel safe and the school keep holding him responsible even in the instances when he clearly wasn't, the cycle will be endless, as the kids giving him a hard time tend to take this as a licence to behave badly, he retaliates, the school complains about him, my ex tells my son that the school has it in for him, and we do the whole dance again. This last meeting, I took a child safety advocate with me, to help them better understand what I was trying to say, and it was a better meeting than we've ever had. My only way forward right now is to support the structures around my kids to make sure that they aren't isolated further, and to try and be a safe place for them when they need me. I just don't have many supports of my own to help me while I do.

[Croix]

Dear Toni-Hall~

It sounds as if you are handling the kids the best way possible under the circumstances, and having the determination not to be a doormat is exactly what I'd try to do. It sounds a pretty heart-breaking time.

Unfortunatly the example you gave about school, with your ex telling your son it is the  school's fault and him retaliating as a result -then you going in the opposite and more realistic direction will be confusing and may lead your son to be more anti-social. However that balanced view is really needed.

I think taking the child safety advocate along was a good move, and given the situation you may have to do so again if they are willing. At least it lets the school know it is not your son, but your ex that is fermenting trouble.

I'm sorry the relationship with your friend has not worked out, it is very difficult once one has had a bad relationship to go into another. Hopefully you will meet someone you can lay out the facts and your feelings to and they will be a support. I"d imagine waiting until your life smoothed out might not be realistic.

Croix

[Toni_Hall]

Thanks, Croix.

My son and I had a great weekend, I hope you did, too.

The advocate has asked for a followup meeting in 2 weeks, so we will do that and go from there. It feels good to have someone in the room with me who can help. There are so many mixed messages about parenting at the best of times, but in this situation it is harder still. I'm doing the best I can, and I make a regular effort to evaluate and check myself, and to make sure that the things I'm doing are for the right reasons, rather than just pulling in the other direction because I feel like it.

My friend was very good at the facts and feelings part, but they were the only one, and with so much happening, that's a lot of weight to bear. He was my ear for 8 years, and my partner for the last two. I've never had a bigger cheerleader, to be honest, but being two people with different reasons to be worn out and stressed with only each other to share things with is a cycle we needed to break, so we are taking some time apart to work on things and build our strength. We still talk regularly, and we have occasional visits, too, but right now we are better off missing each other than being together. We spent a couple of hours together last night after my son had left, and it's clear that we still have all of the same feelings for each other. I just need to find some new friends so that when we are ready to try again, I have more than him in my life. He needs more friends, too, but I can't do that for him. We have to work together, apart, for now.

[Croix]

Dear Toni-Hall~

It sounds like you have a pretty good idea of what is needed to get back together with  you friend. I expect you are right, when there is just the two of you it can become too much, and a broader outlook and outside resources are needed.

In face even if you were not planing on getting back together having a wider base of friends and interest would be good for you both anyway.

It makes a huge difference having someone on your side about the school, and I'm very glad the advocate wishes to return. It was good to hear you and your son had a good time, great for both of you

Croix

[Toni_Hall]

Thanks, Croix.

Unfortunately, today took a turn for the much, much worse. My daughter is refusing to speak to me and told me to get out of her life (all by text). And my ex is sending messages telling me that the school hasn't fixed anything yet and that if I expect our child to attend there I am engaging in child abuse. I fear a new cycle of alienation has started, and I need to be very careful about what I do and say next, because although it looks like textbook coercive control, he has made no actual threats toward me, and has made a good fist of winning the kids over - I am so scared that I might really lose them now.

[Croix]

Dear Toni_Hall~

I guess it was to be expected he is being as coercive and toxic as usual. Really he has only the once card to play, your love for your children, their welfare, and for them to love you. So he keeps playing it.

This has to be very stressful and very upsetting for you, and that can take its toll, becoming over-stressed, less capable of riding with the upsets and more. After all if someone is out to hurt a person then they will feel it deeply.

If you have not already done so can I suggest you see a councilor who is familiar with such behaviour and give you assistance to be there for coping in the long haul. You have to remember your stability and love is something your kids can look to and remember when life gets hard for them. It is of great value.

I'd also suggest giving the abuse specialists 1800RESPECT a call and see if they have any advice, or can point you at somewhere that does, your situation is something they would be very familiar with.

While I guess you have to be capable not to give him any ammunition he can use I suspect acting on hte advice of 1800REAPECT plus the child advocate would be fine.

Kids do not stay the same all the time, they learn and most often can see when things are not right - in this case with their dad's behaviour.

You are doing a great job in the most difficult of circumstances

Croix