My estranged daughter turns 21 today

[Jstar49]

Hi everyone, I'm completely new here so Hello and thanks for being here.

It's my eldest daughter's 21st birthday today and I'm feeling pretty emotional about it. She hasn't spoken to me in 4 years, and refuses to have any contact with me, my husband or our 10 yr old daughter. I was a single mum with her, stayed around her dad's town in order for her to have a relationship with him but finally left when she was 8, to return up north and be closer to family. That's a whole other story.

She was impacted by my PND, for sure, and things have always been intense between us. Chaotic too. Interesting, but not exactly stable. My marriage when she was 10 was the start of some kind of normal, and now I've never been so content or mentally/emotionally stable, even tho I still need to take care of myself, not get overwhelmed, and watch myself re: taking on others opinions/judgements.

I worry about her but I tell myself maybe it's for the best, maybe she just needs time and space to discover who she is, and learn to forgive the mistakes of the past and accept herself and myself for who we are.

It's hard tho. Today I just would love to see her, see her smile at me, hug her and tell her how proud of her I am. And hear whatever she has to say.

Anyhow, thanks for listening. I know there's others out there with similar stories. It seems like the world just needs a course in family harmony! It's so sad for the kids that get caught up in it.

Cheers,

Jstar

[ecomama]

Dear me J* that's really heavy stuff you're talking about.

IDK how you even handle that at all.
Sure I was accused of such also in the last "marriage" (I put inverted commas there bec I found out he'd NEVER been faithful, not even for a week blerghhh).

But I actually laughed when demon accused me of adultery.
I thought it was hilarious BECAUSE I didn't have any freedom whatsoever. Zero.
Didn't even have a phone for many years.

So I laughed. I didn't have to force laughter, I literally knew it was so ridiculous that it was comical.

Then instantly walked away. If he followed me then I'd go into the LAUNDRY (lol) and hand him baskets of clothes to take out to the clothesline. He hated that and often left the house.
Because HE was cheating. Crazy stuff.

Anyhoo... have you spoken to your Counsellor / Psych about this stuff?
Not that you have to tell us stuff, just that this is pretty major stuff and deeply eroding your r/ship.

I am SO hearing you about the housing crisis.
It's here too!
The rents are SO HIGH and they were high BEFORE this crisis.

Since demon left I've had so many ppl ask if they could MOVE IN here with us.
I've had to say NO. I used to give reasons.
Now I just bluntly say no and give no reasons.
Seriously if they can't realise why to ask in the first place, then...

Hence I need to build this cabin.
But I won't lease to friends either.
It's a business and financial decision.
I have a LOT of work to do yet to be "financially stable".

But the Tenants can have DOGS lol.

J* do you think H just WANTS to have "conflict" in the marriage?
He seems to be searching for it, scratching around to try and find "some thing" where there's nothing.
Like he could be "needing" conflict?

IDK I find this very bizarre behaviour and you know it too.
Hence your struggle with it all?

Better have some dinner.

Love EM

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey J*,

You're welcome. 🙂

Okay, it's a good start that he's showing willingness to do those things. Though he's said that before. Has he actually begun following through with any of it? I don't blame you for your apprehension, I know all too well how common it is for men to tell you the pretty words then follow through for a day, maybe a week or two, or more often not at all. You'll know soon enough if he understands and values you enough to make real and sustained change.

Great work applying for the job. That's enough for one day, you can let your eyes rest.

Again, good about him agreeing to get quotes to remove the security grills. How is that panning out as far as action goes?

I understand your apprehension about intimacy. As EM said, that comes with feeling safe, and previous episodes of paranoid accusations afterward do not lead you to associate intimacy with safety. That trust has to be earned back, and it won't happen over night.

Glad there was amicable discussion over your job prospects and how to manage all that. That's progress I hope you can build on.

The thing about legal advice is that you don't have to follow up on it. The point is that you do feel up in the air, and pretty much at the end of your tether. Knowing the possible battle ahead will help you mentally prepare for it. I say this because when one needs to just get out, often it is the fearful unknowns that keep people rooted in place. If you know the steps and the pitfalls, that empowers you to leave if you need to, or stay with the knowledge that you know what to do if the unhealthy paradigm reasserts itself (i.e. feeling safe and capable, whichever eventuality emerges). That's my take on it.

Re the scenario in that movie - my ex kept asking why I didn't say I was thinking about leaving before I actually did. Was it not enough that I told him clearly and regularly that I was miserable, exactly what he was doing to contribute to it, and what I needed him to do differently? He gave me pretty words and changed nothing, and didn't understand why the same pretty words didn't turn me around when I said I wanted out. Fundamentally this is a flaw in the individual, they have to learn to value others full stop, it isn't just about marriage. To borrow from Covey, it's a huge paradigm change, a complete internal 180, not a few external actions to line up with stated wants/needs. I hope your husband is willing to dig deep for this and understand why it matters, it won't be quick or easy.

Blue.

[Jstar49]

Hey Blue, Hey Em,

I'll keep this brief, cos, well, I think that if I don't overthink this it will be easier! Plus Em's got plenty on her plate, and I'm sure you do too Blue.

Thanks y'all.... (Brene Brown podcasts coming out of me lol)

House is quiet today, with d away at a sleepover. H napping, I'm kinda sorta organising my sewing room, when I'm not on here...

I've rung the glass dudes for a quote- in motion! Won't be able to come for 2 weeks. H has made an appt to see new GP next Friday- progress! He's also keeping our couples counselling appt next Friday, tho it looked hairy there for a minute.

We successfully re-started this morning, after a horrible end of night last night, I'm very much aware of things still hanging in the balance, delicately. Coming back to MY VALUES, constantly. Kind and caring, but to me as well.

I'm observing things which trigger headaches. Food, coffee,sugar, eye strain. I can perhaps sleep better and longer than I have been, have to try this out.

I had a massage yesterday, and have resolved to get one each week or fortnite, if I can. Just so essential right now.

Please note all my 'I's....!

HE is travelling along in my wake at the moment. Gotta stay strong. In amongst that, he is trying. I am recognising his insecurity, and working hard to allow him to be vulnerable, and not shame him for it. Not to endlessly reassure him about my love, but just to let him know that it's ok if he's not as strong as he thinks he 'should be'. Not as gorgeous, or as rich or whatever all men seem to get programmed with. Bloody species from another world if you ask me!

Hangin' in there,

Thanks for the solid ground guys,

LOVE J*

[ecomama]

Hey J*

Yeah lots going on there too by the sounds.

Amazing that H took the step to book in a new GP.
I hope he's able to tell the GP some issues and be honest about it.

Glad you're getting the windows the way you want them.
It's a constant thing when you have a home of any type lol.
Something always needs doing (unless you have a workforce lol).

I'm sorry you had a horrible end to last night.

Is there are cycle he does? Like every weekend or such?

And / or do you think he could be "creating drama" as a means to avoid intimacy? And I don't just mean intimacy as in sex, I mean finding keeping you at a distance so you don't find out WHO he really is?
Like he "has to" do this stuff to keep you at bay?

IDK J* I totally agree about the completely different species stuff lol.
Some times I have the patience and empathy to work through stuff with my partner.
demon completely wore me out always bringing major issues of all types upon me to sort out and fix...

BF does the same.
I guess it's the burden part of relationships lol!

But it's like "what's mine here?" and "what's YOURS" ie stuff that's beyond my capacity, qualifications lol or just YOURS?
Ofcourse then there's what's OURS.

Sure a men's roles in society have changed and there's a lot of "how am I supposed to BE?" in there bamboozling them, they put on faces & fake living up to expectations real or imaginary.

They're not sure how to BE ie be themselves.
And we all know that men's greatest fear is ridicule.

While women's greatest fears are being sexually attacked and murdered.

HUGE chasm there.

But it ALL got put onto women entirely, in my life at least, with that dual "fighting for 'equal rights'" and simultaneously men going through the loss of power and control noted most in our society after WWII.
But this kind of collapse and then hopefully a wholehearted REBIRTH has happened to so many cultures with conquests by other nations.

I just asked Alexa for the book title she said helped her so much to understand men in the "loss of the Warrior" status. I want to buy it. This is written clearly as we obviously know about losses of cultures, esp indigenous.
But it can be related to ours also. Ours was less explicit and obvious.

Yep deep!

I'll get the title but I'd like to buy and read it also. Then give to my kids at home to read.

Progress well noted!!

You're doing GREAT!
More importantly lol what are you sewing??? 🤣😂

Love EM

[Jstar49]

Hey Em,

Such an interesting conversation!

One thing I was able to say to H recently (sound bites seem to work, better than long DM's...;)

"I want us to be able to take our masks off with each other. " Acknowledging that we all wear masks, necessary part of life, etc ect, but talking about how with our partner, we have to be able to drop those masks. He made an interesting comment which showed that he really prefers to only see my happy loving side LOL when I drop my mask....Sad but true! But anyway, we were able to talk about that a little too.

The bad end to the night IS a regular thing! You clever cookie! Friday night syndrome. H kicking back after a hard week, drinking a bit more than usual, usually skipping dinner, talking to mates on phone and listening to music. He has set himself up with music in another room, which works really well, less conflict over the noise and tv - ACDC on full bore isn't how I like to spend my Friday night lol- BUT it has to end sooner or later, and thats usually difficult.

So yeah, we were able to talk about it over w/e. He still doesn't get what it is about his behaviour in those moments that I hate so much. The aggressive unleashed quality of him, the way it can turn nasty, as if I'm the 'little woman' interfering with his fun, trying to tell him what to do.

Feel a bit disloyal saying this stuff cos we actually had the most open and trusting time on w/e, with intimacy, tru intimacy-(not 'the deed' but better). I felt some thing shift when I voiced my heartfelt desire, that we could remember, in our arguments, that we love each other, instead of coming from that space of 'unloved and hurting', constantly needing to protect ourselves. It seems to have made a difference.

Have to remember this.

The whole sexism thing, and roles, seems to me to relate somehow to how we have traditionally viewed rape, as a culture/society. That it's up to women to fix, that it's about womens choices, rather than there being equal responsibility for how we progress forward. Only recently the chief of australian defence force has copped flack, rightly, for the directive issued 'to protect young cadets' which focus on womens choices, 'the four A's'.

It's appalling that more consultation wasn't sought or listened too, and it makes it really obvious how ingrained it is to blame women, across most societies.

Thank goodness we have the ability to see these issues thru a different lens.

Cheers lovely,

J*

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey J*,

You're right, there's plenty on our plates right now, and on yours too. We're all a bit snowed under, methinks.

It sounds like you're making some real progress with your husband at the moment. Being assertive about what you need, and working with how he understands things (i.e. bite sized sentences) to get your points across. I'm seeing there are bumps along the way, but even when everything is fine and dandy that can be true - no two humans can coexist in the same space without some conflict.

Quote for the windows is great, looks like you have a time booked in. GP and couples counselling appointments Friday, also very good. Fingers crossed all those things go forward as planned.

Happy to see you got a massage, being able to give yourself some space and care is so important - and you sure as heck need to be able to relax sometimes, to tackle all you're dealing with in any sort of reasonable frame of mind.

You said: "I am recognising his insecurity, and working hard to allow him to be vulnerable, and not shame him for it. Not to endlessly reassure him about my love, but just to let him know that it's ok if he's not as strong as he thinks he 'should be'." That's a great way to approach it. Unlike you and EM, I don't see men as from another planet, and have for one reason or another cast myself in a very male role throughout life (whilst also being subject to the expectations placed on females, that's just dandy) - I completely get the sense of not wanting to show weakness or be vulnerable for those reasons as well as abuse/neglect reasons. Those walls are hard to let down, and it won't happen overnight. I can't say how it's all going to pan out long term, but there is real promise here. Even if it doesn't go well in the end, I'd say it isn't on you - you're doing really well with this. Got my pompoms out to cheer you on.

Blue.

[ecomama]

Hey J* and a wave to Blue lol (just finished my post to you Blue)..

I'm just going to throw this out there J*, since we can lol... 😉

You could consider "giving H Friday nights off".
Like completely bail out of the house with T and go see a movie together or meet up with her friends & their mums some times.

H can do as he pleases. It's his night off.

You can get some bonding time in with T. Maybe even ENJOY it lol!!

Next thing.... I don't want to bring psychology in but I'm gonna lol!!
When BF is opening up (he's so open now it's mind blowing lol!)... I thank him.
I thank him for the privilege of his trust in me.
I tell him I've got his back and will never use this against him.

Then I can FEEL he's seeking acceptance from me... sometimes a collaboration... other times not sure... but I know for SURE he's feeling exposed and vulnerable!

When I sense this, I use a Brene thing... and say "I'm so glad you shared that with me"
Yep he reacts as Brene's H did / does and says "BS (Lol) Don't you want a man who will a,b,c?"
my best reaction to this now is " Baby, You are the most important thing in my life, along with the kids, and to be able to know you and love you is the most important thing in my life. To be seen by you and loved by you is the most important thing in my life. You're so precious to me".

Sometimes he's actually cried by me saying this.

All uncertainty and questioning is diffused in that moment.

A feeling of SAFETY saturates our relationship.

J* you are loyal to your marriage.
You are allowed to talk about anything that worries, concerns or bothers you about your marriage.
This is a confidential forum where people seek help and can bring their concerns and worries to and sometimes OPEN UP for the first time!

What a privilege it is to be the "first responders" to people feeling so vulnerable.

Through opening up in our most vulnerable times, and getting solid feedback from others, whether we take anything on or not, it almost doesn't matter lol... we can gain the courage to face our issues.
Bit by bit is all fine.

Then deal with them.

Empowering ourselves along the way.

You've got this sister!
Lol.

Love EMxxxx

[Jstar49]

Hi peeps,

I have a Britney song playing in my head- oops I did it again... only it’s not me who did it, but my partner, woke the ugly sleeping monster, reminded me what it’s like.
The trouble with going out is you have to come home.
And when he realises what he’s doing and saying, and what the atmosphere has become like, then he apologises. And I’m not sure if it’s safe to relax yet, so I don’t. And I’m careful. Oh so careful. Because I hate his contempt, and the raging furnace of his jealous love.
we have counselling tmw. He says it’s the last time.
I think he’s been trying really hard this last week to be ‘good’- so that he won’t have to talk about it to anyone.
I have a job interview tmw too. Big day.
J*

[ecomama]

Hey J*

Congratulations on your job interview!!!

GO GIRL!!!

That's awesome news.

"the last time" for M Counselling huh?
ok! his choice.

YOUR choice about how you see things too.

I'm very very sorry about Hs attitude. About his raging fury. etc.

As much as you can, please try to compartmentalise THAT to make space for YOU and your job interview.

It's quite a thang for abusers to thwart opportunities like job interviews for their spouses.
I would leave early!!
Just to make sure you make it there in time.

Ignore ignore ignore. For now.

Lots of love and Prayers for tomorrow!

Love EM

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey J*,

Oh dear. Trying to interpret what you've said. You went out and copped jealous rage after? That's not good, and coupled with his idea of today's couple's counselling being "the last time"... I'm not discounting his efforts so far, but there's a long way to go and he needs to realise it's a long-term commitment, not "be good for a week and hope not to have to talk to anyone about it". That's not a healthy way to go into it. It seems he needs a big paradigm shift - to actually want the marriage to work, not just to get his butt out of the fire in the short term. For your sake I hope he can figure that out, it's still early days.

Wishing you the best of luck for your job interview. You're doing so well, following the path you need to follow for your own wellbeing. I kind of agree with EM, that maybe part of your husband's slip into bad behaviour is trying to emotionally destabilise you and make the interview harder - so he doesn't have to deal with what it means to have you working away from home. If that's true, remember you're doing this for you, and self-care isn't only for you - it gives you what you need to be healthy and happy and the best wife and mother you can be because you're not being made miserable playing the "little woman" at home.

I hope you have been/will be able to take a minute to meditate and get your head straight before your interview, clear your mind of the BS and focus when you are in there. Save the home stuff for after.

You've got this.

Blue.