My estranged daughter turns 21 today

[Jstar49]

Hi everyone, I'm completely new here so Hello and thanks for being here.

It's my eldest daughter's 21st birthday today and I'm feeling pretty emotional about it. She hasn't spoken to me in 4 years, and refuses to have any contact with me, my husband or our 10 yr old daughter. I was a single mum with her, stayed around her dad's town in order for her to have a relationship with him but finally left when she was 8, to return up north and be closer to family. That's a whole other story.

She was impacted by my PND, for sure, and things have always been intense between us. Chaotic too. Interesting, but not exactly stable. My marriage when she was 10 was the start of some kind of normal, and now I've never been so content or mentally/emotionally stable, even tho I still need to take care of myself, not get overwhelmed, and watch myself re: taking on others opinions/judgements.

I worry about her but I tell myself maybe it's for the best, maybe she just needs time and space to discover who she is, and learn to forgive the mistakes of the past and accept herself and myself for who we are.

It's hard tho. Today I just would love to see her, see her smile at me, hug her and tell her how proud of her I am. And hear whatever she has to say.

Anyhow, thanks for listening. I know there's others out there with similar stories. It seems like the world just needs a course in family harmony! It's so sad for the kids that get caught up in it.

Cheers,

Jstar

[ecomama]

Hey J*

Our connections, tech wise are usually fine. It's just the time zone differences that are difficult really.

But BF is a product of an extremely wealthy, steadfast family.
I'm not lol.

Similar to you and Blue and many others here, working thru our stuff, I've had to claw my way through understandings and personal development to get through the abuse and trauma.

It's CLEAR here.
We're all pretty much flying through now.
Incredible but so much hard slogging to pull us all through it.

So much convo with BF is each of us sharing our life's experiences. Since he was born in New York, lived in Cali and now Washington, his life has been VERY different to mine.
Including his European heritage.

SO it's REALLY interesting lol! We learn stacks from each other.

But even with all that, our personal VALUES are very much aligned.

What do you mean C was "off base"? I'm not sure....
Possibly C giving you an entirely DIFFERENT reaction to Hs 'passive aggressive' treatment is because your previous reactions haven't progressed things in your relationship?
Not saying the relationship is ALL on you lol.

"Detachment" is a virtue.

Sure feeling like you "need" the argument to get it all out etc, is pretty understandable.

I know you've been feeling upset alot lately (also understandable), and you mentioning depressed at times and confused alot.
You're also working through stuff including FOOs.

My take on depression is sometimes it can be a result of suppressed anger over long periods.
Also suppressing sadness.

I'd rather BE and FEEL angry & try to get it all out than to feel depressed which is more aligned to a feeling of helplessness and hopelessness. Realisations of these last 2 was what REALLY motivated me to get OUT of my mouse wheel feelings and CHANGE things for myself(whilst still in that hell "marriage").

So are there mentally HEALTHY ways to release the anger & frustration you're feeling atm?
I just Googled it lol!
Yep, including "rage".

Love EM

[ecomama]

Hey J*

I couldn't finish my post lol... so here's the rest!

To beat my own depression, I worked HARD in my garden.

At night I was either in my garden, cooking yummy foods the KIDS loved to eat lol.
Or sorting seeds out in "seasons" to plant out, planning my garden.
Sewing, creating, reading etc etc. It was a REALLY boring "marriage".

Eventually after 1 session of Counselling thru my Trading Group... months later, I GOT what that C said. (He was VERY intuitive!) He said "get financially INDEPENDENT" and pushed that message.
About a year later I went back to work outside the home.
The job closed due to the GFC. demon did some major stuff then, I had to spend 9 months of my life to sort all THAT out AGAIN.
Then back to work.

If I HADN'T done this, my life, my family, my home would have been in far worse ruins than it was. And it was bad enough.
I didn't know this at the time ofcourse.

I really thanked that C in my Prayers for a long long time!

I really don't know what your Hs caper is, I really don't.

I suspected an affair at first.
Then suspected addiction to pornography.

Mainly because when a partner is forever accusing their spouse of having affairs, I've found in my own and friend's and family's relationships that it was THEM who was doing this stuff.

And withholding intimacy is a form of control IMO.
H being passive aggressive and being a tantrum thrower is also a form of control.

IME Arguing with such ppl, just gives them more fuel for their continued behaviours.

"Forms of control" used to manipulate are signs of domestic violence.

In a nutshell J* the best you can do is to CARE for yourself and T.

Love EM

[Jstar49]

Hi,

OMG I'm working on so many things atm! If I think about it I may get overwhelmed, so I'm just putting one foot in front of the other.

H came home less passive aggressive. A bit earlier than I was expecting so I didn't get to put my dance DVD on.

My comment re: C was about her/them thinking he has OCD. It's def not that, not from what I've read. But it is something. I used to pick fights, which tbh probs made our home environment worse, even if it did get things out in the open. Today I am waiting for a good time to speak to him about it, reiterate my request for him to see a Dr. And Psych.

Have looked at how much is similar to DFV situations. Esp in the past financial control. Me returning to work is changing that, in me and also in the r/ship.

Boring relationships! Oh Lord spare me! Me too!

But usually boring is safe, too, and I don't get the feeling that was the case for you Em.

The anger is a big one. For me it's historic, largely, so whatever is going on now tends to piggy back on that old anger, if I'm not careful. Got to work on releasing it in the now. Love my dog! He gets me out of the house and sweating it out! And I have my seedling trays out and ready for planting, which hasn't happened since early spring.

I'm still applying for jobs. I'm considering saving up this year and going for a diploma or Degree- it would land me the jobs I'm more interested in. I'll get work first tho, and build on that.

Yeah, thats what I'm figuring Em. Look after me and T. So much of a good marriage is about persistance. At the same time, persistence in a bad marriage isn't helpful. I figure I will know when I know. Get work, be independent, detach!

Values are so important aren't they. I used to think we had similar values. Certainly were much more aligned in the early days, both going to church and that part of our lives really important.Now, I'm not sure.

I love learning in my relationships! If I'm not learning, I get bored. I only fully realised that now...

In my Brene Brown book she asks the reader to choose 2 or 3 values from a huge page list of possibles. As she says, having 10 values is as useless as having none. Something like that. It was hard to me to identify what is really important to me, from that page. Honesty and Caring .

One of H's values is loyalty. It's come up many times. He believes I am being disloyal. He doesn't see how he is being disloyal.

I don't think he has hidden addictions. Altho he likes underwear ads lol! I see it all!

Thx Em,

J*

[ecomama]

Hey J*

Okay so your C thinks he has OCD.
I wouldn't know lol.

I've found so many times that Cs and psychs overlook DV. Some have zero idea at all like last psych. I had to ditch her bec she was so ignorant and actually victim blamed me.
At the same time telling me my friend was "mad" ending a long marriage "at our age".

Well my friend is FAR happier now.

Anyway I haven't seen Brene's list but I'm not about to do any searching anything for a while lol.

Ys party on Sat and my clothes drier arrives the same day.
You'd get it more if you saw what I had to deal with lol.

I can hear you feel you'd be overwhelmed if you tried to psychologically deal with everything at once. It's probably not possible TO deal with everything lol.

I'm glad you're still applying for jobs. That's awesome.
Great idea doing a Degree or another Cert to get jobs more like what you wanted.
Why not hey?
SURE helps beat the boredom!

That was the springboard for Alexa to study Psychology. Stuck in a horrid relationship.
I got a PDC Scholarship during my "marriage dull boredom" years.

Yep DV has around 8 forms they've noted now. Certainly Financial Abuse is one of them. demon did that to the nth stratosphere lol. demon did all of them and worse.
Some forms cross over like a Venn diagram.

Once you have "your own money", YOU can decide upon things there.
I would have all my pay going into an account in your sole name.
Then "contribute" what you decide upon.

Ofcourse ALL monies are marital income in the eyes of Family Law.

In one way I really hope you don't have to go down that road.
In another, if you can't do this anymore then you'll know.

Once I was done, I was absolutely "overdone"!

I have some good news I need to write about on my thread but I'm tired and have lots more to do tonight!
Then again tomorrow night (and dealing with a massive bully who bullied me at work today - she doesn't realise I have a recording app on my phone! lol)

Talk soon
Love EM

[Jstar49]

Hi,

So just writing this more to myself than anything- but feel free to comment!

The rollercoaster continues.

Today, H WILL NOT go to GP or see a psych, and there's nothing wrong with him, and I'm DEFINITELY talking to this guy, whom I haven't seen or talked to in about 5 yrs I think, and who was H's best man at our wedding. We are back to where we were one month ago, only worse. (thats when we negotiated the agreement to see a Dr and get a second opinion.)

So, I'm applying for jobs, in other parts of the state, cos atm there is ZERO availability in the rental market. Besides my quals might just be enough to get me into the field and role I'm after, if I was in a different area.

So. Win win!

Now just to begin the application,a nd hopefully I'm in with a chance. If not, well, nothing lost.

Have no idea how it would all work out with T, altho have considered asking mum for help, just until I get settled. H's work is all hours, so it's a bit hard for him on his own.

Anyway, pie in the sky stuff. One step at a time.

I feel disappointed. My trust has been abused. I'm over it. Over being sad or mad about it. Over talking endlessly about it. Over sitting at the dinner table pretending. I signed up for 'Better or worse' not this SHYTE! This is not anything. I would have supported him thru recovery. Or even at least exploration. I will not sit here in my own home and be constantly accused of lying and cheating FFS!!!

Okay. Sorry, thats not yours. I'll work it off tomorrow, altho maybe not in the garden. Suddenly it seems to make sense why my garden is empty.

PS Already have my own account so no trouble there. Working out when to transfer a lump sum to get me thru the first few months lol!

Cheers,

J*

[ecomama]

Hey J*

Sorry to hear H went back on his word about seeing the GP and a psych.
That's disappointing and frustrating tooboot.

If you are planning to leave, I wish you all the very best ofcourse, but please get some free Family Law advice. Things are so hairy in FL, I doubt anyone would believe the wrangles, tangles and issues with it all nowadays.

FL is NOT straightforward.

Women's Legal Service is a free over the phone Consultation service you can book in for a call with.

One thing I know is that as long as you are still married, all monies / property etc is deemed "marital assets", so you're as entitled to it as H is.

Best wishes J*, this is huge.

Love EM

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey J*,

Finally made it to your thread.

I'm sorry your husband has backpedalled on what he agreed on re seeing a GP/psych. Never mind the constant distrust, I can see how that's wearing you down.

I'm really glad you're still applying for work and aiming for financial independence. Is the idea of working elsewhere in the state the idea of leaving the marriage cementing itself? Certainly he'd need to learn trust in a hurry for things to hold together if you were away regularly. Anyway, whatever the trajectory, financial independence is so important. I really hope you get work soon, and can get a bit of a nest egg together.

I agree with EM about getting some family law advice, it was a minefield when my parents divorced, I'm sure it's worse now. I was never actually married to any of my exes, so don't have any first hand experience with any of that.

Here to support you through whatever happens next.

Blue.

[Jstar49]

Hi all,

Blues! So nice of you to visit!

Thanks for the support girls.

Update: H is currently doing the whole 180' thing- he'll get an appt, and consider the Psych eval. Hmmm. As I said to him, thats great, and we'll see.

I put in my appication for the job- gave myself a massive eyestrain headache to boot, so just recovering from that. My wondows have these awful security grills on them, so you can't have a clear unobstructed view. We don't need them where we live- prev owner was living in fear I guess- and H was reluctant to take them off. Anyway, part of his 180' turnaround is agreeing to get quotes for the removal of security screens. !!!

And massage on w/e, and attempt at intimacy, which was nice, but I'm not ready for. After last time. ( Which was very quickly followed by a paranoid episode- kinda spoiled it)

So.

Spot on Blue, re the trust needing to improve to survive a slightly LD r/ship. We've managed to discuss it amicably. He thinks he can manage w/T. Maybe he can, with some changes and a lot of support. He doesn't want her moving to this town, and tbh I don't think it's fair for her when I'll be working FT. Anyway I haven't got the job yet, just hoping. It's the sort of thing which would give me good experience in my field and allow me to move back, with that under my belt. To hopefully get similar job here.

I cannot contemplate legal assistance as yet, given the situation is so up in the air. If H gets help, if I don't get the away job, if I find work locally, everything may change.

Em I don't really know if I am in a bad r/ship, or if it's a good r/ship going thru a rough patch. So hard to tell! If H would just follow thru on some of his decisions (which fear of losing US may motivate him to) then we might be ok.

I watched a wonderful movie recently- The Marriage Story. We follow this beautiful couple thru a painful divorce and by the end understand that really, if the guy had just listened and valued his wife as an equal partner, listening to her needs with as much attention and importance as he gave his own, then their marriage would probably have survived and thrived. It was a good lesson, and one that H and I watched together recently, finally. (It was on my list for ages)

So maybe thats our story too. Maybe H needs to value me enough to actually listen-and act upon- what I want and need, at the same time as being able to present his own wants and needs.

Cheers,

J*

[ecomama]

Hey girls, my thought train led me lots of places after reading your last posts here and in other spots.

My thoughts and theories maybe lol follow but I'm FINE to be wrong about other's r/ships... just some stuff I'm throwing out there....

When there are issues in the intimacy dept in long term r/ships then these issues can be really complex.
After some deep thought and reflection, each partner needs to feel "safe".
Clearly the 'episode' has not helped create a safe feeling J*.
Then there's the rejection / accusations etc along the way further eroding trust, instead of building trust.

Going back a bit, we need trust to feel safe.

So if either or both partners feel 'threatened' by anything, from their own thoughts to fears of being criticised then there we go again. On the mousewheel of eroding trust and nothing contributing to feeling safe.

Even though there can be real physical issues - basically instantly ED comes to mind for men and peri / menopause can be a problem for women....

In SOME cases even these issues are eradicated with feelings of trust and safety... not always but in mine and BFs case yes.

Before we met BF and I discussed his previous experiences of ED. He really emphasised this issue, I listened for ages bec I hadn't had previous experiences of it. I learnt alot, he went back YEARS with me.

But for us, clearly it was a feeling of trust and safety that was missing in his previous marriage.
His exW was always threatening separation and divorce.

This was NOT a motivator as she thought it would be about many things, what she did was increase his anxiety and depression and make things worse.
I think Alexa did this in her previous r/ship too. I've done it!

Perhaps we're wired differently?
Perhaps we're not.... I doubt I'd make any changes with threats... I'd make the changes motivated by LOVE though!

BF and I haven't had any problems there and he's shocked and delightfully surprised.
We've talked so much about it and this is what we've come up with.

Your thoughts?

Lots of love
EM

[Jstar49]

Hi Em,

I think I get where you're coming from, I think you're being beautifully delicate...?

So, today is another day, with some real conversation, which is beautiful. I cannot even describe how good it is to have real conversation, instead of defences and walls. However, this too shall pass, and I'm reminded of the cyclical nature of all things (tho the cycle of violence does come to mind, with it's honeymoon phase...)

It's been on the table, very clearly, for at least a year, that if we don't grow closer, we shall grow further apart. And in recent convo's I have been careful to be clear that this job application of working away is not a threat, it is something I am following thru with if possible, becos it is good for me and my career. Altho it did arise from his lack of following thru with getting a second opinion on his paranoid delusions. No other way to describe what he accuses me of, regularly. With absolute certainty. And it only factored into it becos of my need to not be here, in this house, if he continues to allow these thoughts to control his behaviour to me. There is nowhere to rent in this whole valley atm. There are families living at the caravan park, waiting for a house to become available. 20 ppl turing up for rentals.

So it's a bit of, the carrot AND the stick.

This man is not an enlightened, evolved man willing and able to talk thru our problems. He's a pretty ordinary bloke, with a heart of gold, but if you cross him, or he thinks you have, then that's it. Even today, while we were having a rational, clear, heart to heart, both being open and honest, he said to me "If you're talking to him just say so"

Just to be clear I have told him, many times, that I'm not talking to this guy and I have no interest in talking to him. But sometimes my facial expressions, or the way I talk, reminds H of him, and thats it. Flip! So I don't defend myself any more. It's his choice now, to believe me and therefor seek to find another reason for his thoughts, or else we won't survive. Plain and simple.

Feels like shit either way. For both of us.

I feel like I'm manipulating him into seeing a dr, for his own good. He feels like I'm calling him a crazy psycho. Or that I'm setting him up for a fool, sending him off to see Dr's when I'm lying the whole time.

Mental health issues suck!

The whole ED thing doesn't even come into it. I can't even go there. That may be an issue for him, and therefor for us, but this is the priority just now.

J*