C-PTSD and fear of people

[Eagle Ray]

Warning: possibly trauma activating content.

I have made significant improvements in complex trauma symptoms in the past year. One of my biggest fears is that people are going to harm me which is ever-present but had lessened a lot. Then on Monday I got triggered by something that is probably not harmful but activated terror in me. It’s too much to explain the context here.

Do others have this extreme fear of people and if so is there something that you’ve found helps you?

To me it is experienced as life threatening terror. I can feel my body literally recoil from any contact with humans. Animals are safe to me but not humans. I have experienced a lot of trauma throughout my life.

Over the past week I’ve had unrelenting anxiety which yesterday also became depression which I know is a result of the anxiety not resolving. I want to run away from all people and go somewhere remote in nature. I’m also dealing with bouts of cognitive confusion linked to an autoimmune condition I have which isn’t helping.

I know self-isolation is not a good or healthy long term strategy. However, I want total isolation from people right now. It is the only way I can feel safe. It can feel like this is the only way I can be safe in life, to avoid people as much as possible, even though there is part of me that loves people and wants connection. But right now connection feels profoundly dangerous. I am back in the centre of my childhood terror.

Right now the Bruce Springsteen song Brothers Under the Bridge is speaking to me in which a Vietnam veteran tries to explain his need for isolation to his daughter. I think my grandfather was like this in how he isolated from others following traumatic war experiences. I think I’m trying to work my way out of this inherited intergenerational trauma as well.

[white knight]

Hi ER and welcome here Dools,

I've been busy. I read with such interest because your parent Er did indeed have sufficient love for you but sadly for a variety of reasons some you know some you dont, didnt download to enough physical and verbal reassurance as parent usually do. The absence of that can be debilitating. My dad I've mentioned many times was the "salt of the earth" with his only fault being his 100% commitment to mother even when mother used her web of manipulation around us all.  I think this poem explains a lot about the absence of my dad physically cuddly his son-

TO KISS HIS TEMPLE

There were some things I knew as taboo

to express my love but to question who?

to touch the pale face of my dad back then

when touching taboo...when "men were men"

For boys were male and "you cant do that"

jealous of my sister and that is that

that man couldnt hug his son for how he was seen

nowadays if you hugged your son- well, you'd be relieved.

And so my dad the salt of the land

wouldnt touch me even by hand

he knew he loved me and I him

with a wink of an eye from under his brim

Then that day we all regret came along

where watery eyes was met by song

and there he lie with an eerie smile

I be alone with him for just a while.

As I stroked his forehead cool to touch

I raised my head automatically as such

to kiss his temple of which I dare

I knew his mind was well aware.

Of all the kisses I missed

they gathered together in just one kiss

finally as his spirit rose and went

he left his love and hugs were spent

I never craved again heart be blessed

that tradition of males their love expressed

a kiss on his forehead way back then

ended an era when "men were men"....

As you can see I yearned for his touch that my younger sister had in spades. I dont blame him, his upbringing was poor and difficult. Youngest of 7 and raised by his 8yo sister as his mum passed at him 2yo. His father was stern and no affection.

I'm hoping the tears helped ER. They drop and turn to brain glue...

TonyWK

[white knight]

ER, 

Re:  "I know self-isolation is not a good or healthy long term strategy. However, I want total isolation from people right now. It is the only way I can feel safe. It can feel like this is the only way I can be safe in life, to avoid people as much as possible, even though there is part of me that loves people and wants connection. But right now connection feels profoundly dangerous. I am back in the centre of my childhood terror."

This is what I'm concerned with and clearly it is out of my depth. however, I'm happy that you started the thread and I've benefitted also. We can continue if you are happy to do so lovely.

As to the above I quoted, my only connection to anything like that would be fear of crowds and humans to a lesser degree post my workplace injury that laid me off work for 10 months in 1988. Prior to that I was living my life is a snowball oblivious to the danger humans presented in a hidden way even though I had spent 3 years as a warder it was like "well all the bad guys are in here and the good guys are on the streets." I wasnt fully accepting that grey haired older men with smiling faces presented any threat at all, after all they looked so distinguished and honourable right? 

"I want to run away from all people and go somewhere remote in nature."  As you know I tried that 5 times in my 20's, I was even prepared to ditch my motorcycle if it ran out of fuel. It's irrational but short periods of doing that can be beneficial. My stints were up to one week at a time, towards the end of which I had thought a lot and reality kicked in for me to realise it wasnt such a good idea. The things that made me realise it was- basic essentials (I had a saddle rash from the motorbike so where and how could I get soothing cream?), food (my beloved beaked beans ran out, the original theory was to hunt... yeh right), toothpaste, renewing my eye glasses etc.

So the closest I got on a permanent basis was the last home we owned up in the hills with 250 people in town on one acre and people left you alone. The locals soon realise you are a nice person but almost not there. When mowing or gardening a wave is what you produce.. thats your effort towards local community lol. But seriously what you are portraying Er is hermitisation, maybe we (you and psych, us just chatting etc) could look at that as a planned future rather than a need due to fear? Eg what is the harm to you in being a hermit or someone that partially withdraws? Should we all aim to be social butterflies?

TonyWK

[Eagle Ray]

Dear Tony,

That is a beautiful poem. It brought a tear to my eye. It reminded me of sitting with my Dad in his final minutes of life as his spirit too rose and left. I can see how hard it would have been for you seeing your sister receive affection from your Dad that you were needing from him too, but it was just something men didn’t show to other males, even with your Dad who loved you. I imagine having a stern father would have consolidated that pattern of him not showing affection towards you. I wonder too if the sternness and harshness in his father contributed to him acquiescing to your mother, almost like a fear of rocking the boat and the response it might provoke.

Yes, the tears help me. It is all stuff coming out now. For a long time I’ve had stuck, complicated grief but it is loosening its grip and releasing progressively. Thank you for being so kind to chat with me about these things because it helps me process and move through things like grief and fear.

 I was proud of myself today. I came across one of the people in town I’ve had some recent challenges with boundary-wise. I maintained my boundary with this person keeping my protection up energetically. That was enough for them to back off and leave me alone. In the past I would have felt like I have to be responsive to them (known as the fawn response in complex trauma). But today I was like an animal in a nature documentary sending a message to the other animal (person) I don’t want them invading my space. I didn’t feel the slightest bit guilty either whereas in the past I would have worried about their feelings while negating my own. I can tell I’m getting tougher. Grrrr 😂

I hope you are having a lovely day and thanks again for your support 🙏

[Eagle Ray]

Hi again Tony,

Just seeing your last post now. For me the escape seems to fulfil a purpose. It actually gets me out of my freeze response by taking action. I love being on the road and got enormous benefit from my last trip and I’m heading off again tomorrow. So at the moment it is doing something for me that is helping.

 I have learned that chronic freeze in my nervous system is linked to all the health issues I’ve had. I’ve learned I have to act/do something to get out of it. Thinking doesn’t work to solve it.

While I remember as a teenager finding the thought of being a hermit appealing, living alone in nature, I know in reality completely separating myself off from all people is not a good idea. But right now my instinct to get away on my own feels correct. Even though it came from an initial impetus to get away from all people, I still meet people along the way and enjoy those transient interactions. And I know I will come back to my town and settle back into some sort of life.

But I’ve also realised I’m somewhat a nomad by nature and my spirit needs to do these trips. I’m on a 3 month medical exemption from Centrelink. A few weeks ago I could barely lift up my body for the whole day or do the most basic household tasks. I was so ill. But the new med I’m on for the disease I have is really helping. It restores the blood-brain barrier so my cognition is coming back as is my energy. So I want to capitalise on this too and enjoy life while I can.

So I am ok and please don’t worry. I won’t become an actual hermit. I will just gradually re-enter the world of people at a pace I can tolerate. It will probably start with going back to volunteer work which I’ll probably start again in a few weeks. There are good people at that workplace and it’s a good community to be a part of.

Thanks again Tony

[white knight]

ER

That all seems very balanced and in mental health finding balance after seeking it, is a major achievement we often don't credit ourselves for.

I can see much clearer now your description of your core ongoing ingrown issues relating to this thread, your fears. I've always seen my fears as insecurity whereas many insecurities would be fears.

I think you exercising your boundaries with that person was a major step forward. When that move is taken on the odd occasion a person will realise their common approach to you was misguided and they'll regroup and realise they need to treat you with caution, another good result.

I wonder if your spirituality can extend to eliminating some fear? Similar to a Christian's faith gives them security. Spirituality of course is a more personal existence. My rambling thoughts lol.

Ps, you're most welcome 

TonyWK 

[divine_inner_goddess]

Hi TonyWK, 

Beautiful poem, thank you for sharing. 

It reminded me a bit of when my father died in hospital. I was holding his hand and reminding him of our favourite memories of sailing together on his boat. He loved that. He could barely talk by then, but I could feel him strongly holding my hand and at times croaking out some words to join in the retelling of the memories.

He had never said I love you in my whole life. It just wasn't the done thing for a man to say, I love you. And he was largely absent in my upbringing, so he wasn't really the conventional 'father' figure anyway. But, I could feel it in that moment. He really treasured those memories and I was happy that it was probably the last thing he was thinking of when his spirit finally left this world.

I left the hospital ward shortly after that to get some fresh air outside. It was in that moment that he passed. After he died, I kissed him on the forehead or temple or somewhere on his head, as I said goodbye. I had never kissed him before, nor had he ever kissed me. It felt strange. But, complete.

Even though it's a memory of him dying, it's also a beautiful memory that captured the special bond between us. 

dig  

[divine_inner_goddess]

Hi Eagle Ray (and TonyWK), 

Well done with the boundaries!! It's so hard isn't it, with our background?! Other people who haven't had a trauma background must just do it automatically and effortlessly. They probably don't even realise that they are setting boundaries. But for those of us with traumatic childhoods, it is very difficult. For me, it feels dangerous, because of the terrifying repercussions I experienced in my childhood.

I also had success with boundaries on two occasions in the last week. I sent a text message to a friend who was constantly ringing and inviting me to social things. In my text I had to tell her that it was too much for me and asked her to stop calling me. Afterwards, I could sense that I was tense and anxious - an old pattern of being terrified of the backlash that might occur, and anticipating that I would feel under attack. It took her about a week to reply that she couldn't catch up because she needed space. I could feel the relief in my body after I received that text because a) thank goodness she has named that she needs space, which is actually what I need too and b) it was a fairly friendly text, nothing malicious. In the past I would have just tolerated the constant calling, to the detriment of my needs, and continued to smile and nod, fawning and people pleasing, anything to 'keep the peace' and avoid confrontation. I can now sense a shifting of this old pattern.... 

Secondly, on Thursday I replied to the email from my case manager that had triggered me on Tuesday and I set a firm boundary about further emailing. That felt very empowering.  

This was all this week whilst I have been dealing with big emotions coming up from my psychology session on Monday. Far out! It's intense!

But again, well done Eagle Ray. I really know how difficult it is. And I also know that feeling of growing stronger and tougher. Grrrrrrrrrrr!! In one of Peter Levine's exercises, he says to imagine yourself walking down the street and there's an aggressive dog barking and growling at you. But, you stay strong and stand your ground, as if to say, "I have a right to be here on this road". Emanating a strong energetic boundary - like how you described when you say the person in your town.

Those are my thoughts for today 🙂 

Take Care, dig 

[divine_inner_goddess]

Hi again,

just correcting a typo - when you saw the person in your town (not say). 

dig

[Eagle Ray]

Dear Tony,

Yes, it felt really significant to set my boundaries with that person. The number of times I’ve given my power over to another person is ridiculous. Without realising it was happening I would have this person start clinging to me, taking up my time and energy, expecting me to be constantly responsive to their emotional needs and using me to serve their interests. All the while they had no sense of or interest in my needs and I would be basically invisible to them as a person in my own right. Given I was taught by my mother very early to be responsible for her well-being, I can see how this pattern just became ingrained and automated for me.

I agree very much that spirituality can have a lot do with eliminating fears. Certainly in nature, which is my spiritual home, I just don’t have fear and feel held and supported. It’s like the trees and other plants, animals and even rocks feel like other beings, like friends or family. That may sound weird to some people, but my first attachments were to those things rather than other humans.

But when I come across people who are like-minded souls I do start to feel part of humanity again. I had someone sing some healing songs to me earlier this year, and the feeling of someone singing to you is the most deeply healing thing. It’s also a spiritual experience. Basically being among others who connect to their heart and the hearts of others is spiritual. I see a kind of universal energy in everything including all people. That also means I judge the challenging people less too. I don’t necessarily have to have them in my life, but I can still have compassion for them.

 I think when you view the world that way it is definitely less scary. So it’s a work in progress for me still but feel like I’m moving towards a less fearful, more peaceful existence.

[Eagle Ray]

Dear dig,

Thank you for sharing those beautiful memories about your Dad. I was able to sit with my Dad as he passed and Mum immediately afterwards, and it is the most profound experience and you just feel unconditional love. 

I agree that for others boundaries are automatically there because they were taught and had good boundaries modelled for them from the start. I think when you are brought up to feel worthy and of value it’s much easier to set boundaries.

The description of that experience with your friend reminds me so much of many situations I’ve had with friends where I was afraid to say no or set a boundary around the amount of contact. Instead I would exhaust myself trying to do everything the other person wanted and always respond positively to them even when they were stressing me out! I just didn’t know how to do otherwise. I’m so glad you were able to set the boundary with the friend and the work situation too. Well done and it does feel so empowering doesn’t it! Often we think the sky will fall in but it doesn’t happen, and things actually get better not worse.

I like the Peter Levine idea about handling the imaginary barking dog. Owning your space is so important. It feels awesome when you actually do it. You will see animals in the wild owning their space vocalising and demonstrating this is my space, back off! In fact, Peter Levine’s whole approach that he’s developed over the decades has been inspired by observing how animals manage in the wild. He noticed how well and quickly their nervous systems recover from trauma compared with us humans, at least in wild settings. This is when they often have daily threats to their existence from predators and rivals. Animals in zoos and captivity start to show a lot of the chronic stress symptoms humans get, which I feel illustrates how we’ve become somewhat removed from what’s healthy and balanced for us at times. We’ve become removed from intuitive understandings of how to rebalance our nervous systems which seems to have a lot to do with the separation of mind and body, and furthermore a loss of the spiritual as well. Like Tony suggests above, spiritual connection can play a big role in feeling safe, and the healthiest and happiest people seem to be the ones where mind, body and spirit are all integrated and in flow with one another.

Really happy you are finding your inner Grrrrr too 🐯🙂