Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

[Tams20]

I’ve been struggling with depression lately and have been experiencing some very dark moods. I haven’t missed a day of work or caring for my family, even though I barely hold it together some days and my weekends are usually spent recovering. I’ve been on SSRIs for a few months that I feel aren’t working that well and have also scheduled a review with my GP this week. Am also going to ask for counselling just so that I can talk to someone about my issues, as I am not one for burdening friends and family with my problems.

Just recently I have started fantasising about a particular method of suicide. Quite graphic thoughts and planning (I won’t go into detail) that has gotten me so concerned that I now take steps so that I physically couldn’t do it. I don’t actually believe that I could do it, I don’t actually think that I am suicidal, but on some days I feel quite reckless about it, almost as if I’m daring myself to do it. I almost enjoy the thought of it. After the urge has passed I think if my kids and I feel like the worst person in the world.

Is this a common thing for when you’re depressed? Is it perhaps related to the medication?

Thanks.

[Birdy77]

Hey Tams,

You said "I had the opportunity for a close friendship and I've thrown it away". But your friend said she'd give you another chance, she said be kind to yourself, things will be ok, and you said things have been ok since, if a little wary ... these things all tell me that you have not thrown it away and the opportunity is still there.

It might just feel a bit fragile for a lil bit, maybe take her word for it "things will be ok"?

Does she understand that you're still working out med dosages etc? It may help her to know that you snapping at her was probs that your levels aren't quite right yet? (But you may not wish to share that with her).

Mistakes happen, you have apologised ... you might both feel a bit weird for a while, but if she's a friend worth having, she won't hold it against you forever.

🌻birdy

[White_Rose]

Hello Tams

I am so sorry to know you and your friend have clashed a little. Trying to work out marriage problems is very different to managing a MI. They both involve pain, sadness and loss of trust which makes them sound similar. The big difference is managing a rocky marriage is under the control of the couple concerned. They can choose to do whatever it takes to repair the damage. Or choose not to do so. And they are not bedevilled with a MI which can make a mess of everything.

You are battling anxiety, depression and bipolar 2. For you, and probably others, it is a huge load. The bipolar is new to you and does not sit easily with most people for some time after diagnosis. To some extent you have no control over what is happening to you. That's why we go to mental health professionals and it's not as easy as seeing a marriage guidance counsellor.

It may well be your friend has become very happy with the repair of her marriage and wants to enjoy feeling like that. I'm sure I would. However it's hard for you when you are still struggling. It's easy when it's a mutual support but one giving support to another is more difficult. Try and cut her some slack and look for other supports. You are not as well as you would like but you have been able to see and understand what happened with your friend and learn from it. You are on the recovery road even if you slip occasionally.

It's a good idea generally to have several people you can talk to about what is happening in your life. One contact is not always available and can leave you feeling upset and ignored. Once you get over your disappointment you will realise you were not being dumped, so to speak. I know the feeling that X who usually supports me is not available and the often crushing disappointment I experience. Not nice, but this one of the situations that does not pop up so much in your friend's marriage counselling.

I have berated myself about "bothering" others who are clearly fed up talking to me. It is not true and after the emotion has settled down I can see it for what it is. I have worked hard in this area and it's beginning to be more comfortable to accept someone is not available. I have a friend who I have supported for many years and it seems to me she will require support for many years as all her family have died. It was therefore upsetting when I wanted to talk that after my first remark she said Oh dear and went straight back to her problems.

Mary

[Tams20]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your prompt replies! I'm not normally someone who lets down their guard, which I did with this particular friend. I feel a bit vulnerable now, a bit stupid? I've pretty much decided to put the mask back on with my friends and just rely on my partner (who is not always supportive, depends on his mood and whether he decides to take what I'm saying personally and make it all about him) and my Mum. Maybe the odd friend who asks how I'm going will get an honest response. It was a bit of a failed experiment.

Tim - I've told her that the old me wouldn't behave like that, but she wasn't really friends with the 'old me'. We were playing soccer together and got on well, but that was the extent of it. We've become good friends since my downhill spiral started... She has previously asked if it's OK for her to tell me when I'm getting out of line and I said yes, please do. I think that's what she was doing when she said 'you're out of order' but I obviously had pushed her too far. But I think we will be ok. And I can understand you being suspicious of your friend's motives, I probably would too... perhaps give him the benefit of the doubt?

Birdy - Yes I think things will be OK. It's been a week since it happened and we're still friends. Just a bit different to before, which may not be a bad thing as we were always talking about problems and issues and not about positive things. When we catch up now hopefully it can be fun and not for mutual whinging and 'counselling'. She does know about the medication, not full details, but that it has been changed a few times and hasn't settled yet. She has another bipolar friend so has some understanding of the condition.

Mary - I am so glad that her marriage counselling appears to have worked, I was encouraging her to do it and take it seriously, even when she was adamant that she was going to leave him anyway. She had a very tough childhood and I think the individual sessions helped her a lot. I don't think very highly of her husband and I think the counsellor focused far too much on the easy wins, her having to change, rather than him, but I keep those opinions to myself. A less than ideal marriage (such as mine) is better than struggling on your own when there are children involved. I am happy for her. I do have a few others that I can talk to, one in particular has been a great support person. My friend can get a bit jealous that I turn to the other friend for support, which is interesting.

Tams

[Tams20]

Mary,

Further to what I said above, I'm actually wondering how much support I did actually get from her, and how much of it was like your friend - a bit of a token 'oh dear' effort, knowing that I find it difficult to talk about things and won't push it, listening just enough so that she could find an opportunity to talk about herself again. I thought at the time it was great, because I had opened up a bit and wow someone was listening, but after the proper support I have received from my other friend I don't think it was good at all... Just humouring me to keep me on the hook so I was there as her sounding board. The conversations were often one-sided and since she hasn't needed me to whinge to we've dropped off in contact quite a bit. But that has been good, because I've reconnected with a lot of my old friends and it has been really nice. Much healthier contact, much easier and more natural - no second-guessing what the other is thinking or over-analysing every situation, taking offence to what each other is saying or not saying.

Her 'it's starting to affect me and my family' statement was strange, because my outburst was out of the blue and things had been good before that. Not sure how I had been affecting her family? How has her spending time with me affected her and her family, when she was chosing to do it? How is that my fault? If she is guilty because she has spent time with me instead of her family she is the only one to blame for that.

Actually, now that I think about it, I'm pretty annoyed. I really do think I've been used. Will be interesting to see what happens when her marriage deteriorates again (only a matter of time) because I may not be there to help her this time. She'll be fine though, she'll talk to anyone who will listen. Hopefully the next person won't be a desperate loser like me, who confuses it as friendship.

Tams

[Birdy77]

Hi Tams,

It's really good that you've had time to reflect on this situation and reassess how you feel about it all.

It is a teeny teensy bit ironic that she said that she said she was feeling like she was back in high school again and is "too old for this"... this is the grown woman who gets jealous when you talk to and seek support from your other good friend. Oh, totes mature! 🤣

🌻birdy

[Croix]

Dear Tams~

You said: a desperate loser like me, who confuses it as friendship.

I simply could not let this bit of silliness go by. You are an awful long way from being a loser. True you have problems, but you face them, think about them and takes steps to remedy them as well as anyone could.

So where is the loser?

Now as for friendship, there are no convenient labels on people saying 'potential moderately steadfast friend level 3' or such. We explore each other and sometimes rarely, if we are lucky, we find a friend. Normally we find acquaintances.

Anger, please don't dismiss it as an aberration to always be apologized for and for ever avoided. For people like me, a sort of even milder mannered Clark Kent (but without his assertiveness or alter ego) those rare bursts of anger has been a means to set matters to rights, to let other know my feelings, to establish boundaries. Things I'd not normally do. I may feel sheepish afterwards but there are all those positive results.

I'm only telling you things I suspect you realize anyway, BP2 or no BP2 you are a capable person, and any friendship you offer it to be valued

Croix

[Tams20]

Hello everyone,

Hope your day is going OK? Weather is lovely here in Sydney, if this is winter then I'll be happy! Could do with a drop of rain though....

Birdy - I know right? The irony hasn't escaped me... I'm actually having a bit of fun at the moment, spending more time with mutual friends, because I know she would be feeling it. I'm not manipulating the situation, they were my friends before she came along. It's time that I otherwise may have spent with her but she's cut me off - I'm not going to stay at home and cry into my pillow! She's welcome to join us but I know she won't ask because of her insecurities and I'm no longer going to chase her. I know I shouldn't enjoy it but I can't help it. It's the 'you're affecting the family' bit that got me. I haven't been stalking her (have never been to her house), I haven't been calling at all hours of the night, I'm friendly with her husband and kids. That statement just wasn't fair. I'm actually deeply offended by it.

Croix - Thanks for calling in to ever-so-gently tell me off for my silliness, in that mild-mannered 'Clark Kent' style of yours 🙂 ..... I agree that most of the time when we explore friendships we find acquaintances, I have a lot of good casual friends who are great company when I see them but I don't feel as if I could open up to them about anything. They serve a purpose in my life though and I'd be lost without them. I thought this woman was something more than that - which is why I feel so stupid. I totally misread the situation, which is not something I normally do... if anything, I usually read it the other way, where I assume that there is less going on than there actually is. I normally hold myself at a distance and very few people are allowed to get close to me.

This was a bit of an experiment in letting people in, and it was a complete failure. I doubt I'll be making the same mistake again. And now this woman knows far too much about me, as I do about her, and I find it uncomfortable. She did say once that she's not 'best friend' material, that she tried it once and is no longer is in contact with the person, so I suppose that should tell me that the issue is with her, not me. But I still feel like an idiot.

Nice try, Clark, but on this occasion even your alter-ego would struggle to bring me around.

Tams

[Guest8901]

Dear Tams,

Just wanted to let you know that I have been following your thread silently of late. I'm sorry to read of this so-called friend of yours and her reaction. I agree that the 'friendship' seemed to be a very one-sided thing, and its likely a good thing you found out now.

I was going to write a meaningful response and had it all ready to go in my head, but now its gone. Just like that ... gone! I'm sorry, its been a difficult few days. One think I will say is to not give up on forming a closer friendship with someone. You were going through a difficult time when you opened up to this other friend, perhaps a little vulnerable. Or in your own words 'not quite yourself'. Next time it will be different. Dont close yourself off because this attempt didnt work out the way you would have liked. Friendships are a very difficult thing. Says me, who has no close friends! Perhaps I'm not a good one to advise?

For now, it will have to be enough to let you know I care, I'm reading along, I support you and .. I think you're wonderful. 🌹

Amanda

[Tams20]

Hi Amanda,

Thanks popping in to support me and for your kind words. My feelings are hurt and I’m bouncing between sadness, anger and self-pity. I’m not sure whether to try to ignore her completely (defensive measure) or to try to maintain some kind of friendship (which still leaves me a bit vulnerable). Haven’t decided yet. Mutual friends make it a bit tricky.

Please don’t feel like you need to follow my thread though, I know you are going through an awful lot at the moment and I don’t want to take up any of your time - please focus on yourself! My problems are so minor by comparison.

Tams x

[Tams20]

Hi everyone,

Well I have decided to give this friendship one last try. After a fairly good week I was feeling quite 'together' yesterday. I was having a productive day working from home and also organising things for my daughter's birthday... One of those days when I feel like I can achieve anything! (I used to have a lot of those days, once upon a time...) My friend is between jobs so I knew she'd be around and I suggested catching up for a coffee. She was keen so we met up. First time it was just the two of us since my indiscretion and it was fine. It was nice actually, both of us stayed within 'safe' conversation territory and we had a good chat. Nothing heavy, just a normal chat between good friends. As we were leaving she gave me a big hug which was lovely. As someone who never liked hugs, always felt awkward about them, I really appreciate them now.

So here I am again, back on the merry-go-round.... am going to keep my cool this time around. Lower my expectations, spread my time around between different friends. No impulsive comments or text messages, will 'sleep' on everything before I say it. Will be hard for me, but I'll give it a try! Will try to adopt that approach with everyone, keep it calm, think before I speak, don't try to second-guess everyone's motives....

The good news is that my meds seem to be starting to take effect, I'm starting to feel more stable. I've got another appointment with my psychiatrist next Thurs and am expecting her to increase my dose again, here's hoping that helps me even more. I'm not sure about asking about speaking to a therapist though... I'd like to have some ongoing support to address some of my personality quirks, in conjunction with my meds, but I can't really justify paying a psychiatrist for this. Thankfully I can afford it, but it seems like a waste of her time when I could be speaking with a psychologist instead. We haven't really spoken about anything much in the two appointments I've had, she's been focused on getting my meds right... I'm not really sure how these things are supposed to go?

I was considering seeing a psychologist who specialises in BP and also does couples counselling, so I can drag my husband along and get him involved. He will probably resist but it's worth a try!

Tams