I just feel like i have no chance..

[HamSolo01]

A bit of context: im 23, studying full time and i work a little bit on the side as a tutor.

Ive been dealing with this crap for 4 years now and it hasn't exactly gotten any better.

As a result of depression and social anxiety ive had no relationships, no girlffriends, no sex, no nothing. Increasingly over time friends are starting up relationships and enjoying feeling desired. I tried tinder once, and actually met a girl who as it turned it out had a fair bit in common with me but because of my depression and anxieties i was a total mess. I screwed it up.. That was just over a year ago. I still haven't been able to get over it. It was the first time i had actually ever been on anything (even though she maintained it wasnt really a date). The only other time before that was with a girl i spoke to at uni and got friendly with. She was insane. Told me mental health wasnt even a thing.. then she just ignored me and that friendship ended in the dumps. I feel gross, less of a man and feel like i will just be on the scrap heap. Whats worse is that it just gets harder and harder as you get older.

If i have another person tell me i must have it good because im a tall guy, relatively good looking (apparently i am according to some, yet i dont think so.. or else i wouldnt be failing so much) and that "the girls" must like me i may punch them in the face. It's warped too.. when people compliment you on your appearance your immediate response should not be anger... but if people actually knew the hurt and pain... i feeel like i should be out there... or else im just gonna regret my young years..

I just feel so alone. My depression has creeped up on me and my anxiety is through the roof. No use talking to my family.. they haven't learned anything. Im not going back to hospital. Its boring. It gets in the way. I feel like i dont belong there...

Anyway. Feels a bit better to say that here.

[HamSolo01]

I'll tell you something Azzdog.

I was repulsed by what I used to look like. Disgusted even. Even know I still cringe when I see old photos.

After having sorted myself out a bit more and worked out too I was kinder to myself. NOT because I thought I deserved it after looking better, but because I realised I was just not taking care of myself beforehand. I took better care of myself and then realised I am deserving of that anyway. So I keep a steady fitness commitment without wanting to become a freak. After all, the mind, soul and heart are what we have all throughout our days. Our bodies get old.

Which brings me onto sex haha.

I read a really good article on Quilette the other day: Consent Isn’t Everything and Sex Is Not Like Tea
 

It basically analyses hook up culture and how it denigrates us. I think it really reduces all of us to bits of meat. Having said that, I still hold a liberal attitude towards sex. I guess I just realise I have the ability to choose when and in what manner I can do it. So I accept society's liberal attitude, but I also exercise my own choices in all this. In the last six months I went on three dates. None went further. But I am happy for the experience. It was just a learning curve

I don't think changing society's view is the way to go about it though. I think developing your own view, cultivating self respect and just getting by is the important part. While those around me are having sex and going full speed, they are welcome to. Maybe one day I might? I'm not sure.

I'm just not interested in what everyone has to say.

I'm not even sure I answered your question. But I think there is heaps of room for more discussion here so that's good!

[HamSolo01]

Also Azzdog, I was just watching an interview from the Intellectual Dark Web - which is like a group of public intellectuals who talk about heaps of things - some of them contentious (hence the phraseology of dark web)

Never forget that insecurity is a powerful marketing tool. I think sex falls into this category too. If I am perfectly honest, I think that sex is made into nothing more than an outlet - like playing a videogame when you are bored. Just go and have sex. That's a bigger issue at play I think and this is possibly where a good deal of the frustration and well founded beliefs you have about the way people are treating sex can be found. Make people feel insecure about who they are, to the point where they start questioning their own worth as a person. It's cruel (how we solve that I'm not overly sure about) but that is also a topic for another time haha. It's political.

The general point I am making however, is that I think you might need to ask yourself why and where a lot of these expectations are coming from? If they are yours, then okay so be it. Then ask yourself why you have them, ask yourself why you value it so much? I'm a firm believer in the individual making choices for themselves and I think this sort of thing applies here too.

What is it you value most of all? Why do you think that sex, relationships and intimacy are on your mind at the moment? Do you feel ready for a relationship but just don't have a significant other atm? Do you just want sex for the sake of impressing others?

There are a lot of questions. I think they are important ones to answer prior to figuring out what should be worth worrying about.

[Azzdog]

Hey Mitch,

That's the way I look at it as well. It is just a narrative that some espouse to make themselves look better. I think a lot of people are quite insecure about what they have done with their lives and try to highlight really vapid parts of themselves to make themselves think they are living a decent life.

Take yesterday for example. I don't know where you live but here in Melbourne we have some of the worst mainstream radio channels in existence. I don't normally listen to them but I have to when I am at work. Yesterday, all they literally talked about was sex. What accents were sexy, relationships, the act of sex, seriously its all they talk about. How boring must their lives be if that's all they talk about? In an ideal world it shouldn't be that big of a deal but society makes it a big deal. It really makes me annoyed to be honest because I don't think about it as much as others think. It is just when society talks about it so much I get obsessed over it. It doesn't help that I have OCD as well lol.

I don't normally compliment someone over their appearance at all. I only do it to people who I really care about. I don't do it people I don't know or haven't met. I think it is quite superficial to be honest because it is just judging someone on appearance.

I have decided to work on myself a bit more as well. I am trying really hard to eat better and start working out more regularly. My studies finish soon so I'll have more time to work on that. We need to look after ourselves because, you re right, we deserve it.

I tend to hold a liberal attitude towards sex. In fact, I would describe it as a "I don't really care" kind of attitude. I am not interested in other peoples sex lives because I think it is quite superficial anyway. It isn't something you can put on your resume and having a vibrant sex life doesn't give you much of a leg to stand on. I don't look down on it I just have my own values and principles for which I stand for.

[Azzdog]

I tend to think people think of sex in a flippant way because they have had it ingrained in society for so long that they almost take it for granted. Thats how I see it. I think people view marriage in the same way. It really doesn't happen to everyone unfortunately.

Sex is just another advertising tool to make others insecure most definitely. I was doing a subject at university where we looked at the advertising industry and its marketing practices. One article we read posited that the advertising industry should be abolished because it is not selling products based on merit anymore. Like, there was an add selling the ice cream magnum and it used sex as the selling point. What has sex got to do with ice cream? If you can't sell the ice cream based on why its different to other competing brands then maybe it just isn't that good.

To answer your questions. If I am to be brutally honest with myself right now, I am not ready for a relationship. I'm just not. I'm not in the right headspace and I don't feel good enough about myself to not have my insecurities projected out so much. The expectations are coming from society and I'm just impressionable enough to let it get to me.

I value good, honest, meaningful connections with anybody. I value having conversations with good people about interesting topics. Sex, relationships and intimacy are on my mind because they are everywhere. I am in a vulnerable state right now where I don't even have a functioning social life, let alone a potential romantic connection with someone. I am not so interested in sex but I more interested in having a meaningful connection, that is what I value most of all.

[HamSolo01]

Narrative is such an interesting phenomenon I think. The stories and lessons we tell ourselves.

Mainstream radio is like that. Personally, I listen to Triple J or Triple M. If I'm in the car that's what I listen to. I can't stand pop music stations with "personalities" who don't know much lol.

You know one of the most attractive things I find in a girl is when she is career driven, focuses on being a better person, and tries her best to live by a moral code. It's just such a refreshing thing to see, shows that she is grounded too - not trying to impress other people.

That's awesome that you are trying to work on yourself as well. That's probably the best investment you can make in the long term - always pays good dividends.

See I agree with you. I don't care about other's sex lives. It's weird to be interested in that if I'm perfectly honest.

Also, 100% agree with you here: "I tend to think people think of sex in a flippant way because they have
had it ingrained in society for so long that they almost take it for granted. That's how I see it. I think people view marriage in the same way. It really doesn't happen to everyone unfortunately."

I think selling products based solely on merit would be interesting because then we'd see a different type of market. There'd be greater competition in some industries and virtually none in others. Yeah I think I saw that Magnum ad. Some ads are weird.

Yeah, I think I fall into the same category in relation to relationships. I think "if not for love, then not at all". Call me old fashioned. There tends to be some sort of vague expectation (from whom I don't know) that at some age you just "have a relationship" in the same way that "you have a license to drive" or just "have facebook/twitter".

Guess the same can be said for virginity too. It's weird being a sexual liberal but still a virgin haha. I dunno, I kind of like it to be honest. My view on virginity is that you do it when you are ready - simple. I'm not a big believer in the "guy who gets many women = player and the girl that gets heaps of guys = promiscuous". People's sex lives are their own business. Yet, the fascination with other's sex lives is weird man.

It feels like that might happen when I visit a mate in the US lol. But who knows. My view on sex is like my view on lots of things - when you are ready and willing to, then do it. Simple really. I'm not sure why people don't get it?

[HamSolo01]

I think part of why people like to talk about other's sex lives can actually be pinned down to psychological condition. In a sort of "Pavlov's Dog" type scenario, where certain topics illicit a certain response from people. There's a lot to be said about Fruedian projection here too. Basically, people start projecting their fears, anxieties and perceived faults onto other people - the classic one being when someone says a person is gay, they do it because they themselves are trying to hide their own sexuality. That sort of logic probably takes place on the topic of sex - people feel anxious, intimidated or bothered about talking about sex and so they end up projecting their own anxieties onto others.

You know I think if you take pride in the fact that you are a virgin by choice people will respect you. I can't help but think that if they don't then whose the insecure one? does that make sense?

Interesting how you noted that the expectations are coming from society BUT that you also said you are impressionable enough to let it get to you. I wonder, given this amount of introspection into yourself, if you could potentially resist anymore pressure from society? If one is aware of the pressure they receive from some external source, I think that the person can develop ways in which to forego that sort of pressure. Don't get me wrong, I do know what you mean in relation to that though. Wouldn't want to dismiss the effects of that pressure at all. I've been there man.

I think a healthy, functioning social life is your first goal by the sounds of it. My first goal was stable, meaningful work. That had now evolved into moving to another country lol.

Either way, there are pressing concerns that need attending. Once we start dealing with these I think the relationships thing can start being dealt with.

[Azzdog]

I don't even listen to mainstream radio anymore. I made that decision a long time ago. I have an auxiliary cable that I got for my birthday in August. I just plug my iPhone in and listen to the music. Or I may have a cd I just keep in the car for a week. It was a really wise decision on my part.

That's exactly what I find attractive in a girl as well. It is great to hear that in our superficial mainstream culture which emphasises the things that don't really matter in the long run.

It's weird no matter who you are. I find it weird as well particularly. I may sound naive here but I really don't get the obsession. Is that naive? It just doesn't stack up to me. Maybe because it is so perverse in our society and I am just over it.

"I think selling products based solely on merit would be interesting because then we'd see a different type of market. There'd be greater competition in some industries and virtually none in others." I think we would also see a market that is held to account by the consumers. Selling things based on merit is not as exciting as selling a magnum ad based on sex but it would tell you why you should buy it over other competing ice creams.

Yeah I feel a bit old fashioned about relationships as well. I think also the prevailing notion is that somehow at our age we should really be married by now and have a house of our own. I'm still living at home with my parents because its the best I can do right now. It's too expensive to move out and it does hurt my self-esteem. I don't want to live with my parents forever. I know they can't look after me forever.

To be honest I don't really care about how many people have others slept with, regardless of gender. It really doesn't make you a better or worse person because of it. However, when I hear guys talking about their sex lives it makes it sound like conquests where the women are just tools. It makes me so sick to hear that and I wonder if these women would date these guys if they heard what they really thought about them.

[james1]

hey people,

I love the conversation going here. It's so important to be airing our thoughts because, I think especially for guys, it's just not the typical conversation that happens. It seems to all be football and hot chicks, but I think most guys have another side which is just crushed by society so either we're silenced, or we just silence ourselves.

Anyway, the only thing I wanted to add to the conversation is that I think most people, possibly us included, are more tied in with social expectations and pressures than we perhaps should be, and also more so than we want to admit to ourselves. I mean, hell, we're sitting here talking about it as if it matters, while saying it doesn't matter. Seems a bit ironic, hey?

But then again, it's very hard to define ourselves without knowing and relating to society in some way, so it makes perfect sense too.

Still, if I had to name some people who truly didn't care about what society thought, it'd be some older person who literally has no idea what else is happening in the world and couldn't care less. They're just content - or not - to deal with their own life, their own personality and personal integrity. And I think there's something noble in that which we haven't gotten to yet as we find issues with society and sometimes try to fix them.

My grandfather is like that. He doesn't know much about the world outside a 30km radius in China. But if you are a friend of his, you know you can always count on him.

James

[HamSolo01]

Hey all

I think not caring about what society thinks about you doing something is quite different from having a disregard for other people. One can be caring without caring what others think about your life choices.

Perhaps this too has been forgotten in this day and age?

Chronic lack of respect for the individual as someone who can make their own choices is abscent too. That extends itself to heaps of areas.

It really is a "non-issue" when it comes down to it. It's an issue if we let it get to us THAT much. That's what the incel movement is all about. Making them just as bad as the people they criticise.. Don't even get me started on them lol.

Gotta be honest, the guys that boast about their hookups seem to me to be insecure. It's such an odd thing to boast about. I think denigrates your self esteem too.

This is probably why it is important to have good friends. People you can relate to on a decent, human level. Not a competitor level where you have to put others down etc.

Anyways. I could go on forever lol

[james1]

Oh it's interesting that you bring up respect. It's something I've been thinking about a lot recently in the context of generalisations.

I was reading about incels a lot recently, because I'm super interested in how that social environment developed, and I've realised that we (us and the media) generalise a lot about incels and treat them as just one homogenous group. But really, there's a lot of difference within incels and they are just individuals who are connected by their sexual frustration, but then have very individual feelings about these. Some feel entitled, some feel like they don't deserve it. Some hate women, some just wish they could have a respectful conversation with a woman.

The guys you talk about, the so called "pick up artists"...oof, there are so many individuals in that group that clearly show no respect to anybody and in my vindictive mind, don't deserve much back. But, at the same time, I know many in those circles who actually never do anything wrong and are just there to (misguidedly) try to learn how to be confident. Unfortunately for them, they get lumped with the bad guys and I wonder if we contribute to their disillusionment by treating them all the same.

Respect from others is so important to our mental health for obvious reasons, and it goes both ways. There are so many people in society who we do not like because of their behaviour. I guess the (rhetorical) question I have is what level of respect do and should we give them? My own observation is we give them very little respect, but perhaps they deserve a voice of their own; not one that is attributed to their associates, and not one which we assume them to be.

Anyway, it's got very little to do with mental health, except that I think if we can improve our relations with people generally, by ensuring that respect goes both ways whatever their and our personal beliefs, perhaps it might help us be happier and better supported when we are not in a great place.