I just feel like i have no chance..

[HamSolo01]

A bit of context: im 23, studying full time and i work a little bit on the side as a tutor.

Ive been dealing with this crap for 4 years now and it hasn't exactly gotten any better.

As a result of depression and social anxiety ive had no relationships, no girlffriends, no sex, no nothing. Increasingly over time friends are starting up relationships and enjoying feeling desired. I tried tinder once, and actually met a girl who as it turned it out had a fair bit in common with me but because of my depression and anxieties i was a total mess. I screwed it up.. That was just over a year ago. I still haven't been able to get over it. It was the first time i had actually ever been on anything (even though she maintained it wasnt really a date). The only other time before that was with a girl i spoke to at uni and got friendly with. She was insane. Told me mental health wasnt even a thing.. then she just ignored me and that friendship ended in the dumps. I feel gross, less of a man and feel like i will just be on the scrap heap. Whats worse is that it just gets harder and harder as you get older.

If i have another person tell me i must have it good because im a tall guy, relatively good looking (apparently i am according to some, yet i dont think so.. or else i wouldnt be failing so much) and that "the girls" must like me i may punch them in the face. It's warped too.. when people compliment you on your appearance your immediate response should not be anger... but if people actually knew the hurt and pain... i feeel like i should be out there... or else im just gonna regret my young years..

I just feel so alone. My depression has creeped up on me and my anxiety is through the roof. No use talking to my family.. they haven't learned anything. Im not going back to hospital. Its boring. It gets in the way. I feel like i dont belong there...

Anyway. Feels a bit better to say that here.

[BballJ]

Hi HamSolo01,

I 100% agree the stigma that comes along with male virginity is quite intense... if we haven't lost it by a certain age we are made to feel like outcasts where if a female has not lost her virginity it is a sign of her being a "good girl" - Just like mental health as you alluded too - the stigmas are it all are always incorrect and the way they are perceived is just as bad. I was exactly like you through high school, never had a girlfriend, never was liked by any girls, had friends who I liked but they never liked me back so I get how you are feeling. It is crap I understand that and I can see how it would relate to depression - it literally makes you feel so low, I have and had self esteem issues as well. The religion side is something I don't tend to discuss on here but I can see how it has affected you too. Sorry if this is a double up, have you bought this whole sex issue up with your counsellor at all? Just curious to see what they have said if you have.

I know it's a tough day but try and keep your head up.

My best,

Jay

[HamSolo01]

Hey Quercus

Thanks for sharing your story about your friend and you.

I like how you are able to draw on your experience (the good and bad) in order to make a point about life. It really helps 🙂

I feel angry whenever i hear about guys mistreating women. I think this comes from being raised in a good home, where my younger sister and mum have been awesome. Whenever i hear guys talking about women like meat it makes me cringe a bit. Plus i remember many female friends too.

I fear that this attitude will shoot myself in the foot. How can a guy like me actually get anywhere with girls when he is isolated socially, but getting help.. making plans for his life but having to change them.. all this while i am at "my prime" as a young, relatively healthy guy? THATS where i get depressed.. thats what triggers ideation.

In the past ive noticed girls have looked at me. Weirdly, i think initially this caused me anxiety but ive begun to realise that this might be because i look appealing to them (even saying that i get cringey because i worry it will go to my head)

Yesterday i set myself the task of FINALLY trying to talk to this girl who i thought was gorgeous (brown hair, brown eyes, tall, studies hard) because i had my eye on her the whole semester. Even though i had dropped the subject i thought of at least trying to see if i could. The walk to the lecture hall was hard. I actually felt sooo nervous you see. My plan was to find where she was and sit next to her.. last week i tried this but then realised she happened to be sitting elsewhere. Funnily enough.. where i would've sat anyway. So i sat on the same aisle and i noticed her look at me for a few seconds.. It was strange.

Anyways i got there yesterday and sure enough she wasnt there. I had to laugh at myself really... Getting all worked up over something that simple.. But to me it felt like i conquered some of my anxiety. I could've avoided it and then regretted it forever but i soldiered through. Now i know i tried. I'll likely never see that girl again and be presented with an opportunity.. and that is what really annoys me. This is just a recurring theme.

The same thing happens all the time. I get presented with opportunities but am tio afraid to take them. Could've sparked up a conversation with a girl in a lift at uni once because i recognised that she pressed a different button to what i did.. didnt do it.. too scared. she was even looking at me as well..

will continue the rest in a post

[HamSolo01]

Virginity is disdained in mainstream culture i would say. But mainstream culture is full of problems. But its also how one bonds with their peers.. so it sucks to be caught in the middle. I think i still hold onto some notion of saving sex for someone special. Not marriage, but just someone you are romantically involved with - like i could've been on many occassions -_-

Evolution kind of made this the case i reckon, primary function of sex (the raw desire) is procreation. Considering we've grown out of that its become an act of enjoyment which is totally fine. But maybe im not cut out to be one of "the dudes". I think im more sentimental than that.

The trick for me personally is to take pride in that decision - that is who i am and if people think its weird then great.. i dont care. But the problem itself still exists... I have little sekf esteem and worry about girls being turned off by my virginity.

I just want to enjoy the happiness and security of romance. I just want to enjoy finding out about a girl i find attractive.. but it just doesnt happen.. all because of anxiety and depression..

I hate seeing girls get mistreated. I go to uni and the colleges there have a lot of issues there with this crap. I feel sorry for any girl who goes through that. Its disgusting, they shouldnt be made to feel like they have to "put out" for guys.. They even have games where virgin girls are 'auctioned off'. Its legal because its consensual but its group mentality and over excitement gone wrong. Google it. Youll see what im talking about. Glad i dont reside in those places... Where is the world heading?

I kind of hope that if i do manage to get a gf at some point ill make it clear to her that i want her to feel safe and respected. No one's gonna treat my girl badly haha. You mess with her you deal with me. (I know she can stand up for herself but i still want to show i care haha) i feel like in 10 years i will need to given how regressive masculinity has become...

One can dream...

You know i reckon i worry too much about coming across as a creep considering many asshole guys hit on women.. im not an asshole but i worry i might seem like a creep who cant talk properly.

There's a lot of baggage that this carries for me and i will bring it up with my psych this afternoon. I planned on being honest so i will continue to be.

Anyways. Thanks again. It is helping 🙂

[james1]

Hey Mitch,

I hope you don't mind if my post is a bit convoluted. I'm trying to reply to both of your posts in one.

Also, in case I dip into my unfeeling philosopher brain, I'll say it upfront: I think you're doing a really good thing by sounding these out here and bringing them to your psych. Like you said, these thoughts can often represent a heap of baggage which weighs us down.

Okay!

I liked that you're trying to understand why you might value sex so much outside of social pressures: is it a romantic notion? Does it come from evolution? Is it a rejection of religious beliefs?

Can you use these secondary thoughts about what you believe to have a more useful discussion with yourself and your psych? So whenever you get trapped in the cycle of, 'I'm a virgin; I am unworthy", challenge it by doing exactly what you've done above. Why do I think this and hence what are my real values?

You said you're more sentimental than a pure evolutionary explanation and it should be for someone special - maybe not marriage, but with someone you connect with. These are good thoughts to clarify what you believe is the place of sex and relationships in happiness. I think I'm the same as you and I also can't be one of "the dudes", but I'm okay with that. I definitely have beliefs which are caught up in that stuff, but the only way to get rid of these beliefs is to first understand where they come from, then to challenge them. I think you're doing this well - but it will take time.

Your other point about how you approach women...yeah that one's a pretty steep learning curve. I've read quite a few posts about that in the last year and, honestly, it's one of those ones that leaves everybody scratching their heads. It's repeated everywhere to "just be yourself" but I find that super unhelpful. And false too. You have to be the best version of yourself, and even then you'll come up against a lot of rejection.

So I honestly think the only rule that is actually useful is to be prepared for rejection. Just as there are many guys you know who are immature, the same thing goes for females. We're just different sexes of the same species. So the honest truth is there aren't many who are compatible and we need to be learn that rejection doesn't come from a place of our own perceived failures. I think you'll find that you're looking for someone very specific too. Don't forget that everyone out there searching didn't only reject you. They rejected a bunch of other guys too.

James

[Quercus]

Hi HamSolo01,

Not sure where to start ☺ You've given me lots of interesting topics. I'll start with this one...

but ive begun to realise that this might be because i look appealing to them (even saying that i get cringey because i worry it will go to my head)

This is a good thing. Yep maybe like James said there will be times that you're wrong and feel like an idiot. But it's better than always wondering what if. What if she was interested? What if. The joy of regret. Being able to recognise that you are a person who is appealing in some way and have something to offer another is a huge step.

There's something appealing about quiet self confidence and self assurance. My husband is like this. He values compliments from people he values and cares about. Otherwise he couldn't care less what people think. I love it. I notice people are drawn to him because he does not want or need their approval.

I told him once I secretly wish for attention when we are out because I want him to feel like his wife is desirable and to make him proud. He looked at me like I was nuts. Why would you care about that? Do you think I would have married you if I didn't think you were attractive? Interesting? Worthwhile? I don't care what they think... It's what I think that matters. I love remembering that. That is the true measure of a man in my mind.

So good on you HamSolo01. The only people who's opinion about you matters are the people who's opinions you choose to value.

So what if you're a virgin? There may be women who are worried by that. Fair enough. Move on and try again. Choose to focus on the fact that you're waiting for someone who you feel is worth becoming intimate with. What's wrong with that? Nothing. Maybe you'll be surprised in the world of casual sex that we live in how many women are revolted by the player attitude so many men have.

I'm glad you see the psych this arvo to talk this through. In the meantime just put yourself out there. Talk to people. If you start a conversation with a woman you like say something like... I find you interesting. I'd like to keep talking to you... Do you want to go get a coffee? If they are interested they'll say yes (or if they're busy will give you their contacts). Of not. What have you lost?

Hopeful for you HamSolo01 ☺.

[HamSolo01]

Hey

thanks to the both of you for your help 🙂

@james - sex outside social pressures exists due to the intimacy element. Thing is, I know of many guys who boast about many girls they have been with. I don't judge them for it - so long as it wasn't forced... this day and age it seems like that's becoming all too common. You can't really blame women for wanting to avoid some guys... seem like they are just thrusting thin air lol. But in all seriousness, that really isn't me. I can see how devoid of meaning or purpose such an endeavour is. It's like they came to a fork in the road as a 16 year old and thought either stick on the course of following natural outlets and let this be a defining thing for their confidence etc. or take a different path that says you are more than just whom you sex it up with. Maybe many guys chose the first option? I dunno. All i know is that for me this WHOLE question comes down to 2 distinctive traits/realities. 1 - I'm curious about the opposite sex and want to find out about them and 2 - i want to be in a committed relationship with a girl whom i trust and she trusts me before i worry about sex and all that it entails. The quandry presented here is that how do i get to such a stage? It's easily said but it's hard to do. The solution is to 'be myself' but this may not seem like enough at times but it's literally all that's needed for the purposes for which I am treating sex and relationships.

I can not ignore the fact that mainstream culture has a lot to do with the way I view myself and the lack of a sexlife i have. Now, why care what mainstream culture says right? Well... I hate not fitting in. But then why would I want to fit in with such a crowd anyway? Surely it's better to be true to my own value but also find comfort in doing so. I think there's a subtle difference in being true to oneself and also being comfortable in doing so. Never be true to yourself out of spite, be true to yourself because its good to be true to yourself. I'm my own man and I make my own choices. Simple. THIS is the trope of the modern male that seems to be missed out I think. Truly an alpha characteristic I would say. However, such an approach isn't conducive to social isolation... because not ALL elements of society value how many times you've had sex. My basic point in all this is rather simple but hard to execute - find comfort and happiness in the simple fact that I'm not getting carried away with what everyone else does to "fit in".

[HamSolo01]

@Quercus - Indeed. Recognising such a fact is an important reality. One friend told me i was hot lol. But the problem when i hear this is that it gets to me and i think "oh great... so i am hot but im not doing anything about it". This is the worst thing I can think. Who said I had to do anything about it anyway? What would that even look like? I'll choose my own life thank you very much haha.

I have attractive assets. That's all it means. The reality is that one's self-worth shouldn't depend on one's attractiveness. Nothing worse than someone who is attractive but 'knows it'... arrogance is off the charts with those people.

I agree. There is something VERY attractive about quiet self-confidence and assurance. Similar to what I just said about people who are attractive. You know i saw an episode of that show called first dates once on the tv.. there was a model who was out with this guy and the guy was over the moon about how attractive she was and couldn't understand why she was single. I could kind of tell she didn't really think she was all that good looking (Which she was haha). It made me think that there's a weird expectation that attractive people MUST be happy or MUST have it easy. If I had a dollar for every person who told me that being tall was something that got me a lot of attention from women then I'd be rich haha. But the thing is I value far more than attractiveness in people - thought it does help haha. It's funny because when i was watching that show i was picking up on subtle things this girl was doing.. she was rather uncomfortable being told she was attractive. I kept thinking this guy should shut up because he was ruining his chance lol. I felt like I could have done a better job had i been there haha.

I like that story you told too. It proves that your husband has his head screwed on properly haha. There is hope. I'm inspired by that 🙂

I do value those close and their opinions and nothing else. Perhaps this is why I'm more interested close connections prior to physical relationships? Perhaps it's why I'm a bit of a romantic too lol.

Being revolted by the player attitude? Good point. I begin to see that this a common thing cropping up.Goes to the heart of what I was talking about earlier that takes place in colleges at uni. Perhaps girls there feel they must do this to be accepted? Sad reality.

Anyway. Curious to hear your thoughts again 🙂

Thanks 🙂

[Spearmint]

I feel like not only are you being hard on yourself for not having those experiences but also because you are frustrated with yourself for tying your happiness to it.

It's okay to want those experiences, it's normal. There is much joy to be had sharing your life with another person (if it's a healthy relationship), not tying your self worth to another person though. But you can be happy being single too and there are many perks being single over being in a relationship. They both have good points.

But I do understand what it's like to be longing for love, more so if you haven't had it before.

I see connection as a human need, you may not die without it like you do water but I still believe it is a need in all of us. Isolation can really mess with your head even if you have good self esteem.

I think you probably are desirable to women and it sounds like you have a lot to offer in terms of who you are inside as a person, please don't go changing yourself to fit into the "player" crowd. Players and sleazy men are one of the biggest off putting traits (well for me anyway) but I suspect for a lot of women.

From what you've said about the kind of man that you are, I can tell you that a lot of women would kill to be with a man like that, especially after being treated like shit by other men. If you find a girl who is a decent human being, you're virginity shouldn't even be an issue.

I think the issue is just making contact, trying to make a connection. Which is hard for a lot of people, I mean it's scary and it makes you feel vulnerable to put yourself out there.

There are probably more women than you realize who feel attracted to you and curious about you but maybe they feel like you come across as not interested? Maybe they are also feeling insecure and shy about talking to you. I think women still like men to make the first move generally.

Sorry to hear about the girl you were going to talk to at uni, Do you think she sat in your seat to try to talk to you as well? Is there any chance you could find her on facebook or something to strike up a conversation?

[Quercus]

Hi HamSolo01,

I did want to reply about your comment about auctions at colleges but had to stop and think how to word it.

I find there is a strange balance. Between being revolted at the player attitude and being drawn to it. I suspect that's why so many young women get drawn into degrading acts like the auctions you mentioned.

I haven't really been able to explain the why of this until I saw a user here mention an author called Athol Kay. I checked out his blog out of curiousity and then ordered some books (haven't arrived yet grr). His ideas are facinating and make some sense to me. There is the pull towards the alpha male. But the need for the beta to feel safe and loved.

Which makes complete sense when I think of my husband. He is alpha to the world. Strong. Capable. Self reliant. Dominant. Sometimes arrogant. But to me he shows the Beta. The tenderness and vulnerability that is just for me. And our children. I was conflicted for a long time because my ex and my husband share similar traits (alpha) and I felt guilty about this. Then I saw these theories and realised it's natural to be attracted to alpha characteristics but the balance between the alpha and beta is what makes the difference. My husband doesn't come from a place of harm. He loves me wants to protect me and build me up.

My ex had none of this. And that's where the player crap is so hurtful. Being young and naieve and vulnerable it's easy to be sucked in by the confidence. But a real man is the balance of confidence and respect.

I suppose that's what I wanted you to consider. It's not a bad thing to be confident or even arrogant. I remember a friend saying she dated a bloke and when they went to bed he shrugged and apologised for the size of himself. She said it frustrated her because until that moment she thought he was gorgeous but his shame in himself was the turn off. So own your virginity, own who you are social anxiety, Star Wars fanatic and all 😊.

If I can own being plant crazy, average looking, socially awkward, previously abused doormat and manage to find love then you know what? You will too. Yes I know you may get angry feeling this is a throwaway comment. But it is not. You don't have to fix anything about yourself HamSolo01. You don't even have to be able to see the good things in yourself. Just put yourself out there, accept failures with grace and keep trying. And try again. 😊

Ahh another saga. Sorry 😊

[HamSolo01]

wow... thank you so much haha.

I feel like what you've said is 100% relevant.

I honestly feel like I do have such qualities. The issue for me is the self-esteem and acceptance thing. This is the primary area of concern and literally everything that goes on in my mind comes back to it and I include all this relationship stuff as well.

It's funny because I really don't give a rats ass about what everyone else thinks but then I kind of do in some way.

I love it when you said this:
"You don't have to fix anything about yourself HamSolo01. You don't even
have to be able to see the good things in yourself. Just put yourself
out there, accept failures with grace and keep trying. And try again."

Because I feel like this is what I am in the process of doing anyway. Bleak moments will hit but as long as I'm winning the war then losing a battle or two doesn't matter. I always use war metaphors because they are the most appropriate for this sort of thing.

Branching out is what I've been trying lately and it's proving moderately okay. These things take time I guess.

I love the example you gave of your friend being frustrated because the shame the guy had in himself was a turn off. I often feel ashamed of my mental health. There's a quote from game of thrones in reference to "weakness" and adversity, "wear it like armor and it can never be used to hurt you".

This is my approach. My own personal war. Only cheap A-holes laugh at that sort of thing.

It's all a process I guess.

Feels like I've made some progress in the past few weeks anyway. New psych will help.

I think I just need to sit back a bit and let the process run itself... stop wanting to control it all. I'm doing what needs to be done and what is good. That's all that matters at this point. Life is not over. I'm not wasting away and I'm definitely not worthless. I'm simply in a time of adversity and all I need to do is accept that. Then I can deal with it in the right way - which I know how to do.

The stuff I spoke about earlier. About being noticed etc.. Great.. whatever... For now I'll remember it but I will not base my esteem in it. I can indeed do this. Owning things is something I've been thinking of lately and I will do this. Own it all. Every last bit.

Thanks again people 🙂