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Animal cruelty, climate change, monoculture...the list goes on.

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I feel hopeless and have decided not to have children because of the state of the world (why would I wish to bring a child into this when I myself, do not like to live here?). Does anyone else feel the same?
230 Replies 230

Thank you everyone for your conversation - you have inspired me. Thank you, Thank you!!!

In my attempt to feel better about life on Earth I have completed a degree in science (environment), become a permaculture teacher, turned vegetarian (on my way to vegan) & plan to raise as many meat-animals as I can to provide to my family & friends (for the purpose of reducing animal cruelty). It reduces my "guilt" footprint - a measure of how much I contribute towards the cycles I believe are immoral. I am also working on "weeds as medicine" - to tackle both animal cruelty in medical testing, autonomy & conservation efforts. It's all very local. But that still leaves the question - to have one, or not to have one....a kid.

When I come out of the depression I often feel - I remember the word "ENLIGHTEN"...what it means to me. It means to understand, to have enough knowledge, to see things clearly, to be able to see/know everything which needs to be seen/known. I am proud I have enlightened myself on the state of the planet (Earth, our home) & the impact/contribution of my life. Maybe, from the enlightened perspective - a kid doesn't seem like such a bad idea after all. To pass this knowledge to a child. But who's - adopted or my own?

When I was writing this reply, I considered using these words: "the BIG question".....referring to having a kid. But then it made me think - isn't the BIG stuff planetary? Yes, it is....plus...No, it isn't - everything starts at the small, local level. I guess considering this -bringing a child up to be aware & caring is the best option for our planet. So, a kid is the answer. Next step...

To have my own or adopt. My own would have my DNA. Am a special - does this mean anything in regards to assisting human's survive on Planet Earth? No, we are all capable beings. Each as equally capable as the next. Looks like adoption is the answer.

Any thoughts on adoption - is it even possible for a single woman in Australia?

Hi Chrissystar (and all),

It’s lovely to see you here again 🙂

I wasn’t quite sure if you were still reading but I’m happy to see you were...

Well done, you! I love your pro-active and dedicated commitment to your cause/conviction (or call it what you like).

I don’t know too much about “weeds as medicine” but it sounds intriguing, and the main point is it’s one of your ways to reduce animal cruelty. I’m guessing compassionate Birdy (another poster on this thread) plus others reading will be smiling 🙂

The “big” question? I suppose the big question is open to interpretation. “Big” is relative, I think but that’s me becoming philosophical rather than practical now. Lol. Anyway, I feel the important part is you have personally decided for yourself and that’s what matters most.

I love how you thought it through and came up with your own answers. It was a real honour that our conversations helped you...thank you.

I personally feel it’s truly beautiful that you have decided to adopt because on top of all the wonderful things you have said, I feel you will be giving a child who, for whatever reason was put up for adoption, a new home that he or she might not otherwise have. That’s special in my opinion 🙂

I must admit that I don’t know too much about the adoption process other than how it’s not always easy to adopt... That being said, I suppose a lot of worthwhile things in life aren’t easy.

Maybe search online for organisations that can help?

Anyone else have any more helpful advice than me?

Pepper xoxo

Hello Chrissystar (and everyone) (Wave to Pepper ❤️)

Yes, it is pleasing to hear that the conversations that have gone on here have inspired you! I suppose that's what these forums are all aboug.

Regarding adopting children - it's been a long time since I looked into it. Back in the late 80s in Queensland, you had to be 40 years or under to qualify to adopt. The waiting list was 10 years! I was 38. So there was no way that was going to work for me. I had considered adopting from overseas, however, you needed a lot of money - travel, accommodation, travel, applications in foreign language. We just didn't have the finances. I'm not sure about whether single people can adopt, I'm sure though each of the Australian state's will outline their policy for adoption on their website. In terms of overseas, I'd expect you'll have to check each individual country because they each have their own policy regarding adoptions. Again, I'd expect that information will be available from the country's adoption agency website.

Hope this helps you Chrissystar.

Kind regards


Hi Chrissystar (waves back to Pammy ❤️ and all),

I wonder how you’re going with your adoption research?

I know it’s early days yet though and no pressure to share/answer if you don’t want to of course...

Pammy, it sounds like the adoption process was very gruelling for you.

Hopefully the adoption process isn’t quite as challenging today...

kind thoughts,

Pepper xoxo

Hello Chrissy, Pepper, Pammy and all 😊

It is great to hear Chrissy, how encouraged and inspired you sound! Isn't it lovely to hear when others have similar values to yourself, when you're often swimming against the current? So thanks for starting this thread so that we can chat about these things here in an empathic space.

It is fantastic to hear about you teaching permaculture, it is full of such a wonderful concepts that so many can adopt (even on a small scale, or adopt fragments of the overarching concept) to make life better, for themselves and for other life in their microcosm.

I was so happy to read you are converting to being vegan, it makes my heart soar whenever I hear of a fellow vegan. I was a vegetarian for years, when i finally educated myself on the subject, i became vegan, as did my partner, who has been a carniverous meat-loving south american all her life, like, seriously big time meat eater! We found it easy with all the great vegan products and recipes available now, so you will get there, and congratulations!!

It will be interesting to see, if you go ahead with your plan to raise animals for meat for others, how that pans out. I have a theory that the majority of people would be vegan if they had to personally produce their own meat and dairy. The steps nobody sees when you buy it already ready to cook/use. You may inadvertently turn your friends/family vegan by presenting them with that task of ok: here's this precious and lovely animal I have nurtured for you, the rest is up to you (if you can bring yourself to hand them over). They might all end up with pet pigs and chickens they can't bear to harm!

I agree with your ideas about your inspiration to "enlighten", including the next generation. It is a very valid point. Apparently two of the best things you can do to help climate change is 1. Not have kids and 2. Become vegan. But to adopt a child who is already in existence and bring the compassion and light that you have in your heart for the world, is a really valid and valuable quest. There are many children who need foster care as well, you may like to consider this, from research I've done for myself lately, they do not discriminate against single people or same sex couples ... there are short quizzes you can do on different foster care websites to see if you're eligible (if that's something that might interest you).

I will need to address Pepper and Pammy in a separate post, I've ranted on too long 😯


Hey Pepper😊,

I absolutely loved your post ("my point is ... what's my point again?" 😄), about finding your own truth, and living your truth, even if it goes against what "they" think you should be up to. I think we have a responsibility as individuals to not blindly follow what we've been enculturated to believe is right ... you are educating yourself about the world, and taking steps to live a life that is true to your heart and your values, and that's so admirable. Head high, shoulders back. You can be proud that you are blazing your own trail in this difficult world. "Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined!" Henry David Thoreau.

I also was brought up in a conservative home, very strict father, attended a pretty fundamental Christian school .... dad was so strict I wasn't allowed boyfriends, forced to go to church, had to eat what was on my plate, was taught women should have babies to be of value ... that blew up in his face didn't it, here I am a lesbian vegan Buddhist who doesn't want children. Dad: you're welcome 😂. So, Pepper my friend, I say go girl!

You're absolutely right when you say it can be difficult not to become disillusioned, and to not lose faith in what you believe in. What's also hard sometimes is to not lose faith in humanity! Which can directly affect our mental health, in my opinion. Another really good reason to focus on the local, immediate, what we can do in our own lives to reflect our values. Which is really empowering as well, because we do have power over our own actions, as you said.

❤So nice to chat to you on these things.

Pammy, it's wonderful that you are/have been a wildlife rescuer and carer, it's a beautiful thing to do. Animals are just so special and precious and completely at our mercy: what you have done for the vulnerable and voiceless is truly wonderful.

It is a credit to you that you committed to so many acts of conscience at such times that it was against the norm.

It would have been very challenging to become vegan back in the day, so, respect to you for trying back then. These days it's so much easier, with amazingly yummy products, recipes and restaurants/venues that are vegan, and so many ways to ensure you are getting all nutrients in, whereas back then it would have been difficult and rather bland. My partner says she doesn't know if she could've done it say in the 80s or 90s ... so, again, respect to you!

Love/light to all.


Hi Birdy, Chrissystar and all;

Birdy: I loved both your posts 🙂 🌻

Funnily enough, I feel at a loss of words. Lol. That “on the tip of the tongue” feeling except it’s not a single word but a post.

I’ll get back to you with a more thoughtful post later this weeks while I think this over...

In the mean time, I wanted to acknowledge what you said:

I think we have a responsibility as individuals to not blindly follow what we've been enculturated to believe is right ... you are educating yourself about the world, and taking steps to live a life that is true to your heart and your values

Beautifully said 🙂 Thank you for inspiring and lifting us.

Talk soon 🙂

Pepper xoxo

Hi Birdy, Chrissystar and all,

I just wanted to say that I quoted you in my post to Donte’ on another thread: “Can you unlearn? If you can learn then maybe unlearning is not impossible. Challenging mental health notions that we grew up thinking were true.“

I thought your words were too good to not share so I wanted to spread your wisdom 🙂 I hope you don’t mind...

Pepper xoxo

You're a treasure 😊 have a gorgeous day ❤

Hi Chrissystar and all,

I just wanted to say a huge thank you to all of you for your sometimes heartbreaking and sometimes inspiring post 🙂

What I wanted to say was I was researching different animal shelters to do volunteer work with abandoned, mistreated and injured animals last night.

There’s a whole range from admin to more hands-on. Must admit I would prefer to work directly with animals than do admin work. Currently still researching...distance is a huge consideration as I need to find something that is feasible location-wise given my current commitments, travel time, work location, etc.

Thank you all for inspiring me but especially Chrissystar, Pammy and Birdy 🌻

Birdy: I haven’t forgotten. I still want to reply to you. Talk soon...

Pepper xoxo