How much do we actually know about depression? Why are there no depression experts?

[Shock]

Just came out of hospital again and its left me feeling pretty damn hopeless. Tried taking my own life again and the only treatment I get is to 'talk about it' with a psychologist. But that just doesnt work for me! I've talked and talked and talked to counsellors and psychologists for the last 13 years - its clear its not something that I respond to. Likewise, I have tried just about every anti-depressant under the sun.

I will probably either soon end up dead or in hospital again. But I wanted to ask, is there any 'depression experts' out there? Does anyone know of such a thing? I have a friends with more physical ailments - epilepsy and diabetes, for example - and they get to see specialists. Does anything like this exist for depression?

(Sorry for the whinge. I really do appreciate the work people do at hospitals. I am just kind of desperate).

[The_Real_David_Charles]

Dear Shock,

Good to see you survived again.   Did you suffer the bad admin again or was this hospital admission better for you ?  You seemed to suffer the worst of it with any medical interaction.

Stanford University had a study on depression.  This is one of the big three - Cambridge, Harvard, Stanford.   The research team designed an instrument to register thought patterns and how many brain synapses fired during "normal" and "depressive" situations.  They proved categorically that the ability to think is greatly impeded with depression when they compared the readings.   So, the body really can't get over depression whilst it has that "brain fog".  Stanford is considered the top psychology centre in the world with annual bequests totalling $4 billion USA.

The "talking therapy" is one way of breaking down your issues into more manageable portions.  Fine tuning your damage.  It's a long process and sometimes working with a counsellor can make you more depressed as the issues just keep coming.  Often responders say depression has no "quick fix".

Hard physical exercise is suggested as a good form of therapy.    I decided to get a dog.   Sometimes I cut the lawn in a blaze just to shake off the negativity.   Sometimes responding to other threads can give you insight too.  It's up to you.

I think the fact that you rage against the system is the best thing for you. Your threads flow and the energy is high.   You don't take any prisoners.   Just imagine if you used this same integrity to reach for a positive goal.  Geoff has posted elsewhere that a new psychiatrist or counsellor is good to try out for 3 sessions and then decided if you want to continue.  It's a small goal but why not ?

Just one thought fires off 10,000 neurons (my partner studies neuroscience).  Imagine how hard it would be to change your perception against billions of these suckers ?  That's why others recommend trying to accept your situation first.  Lock in all the badness and then make an effort to talk to someone and siphon off all the shitty experiences and times things didn't work out.  Step by step.   I really think you have the panache and boldness to make a difference and it's good to see you out of hospital.  You don't need to apologise for the whinge.  I am English and I have done my fair share of whinging too.  It's all relative.

Adios,David.

[amamas]

Dear Shock

Whinge away I say.  If you can't do it on here where can you do it?

I totally get why you are feeling hopeless!  That's a long time to be searching for the right help!.. Reminds me a little of myself.

I know nothing about depression specialists but have you tried health psychologist.  If you've already been down this road I'm sorry but as you didn't mention TRE I thought I'd ask.  I go to a health psychologist and she is brilliant.  

She says that our trauma is held in our body and part of healing is getting it out (apologies to those who read all the posts and have to read that line again).  Hence TRE.  Trauma Releasing Exercises. They are very easy to do and they help your body release.  I won't even try and explain it but if you haven't tried it please consider it.  The guy who developed it (sorry PTSD brain can't remember his name) explains all about it on the net..  You can also go to classes, buy his book or his DVD (both really cheap).

Other ideas that you may or may not have tried are EFT and EMDR.

Take care cheers amamas

[Chris_B]

Hey Shock, I believe we are all experts on our own depression; the doctors, psychologists etc we come into contact with when we're unwell have to do their best to interpret what we're going through and find a way to help keep us standing. 

David's advice is great: I think the next phase is trying to look outward for things you can do in your life that you enjoy doing and can be focused on; friends, family, physical pursuits, creative pursuits, learning new things, helping others, taking the time to make a 'good list' of all the stuff you enjoy about living from the mundane to the magnificent.  

From time to time, the brain may fizzle and you could end up needing to go to hospital again; but this is similar to what people with chronic physical illnesses have to accept.  The difference is, having a physical illness is never seen as anyone's fault.  

If talking therapy really doesn't work for you, have you ever tried an online program like Mood Gym? https://moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome

best
CB

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Online Community Manager

[phil350]

Hi Shock

I get you! I know exactly where you are coming from. I hate talking about my problems, it just doesn't work for me, how long do you have to flog a dead horse? I just had ECT as the meds didn't work. It was no picnic and didn't help, it has made me feel worse as this was the last option. But now they want me to go to another psychologist! My thoughts are getting more and more drawn to suicide.

[The_Real_David_Charles]

Dear Shock,

What did you decide to do ?

Adios, David.

[The_Real_David_Charles]

Dear phil,

Maybe the fact that you "hat talking about my problems" is part of the problem.  Very few therapies can be done without some form of communicating.

I agree that ECT is a bit hit and miss - some older, long term depressives respond better to it.   It's a shame that you regarded ECT as "the last option" as there are a multitude of other things you could try - something might click if you're willing to give it a go.  Like you said, the other psychologist might not work either but if you can commit to trying anything could happen.   You might even meet someone on the way to the other psychologist, say at the bus stop, who connects with you and becomes a life long friend and supports you.

There are opportunities to connect everywhere but the psychologist setting is a bit more layed out.  Assuming that one psychologist not working for you will be repeated is a bit crazy as they are all different, varying in experience or approach and free if you do it through a Mental Health Plan.

Suicide draws one in just as much as one is drawn to suicide.  Maybe you still haven't hit rock bottom and decided to make more effort getting help.   As someone that's attempted suicide 3 times I can look back and see that just a little something from somebody might have made a difference.  It's not something you want to dwell on without having the chance to communicate (like you've done above).

When things are bad they're bad.  Still doesn't mean some good may happen.  If you're willing to try things and mix it up.

Adios, David.

[Shock]

Hi David,

Well, I chose death, but obviously didnt succeed - just made things pretty crappy healthwise for a few days.

Yeah, it definetly feels like the better option. All those things you mentioned I already do, like focussing my energy or anger towards something, The thing is I just get nowhere with it. No one wants to listen. For example, I struggled for months to get the hospital to right their wrongs (eg: no allied persons, no information, sleep depravation techniques, etc) but it all falls upon deaf ears. I even try to get organistaions like BB involved, but they are too fearful to criticise the government, lest the lose their funding. On top of all that its really easy for them to ignore you, because your 'crazy'. 

So whats the point? I am just one pissed of but ineffective guy to them. Besides, I have to work, I have to make a living. I cannot do all this on a lunch break. 

What I have been doing lately is introspectively taking a larger view of things. Do hospitals work? No. Do therapists work? No. Do meds work? No. Does altering my lifestyle work? Maybe, but unless I win the lottery, I dont have the time and resources to devote to finding this out.

Of course I have done this to an extent - I have joined clubs, joined sport groups, taken up hobbies, met new people, etc, but it doesnt change anything - it doesnt even give me a sense of what direction I should head in. The effect of these activities are null and I only ever did them because its meant to help me get better.

There just no point in keeping it up is all.

[vip]

Hi Shock so sorry that your finding nothing is working for you. You are still communicating with us all so thats good keep that up. If it helps it took me 22yrs to get out of my dark depression I think im travelling ok now but still i have to put heaps of effort in everything i do . Still keep up all the sport activities hobbies ect they do help in keeping your mind off things even though you did say they dont bring you much enjoyment . You sound like a fighter to me so just keep going there is hope for you . its just a matter of finding something to make you smile again. Take care and hope you start feeling better

[The_Real_David_Charles]

Dear Shock,

I agree with you.   The worst part of an admission is if there are a few staff that don't seem to get on anyones' wavelength and are just punching the clock.    My radar can pick a condescending remark and see through some of the masqaurade.   Occasionally a psych nurse will show a lot of interest and ask about your day but it's only to write the report and because they've been on auto up to that point.  Seems to have that quality of obstruction instead of support.   Groundhog Hospital Day.

Something has to change but if all the changing doesn't seem worth it you're stuck in limbo again.   Maybe if your genuine ability to make an effort finally does connect with someone or something you'll get  sneak peak at a better mindset.  As a composer, I'm used to looking at different ways of writing but the real moment of  truth comes when my big band rehearse of perform.   If we didn't have that final live experience it would be Groundhog Rehearsal Day and very boring.  Usually I avoid the gig as I can't cope with musicians being 2 hours late or getting the day wrong.  But sometimes these 'crazy' guys are the ones I most need for their creativity, spontaneity and imagination.

I am very sorry but I can't remember what your line is.   Call me stupid.  I didn't finish at chart till 4:30am last night so I am a bit groggy today.    The fun of being a composer !  You're doing remarkably well to continue working despite your problems.  Maybe the effort of continuity at work is what is making outside connections impossible.  All you effort is going into your work hours.

Adios, David.