CBT for anxiety; Mindspot online course

[Moonstruck]

Just a few weeks into a Mindspot online course..they're great people..and explained the correlation between thoughts, actions leading from those thoughts, how it makes us feel etc...how they all work together etc. Other clients' personal stories which are helpful to read...but what do I DO now?

I already knew most of the initial information and also how CBT is supposed to work....I am eager to get to the "next bit"..how do I put CBT into action so that it works for me? I have heard it is very effective...and willing to give it a try...but what comes next? Ok...I "challenge my thoughts"....yes, done that...what's next??

Or is that all I have to do to improve and handle my crippling anxiety and over-thinking?

If I have an unhelpful thought....then challenge it...is it like a magic wand?

Any input from others with experience of this therapy would be very appreciated.....wishing all a positive day...Moonstruck

[JessF]

Hello Moonstruck, it does sound almost too simple doesn't it?

The way I see it is, imagine you have never seen a washing machine before, and someone shows you one, and says 'you just put your clothes in there and hour later they're clean'. Of course, you still have to dry your clothes, and at the end of the day your clothes will be dirty again and have to go back in the machine. The machine is just a tool to make your life a bit easier, it doesn't eliminate the problem of dirty clothes.

It's a bit like that with learning to challenge your thoughts, it's an ongoing process, and can be very hard to get to grips with at first, like any new skill. I have found it doesn't stop you being anxious entirely, but it gives you perspective and gives you some breathing space between anxious thoughts, feelings and actions.

The key in challenging your thoughts is to replace an anxious thought with a realistic alternative thought. For example, you're anxious about an upcoming job interview, and think to yourself "I'll be so nervous I won't be able to get through it". If you challenge that thought by just saying "don't be silly, it'll be fine", that won't work because you won't believe it. But if you challenge it by saying something like, "I will be nervous, but I will rehearse beforehand so I can be prepared just like I did the last time I had a good interview" it's better because you're tying it to something practical you can actually do, not just berating yourself for having an anxious thought.

I hope that helps.

[PamelaR]

Hi Moonstruck

You've asked some very good questions Moonstruck. How do you put into action - to think differently. You are so right it just doesn't happen.

Firstly it takes one to recognise that the thought they've had is 'unhelpful'. I.e. its led to anxiety or triggers one in some way. Recognising and identifying the unhelpful thoughts is all part of the challenge. Once these are recognised it does get a little easier. Maybe asking yourself - how do I feel about myself when I think that. E.g. my self esteem is pretty low, my self worth is non existent. Yep, definitely indicators for unhelpful thoughts.

So, we now, have the task of look at what we've said to ourselves. Let me think of a situation -

I just pegged out the socks, just as they came out of the basket. Now I haven't done this for a long time because I worked and hubby was at home at took on the housekeeping role. Now I'm retired, I can do this stuff (or so I thought). Hubby came along and changed the socks into the way he hung them out - in pairs. Wow, that knocked me. It took awhile to realise my thoughts were - I did it wrong, I'm wrong, I'm worthless. This stemmed from a mother who thought I was useless.

Anyway, after seeing my psychologist and talking through it - I changed my story by looking at my hubby's response in a different way. He changed the socks around, not because I'm useless, but because they dried quicker. He didn't mind doing this (as he'd been doing it for awhile).

So the thought change is from - I'm not useless, to

• the way to hang the socks is more efficient way. It's not a slight on me.It's a learning for me.

I can give you many more examples about changing the stories in your head if you think the above one helped you in any way.

Please let me know. Here to give support in anyway I can.

Kind regards

PamelaR

[Moonstruck]

Thank you both so much. I re-read the most recent lesson of the course...and I must have missed a bit on "tips for shifting your attention" and other practical advice...which is what I needed i.e. "how" to go about doing the things they suggest beyond "recognising unhelpful thoughts and challenging them".

I felt relieved when I found the extra paragraphs so hopefully there will be more practical guidelines for me in the lessons to come....I was beginning to think the course would be mostly theory and explanations but I will persevere and re-read, making sure I don't miss anything.

[PamelaR]

You rock Moonstruck. I've been reading your posts for over a year now and you have so much good to offer everyone out there. Think you are hard on yourself....hmmmm. It's okay to not read things the way they are meant. ...I do that all the time. Just have a read of my responses to people. I really have missed some vital info. But you know that's okay. I don't have to be perfect!! I can be a little bit amiss. So long as what I do is from my heart and from the best intentions.

Moonstruck, you are so hard on yourself. And there is no good reason for you to do this! Unless you can tell me otherwise 🙂

Kindest thoughts being sent your way dear Moonstruck.

PamelaR

[Bluebirdbrown]

Moonstruck,

It’s good to hear this that you are on the mindspot wellbeing course. I have just finished lesson 3 and started the lesson 4 today. I found that lesson 2 about the thought challenging is the most important and helpful for me. It took me two entire weeks to read through the course notes again and again, gone though 6 times to digest the course materials. I am a serious reader and like the course structure eg the cycle of symptom theory makes sense and is very helpful to understand the underlying issues and how to break that cycle.

before I started the course, I doubted I would love any online course as I hated sitting in front of the computer and read stuffs. I ended up getting the hard copy of the course notes.

I don’t know if you find the course material useful. For me reading the course materials is better than seeing my psychologist face to face as I find it useless to have only 50 mins counselling!

I do follow the worksheets and do some thought challenging exercises and spend sometime to read theough how others tackle their problems. CBT is indeed helpful for me. It’s not a magic wand but I have improved a lot myself. My score from K10 has come down from 26 to 12. I am nearly normal now. Not sure if it’s the course that helps and / or my exercises that helps a bit.

Overall I like the course. Hope you can speak to the therapist to get the most out of the course!

[romantic_thi3f]

Hi Moonstruck,

Thanks for your post - I think there's been so much support already so hope you don't mind me jumping in.

I feel like challenging your thoughts is kind of the tip of the CBT iceberg. We often have what's called a 'cognitive triangle' - our thoughts influence our behaviour which influences our feelings.

Using JessF's example about the job interview -

(thought) I'll be so nervous I won't be able to do it - (behaviour) - cancel the job interview - (feelings) - disappointed, ashamed

(thought) I'll be so nervous I won't be able to do it - (reframe - or challenging your thoughts) - I will be nervous, but that's okay because lots of people are nervous before job interviews. I will rehearse before it so I'll feel more confident - (behaviour) attend the interview - (emotions) relieved, happy

By challenging our thoughts and questioning some of the rules behind them, we can then change the way we act, which changes the way we feel.

Is it a magic wand? Absolutely not. I prefer to think of it as a muscle. When you're not used to challenging your thoughts it feels so automatic, so it takes a lot of practice. The metaphor of laundry works too!

Hope this helps,

[Moonstruck]

By all means romantic ....I'd like to hear from as many folk as possible. An unfortunate thing is, just as i was beginning the course...feeling "not too bad overall" a crisis involving one of my adult children occurred and I could barely hold myself together with worry about him...

It's all i can think about (or in my case "over think").....when it's your own child (even when grown up) their pain is your pain I totally took on his pain .....so the "challenging your thoughts" part is more challenging than I expected.

I feel I would be making more progress if this family situation hadn't happened when it did...e.g.
"I don't know what to do to help my son...there's nothing I can do"....how can I challenge that thought?.

any ideas much much appreciated...and sorry I have veered off topic somewhat but I guess it's all inter-connected somehow....thanks again everyone for your valuable input....Moon S

[romantic_thi3f]

Hi Moonstruck,

Oh no, I hope you both are doing okay. I would completely understand that you'd be struggling with the course; it's not at all designed for a crisis and yet a credit to you for plotting with the material anyway.

Without knowing what's happened or if there is actually anything you can do, I'm not sure how to give a bit of context. Not being able to do anything isn't necessarily an unhelpful thought - just an unhelpful situation. Are there any other thoughts (helpful or unhelpful) that come to mind?

Some other ones off the top of my head might be 'it's my fault that this happened', 'I should have seen it coming', 'i'm falling apart'. If this was something you could relate to these are some unhelpful ones that you could challenge...

[Moonstruck]

Re the phrase "challenge unhelpful thoughts"..how do I actually "challenge" it...by saying to the thought.."no that's not true...this is more like it is"...then go on to talk to myself by thinking of anything at all that brings a bit of relief....is that what I am meant to be doing by "challenging"??

there's no use pretending the thoughts are not there....even if they are unhelpful, sometimes a thought can be just plain TRUE...can't it? Or is it only true because I think it is? (getting a bit deep here I guess).....my son's problem is not in the slightest "my fault" so there is no self blame to contend with..it's a marriage problem so, only so far a mother can go in that area! Hence, the feeling so Helpless!!

I have just sent a private message to my Mindspot therapist explaining why I may seem worse than when I was even assessed in the first place! .....sending kind thoughts to you......