To stay, or not to stay: That is the question.

[Nothappyuni]

Let me start by saying I know I have to leave; It is not advice I am looking for, it is understanding why I have not left.

I find wonder and beauty in nature, art and people, but, along with the highs are the lows, I can't help thinking about my relationship. I have a partner who suffers from depression and self loathing. I was drawn to her like yin to yang. But, when one person is a vacuum that draws all warmth, the other is left cold; eventually the fire has to burn out. Everything I did to help my partner, only held her demons at bay. I realise that I cannot 'fix' what is broken in my 'partner', no matter how much love and affection is applied. Everyone must make change in themselves.

I read the posts by 'rhinoceros' and was prompted to write this. My 'partner' has intimacy problems, no hugs, no touching and no sex, it wasn't like that for 18 years, then like a light being turned off, it was ended. This makes me feel unwanted and unattractive. My feelings are my own, but we all know they are a bitter pill to swallow. You put on weight, you stop looking after your appearance, you become worthless and loveless. I understand this is a form of control, you can never leave a relationship if no one else will have you. I have packed my bags a dozen times, but it is not so easy after 25 years to walk away.

It is even harder to leave when your partner threatens: to kill themselves, to take everything from you, to make it as painful as possible, or to make your children hate you. I am told that I am incredibly selfish, my 'partner' admits to having problems, they make her call me names, and say "your'e stupid", "you are nothing", "everything you do is sh*t".

In the back my mind a voice asks "what would it be like to have love and be loved again, to have physical contact with someone, to have a moment of passion however short?". All the couples therapists, psychologists, counsellors, have told us my partner should be on anti depressants, and cut back her drinking. But it is not going to happen. She is desperate to recapture her youth.

So I have to leave, for myself and for her. So many people on this site have done it; even I have been married and divorced from a partner that slept around on me. It was easy to end because I had the anger of betrayal. But, with this, I just feel sorrow for my partner, she is so terrified of being alone and I have no anger, no hate to fuel my departure. She insists I must stay, saying "life is not so bad for me".

[white knight]

Hi, welcome

I'm struggling to understand totally so forgive me if I go off track. So you will leave the relationship but you aren't leaving at this point and you'd like understanding as to why. She suffers from self loathing and depression, you are living (surviving) in a loveless unity which are needs you desire.

It sounds to me like your relationship from your perspective is more a friendship of dependency, yet, there is the put downs and the emotional blackmail with threats of suicide.

Ok, I'll tap into my own experience if I may. 4 long term relationships all over 7 years long, the last has been 8 years and happily. The first relationship she had severe mental illness and left me no less than 400 times in 7 years. Each time was by note when I was at work and the note often mentioned she was off to take her life. My heart broke each time, then she'd return 2 days later. She'd go to her mothers in that time but it hurt. The second was abusive with silence and disrespect. The third was the step mother from hell to my two daughters.

All 3 of those I left them because they were all toxic. I could clearly see the future better than if I remained. Perhaps that is lacking here in yourself? The other thing of note is the threats of suicide- I don't believe anyone should ever do that. It's wrong. For that reason leaving her should be done in the morning not late evening when tiredness takes control and possible alcohol is involved.

She said "life isn't so bad for me". but it is you that should be the judge of that don't you think? It is like someone says something one finds abusive and you front them and they say "calling you an idiot isn't abusive"!! Isnt it the receiver that should be the judge?

There is some sort of dependency there that is unusual but all relationships are- unique.

Use the search engine at the top and type in - "the definition of abuse"

"is there room for stubbornness"?

"does stubbornness have a place"

I hope I've helped. Repost anytime

TonyWK

[Nothappyuni]

Toxic is a word for the relationship, and yes I would agree stubborn would describe me. I don't give up on things easily. That is one of the ploys she uses to stop me leaving, calling me a quitter and saying I give up too easily.

I am well aware of the definition of abuse, every counsellor, therapist and psychologist we have been to has stated that I am being abused, and No, I don't like the abuse, it makes me very sad.

I have my own demons, I fall deeply when I do fall for someone. I commit completely, I had always believed I would spend my life with this person, growing old together, therein lies my dependancy, that and the 25 years spent together. As they say, old habits die hard.

I would argue that after years of abuse, I am not the person I once was. I no longer look people in the eye, or have the confidence I once had with members of the opposite sex. Starting again is truly daunting.

Our arguments are often based on me quietly explaining that calling me names, throwing my treasured items in the bin, or saying I am worthless/she wished she had never met me, is hurtful; but, then I get yelled at and told I don't work hard enough or I don't take my kids camping enough (the kids have their own lives, they are young adults), sometimes it is the silent treatment (scary sh*t, like I am not there, silent treatment) .

We are told it is perimenopause that is making the mood swings worse and part of me wants to believe she could get better. Deep down, I know she will only get worse.

[Betternow]

Greetings Nothappy@uni

Your original post is unusual and beautifully written. I identified with it immediately. You are of the very few people on this site that has made it clear that you are not looking fir advice. I get that, you have done the rounds of therapists and counsellors. The part of your post that convinced me that I can’t see any more value in your marriage is her threats to turn the children against you and to make life as difficult as possible for you. These are not the emotions of someone you can love and build a life. Why do you stay?

I believe you have answered your own question. Twenty five years (18 of them good) is not something that anyone should throw away lightly. You sound like a loyal, steadfast partner who understands the pain and joy in the world and is reluctant to add more pain into a situation than already exists. It is your innate character that keeps you in the partnership.

Your post read as a declaration, a validation that you are ready to embark upon a difficult decision. You are asking the world to understand how hard you have tried not to let the situation come to this.
I do hope that things turn out as best they can but please remember that your words were not in vain. Many reading your post understand. You are not alone.

[Nothappyuni]

Hi Better Now,

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

You may only have 32 posts, but you understood clearly.

[Nothappyuni]

I don't know how many readers here follow logical thought; but, I am someone who understands the sun will rise in the morning and set in the evening, I know that one and one is two. What terrifies me most in this world is how my 'partner' changes her mind and says "no, I didn't say that!", she is not lying, I can tell in her own mind she is convinced. In the midst of heated discussion she will tell me "I'll kill myself then, I will make this so painful if you leave, I wish I had never met you, You should have given me more", then, on quiet days, out of the blue she makes statements "I am so depressed, I could just die", " I am so unhappy with everything, I have given up", BUT later she says she never said any of it, with absolute conviction. More and more she has this dead look in her eyes, it is so strange it haunts me. One Sunday afternoon about two months ago we had a conversation, I noticed she used positive life quotes I had never heard before, the next day she had no recollection of the quotes insisting I was insane, "I have never heard that saying, why would I say it?" I tell you now, we had that conversation.

She calls me stupid all the time, I'm not intelligent, but I get 'High Distinctions' or Distinctions at university (over many years of studies), and I score high on aptitude tests. I can remember facts or events from novels or text books with clarity. So what is going on with all these moments that happened, that she insists didn't happen? These incredible mood swings, I swear I live with two different people, and it is shaking my grip on reality. (For the analysts, yes, I have had an assessment. My partner on the other hand, goes from one the next, unhappy with the feedback, she keeps looking. When we go together she sits and says nothing.)

[white knight]

Hi again

Sorry for not replying lately, so many posts here I lose track.

I don't know what it is that causes some people to demonise their partner. Perhaps that is why they say "you have to work on your relationship" and "don't say things you'll regret" and if you cant say anything good, don't say anything at all". All these theories were created for a reason but what comments do, like the ones you described, if erode the relationship to the point whereby you leave. Emotional aggression, passive aggression even silence (as I experienced for 11 years) is plain wrong. It makes it harder if you love that person or have children together.

Having had 4 long term relationships I believe that in the early days partners are best advised to set boundaries whereby abuse is number one no-no. Furthermore talking things over maturely and calmly is number 2. Then there is giving the other space when needed and so on.

I've got one solution that works perfectly for my wife and I. With my bipolar and her depression we can sometimes explode. This is our solution and if you both promise to stick by it- it will work.

Google or use search

Beyondblue topic relationship strife?- the peace pipe.

Essentially it is respecting the partner to have space plus some rules in there also. You'd be amazed what 20-30 minutes can do with calming the waters.

TonyWK

[rhinoceros]

Hi Nothappy@uni

I can relate to some of what you're going through.
My partner, well ex-partner now, she had big issues with intimacy. I did as well though. Unfortunately it was a bit of a vicious cycle. It started with AD medication causing unfortunate and embarrassing side-effects for me. She felt rejected and hurt, understandably so - however this quickly turned into me being screamed at if I didn't "perform" to her expectations. I basically became afraid of intimacy.

She said "this is YOUR problem - you need to fix it". That I did - I saw a counsellor, and actually managed to get somewhat comfortable with intimacy again. When we actually attempted intimacy again, I was told "you're just like all men, you only want one thing!"... I couldn't win. I remember after one of these episodes I said that I'm walking out - I can't deal with this - her response was "fine! I'll just find someone who WILL sleep with me". She was abusive, and it took so long for me to realise that.

I tried to talk to her to gain insight to how she was feeling, if there were things I could do to help. She always would say that we'd work things out eventually. For ages I was happy with that answer, but eventually I realised that you can't fix something by doing nothing about it at all.

All this meant I had zero self-confidence. It affected every part of life. It wasn't just about sex, it was that pretty much everything I did in the relationship was not recognised or appreciated. I was doing all the work. I work two jobs - I have a 9-5 office job, and then I work as a guitar player in bands. I'd be finishing work, going to her place, cooking her dinner, doing some tidying up before heading out to perform.

In some ways I didn't mind putting in all the hard work as I felt like I didn't meet her needs in other ways. I realise now how unfair it was. I was basically a carer. She was more than happy with that dynamic. The 3 1/2 years we were together were mostly a sad time. Her recollection is totally different, but for me it was unhappy.

Now that we've broken up, she's like a different person. She's trying to get me back again. I know that if I went back to her, that change wouldn't last long at all. She means well, and deep down I know she's a good person, but at the same time, I know there's a cruel streak there that I never want to have to deal with ever again.

[Steves_87]

I’m beginning to feel this way about my girlfriend who asked to take a break because she’s got things going on in her life that she can’t focus on us. She’s got a hell of a lot of demons and won’t talk to anyone no matter how much love and affection I’ve shown her it hasn’t changed things. Initially she was really I feel into the relationship but the past few weeks has left me feeling cold. I’ve bought her flowers to cheer her up I always say affirming things but I’m left feeling cold I’m trying to support her but I feel she isn’t positive about the fact she has her boyfriend someone who genuinely cares about her she’s got we two daughters her family it’s just negative and no matter how much I’m there for her it isn’t going to change her mindset. I feel where you’re coming from mate

[LLB]

Hi Nothappy@uni,

My brother-in-law also struggles to break up with his gf of many years. She has also threatened him with suicides. When he last broke up with her, she came by his place in the middle of the night in a thunderstorm and refused to leave until he sees her. He is a soft hearted person and he doesn't want any harm to come to her and so he stayed. He is still with her. This is his and hers first relationship and I feel sorry for him that he will never know anything better if he stays with her.
While I feel for her, it is not fair that her happiness should be built on his misery. I think it is an incredibly selfish act, to threaten self harm and emaotipnally blackmail others into doing what she wants but maybe I'm just cold-hearted.
I feel for you, you have chosen to stay as well. How do you cope? By writing here?