Being a teenager's Mum

[kellie70]

Hi everyone,

I have mild depression and anxiety. It comes in waves. This week it has enveloped me in it's cloud. For years, I have just let it wash over, tried to ignore it, and that seemed to work.

My son is now 15. And I am having the "normal" issues with being the Mum of a teen, the attitude from him etc.

My friends all say he is acting like a "normal" teen, and they all have the same issues with their children.

My question is, how do I know if he is being "naughtier" than other teens, or if I am just reacting worse than other Mums due to my own demons?

I am having trouble knowing how hard to discipline him, as I am finding it a bit blurred as to whether I am being more sensitive due to my demons, or whether he is being naughtier than a "normal" teen

Does that make sense? Any advice would help. Any stories of your own would help

Thanks 🙂

[S_A_D_]

Gday Geoff, mf,

I'm glad we agree and I'm sorry for being hard on you. this is an emotional subject for me, and I get carried away, running with the assumption I will be opposed. I have seen many cases in Australia where parents get attached to using punishment frequently. I see too many other parents turning a blind eye to abuse of children in public, and even permitting parents to use their best judgement when that judgement is clearly inappropriate, which they would not ever do to their own kids.

Thank you for assuming that the words, "whatever that means" was meant literally. I find that too many parents don't understand the risks of teaching correct behaviour via punishment, and I couldn't have known whether you were aware of these limitations or not. Nevertheless, my choice of words was poor, which I tend to do when discussing things that are related to my personal experiences of abuse and neglect. I certainly can't promise this won't happen again, but I would appreciate receiving the benefit of the doubt again in the future.

[S_A_D_]

Hello David,

Allow me to set the record straight.

I am not 23. I have never said I am 23. I don't know why my age would be an important factor in the truth or falsity of such claims. I also don't know why a lack of experience in performing the act of parenting would invalidate my position or claims. Such a position would be a illogical form of thinking involving the genetic fallacy and an ad hominem on me, which are added to the straw man fallacy of counter argument. You seem to be trying to assert that the only way a person can be respected and listened to on the subject of parenting is by  having been a parent, which means you're also committing the fallacy of appeal to authority. Please consider only the content of my claims, not the source of those claims. My actual age, and whether I have been in a position to perform the duties of a parent in my past are irrelevant.

You are correct that a parent would not use those terms in performing the act of parenting, and there is a good reason. Parenting is highly subjective, and this makes personal experience heavily clouded by bias. Therefore, it has been suggested in modern parenting science that people with extensive past experience with parenting are among the most resistant to impartial and objective evaluation of effective parenting strategies, techniques and behavioural models. This theory has received a lot of support and experimental confirmation in psychological circles. In other words, the best people to talk about parenting could be people who have never been parents. This has been an example of a non-fallacious appeal to authority. 

I do sincerely apologise if anyone has started to feel embarrassed that what they believed to be a position of authority turns out to actually hamper their judgement. I can only ask that, whomever you are, you can find a silver lining of humility in those overpoweringly negative feelings.

[The_Real_David_Charles]

Dear Facetious,

If you are a parent you don't have to justify being a parent.  There is no fallacy involved in my observation.   Age is very important when it comes to parenting as a 16 yr old mother will be entirely different from a 36 yr old mother.

A parent does not need theories, evaluations, arguements.  They need support, love, acceptance, kindness and a friend.  It saddens me that someone as intelligent as yourself has to make such long winded arguements.    

The reason parents might be "resistant" to intellectual theories and such is that they have experience, tolerance and insight.    Why would any parent listen or give time to a non parent ?  It's bad enough listening to a mother in law.

You gotta give this quest for constantly asserting justification up on a parental post.  It's unhealthy to have such an obsession with detail that is irrelevant.  Keep it simple.  Mother (depressed) and 15 yr teenage son.   The last sentence of the initial post, pertaining to mother/son, i.e parent/child, clearly states "Any stories of  your own would help".   Have you any personal parenting stories ?  Are you a parent / father ?   As a parent might say to a teenager:  "Do your homework".

Adios, David.

PS  There's a difference between relevance and information.

[The_Real_David_Charles]

Dear David from David,

The parental survey me and my wife did came back "No, I would never ask for parenting advice from a non parent".

This was other parents locally, our business - a professional big band in the children's area (0 - 12 yrs) - which has been going 15 yrs and given us a database of thousands, my wife's Music & the Brain research at university and her university alumni, grandparents from any location and upbringing that I meet whilst performing in Nursing Homes, schools and my local chippie.  As a single person you might think you know everything about parental duties but I think it's impossible to "get" parenting without being one.   The power of the internet !

As I said before the need to build an arguement with a scaffolding of parental theorising really says more about your own parents.  Much though we like to have an opinion of everything, parenting is not that kind of box to tick.

Adios, David.

PS   Criticising a parent is a very dangerous thing.  I wrote an article on parental leave for "Mother & Baby" in the mid-90's and it was very clear that all contributors had their own families.  There was no psycho babble.  Pure Club Baby.

[S_A_D_]

I do have a story of my own, which I was willing to share, which exemplifies "what NOT to do," but I'm starting to think my story is less and less welcome in this thread. I still have not received any feedback from Kellie, and my scientifically supported opinion is not considered worthy of respect by some other answerers here, so I don't feel motivated to describe my story of unhealthy parenting that my research was based on.

I'm not saying raw observations are, or ever could be, fallacious. Only judgement of those observations. I'm also not saying parents have to justify their being parents. I'm not even saying they have to justify anything. I am saying that an open discussion without discrimination (like discrimination against young people, or people who have never been parents) is the best environment for healthy argument and a mutually beneficial resolution.

Parents do need support, love, acceptance, kindness and a friend, but that's not enough. They also need guidance, encouragement, and a trusted authority. Should that trusted authority be other parents, who are making all sorts of mistakes of their own, or a field of studious experts focused on discerning which parenting behaviours lead to nourished, healthy kids and happy, proud and loving parents, and which lead to mutual feelings of fear, resentment, regret, and mental illness?

Is the science of effective parenting irrelevant to parents?

[geoff]

dear Facetious, thanks for your reply.

We are all friends here, well we don't desert each other because of having depression, and I'm pretty hard skinned.

When I talk about overcoming depression, it's sort of a vague expression, because yesterday I had an off day.

My little white dog has cancer, has had an operation a few months ago to remove it, and when they say 'once they open you up to remove any cancer it just spreads, when the air or oxygen gets to it'.

How true this is, she has more lumps now than before. L Geoff. x

[S_A_D_]

I'll ask 3 very easy questions: Do you believe you are the best parent that has ever lived?

Would I gain your approval as an authority worthy of giving advice in this thread if I had access to the do's and don't's compiled by the highest authority worldwide in effective parenting, and not only used but endorsed by parents in the world's most psychologically healthy population groups?

I know where these parents are, what they are doing, why it works, and how to apply it in any family arrangement.

Does it still matter whether I am a parent myself or not, if I am able to relay the opinions and advice of other parents?

[The_Real_David_Charles]

Dear Facetious,

It will matter to your own children if you want to be their parent or not.

Adios, David.