Being a teenager's Mum

[kellie70]

Hi everyone,

I have mild depression and anxiety. It comes in waves. This week it has enveloped me in it's cloud. For years, I have just let it wash over, tried to ignore it, and that seemed to work.

My son is now 15. And I am having the "normal" issues with being the Mum of a teen, the attitude from him etc.

My friends all say he is acting like a "normal" teen, and they all have the same issues with their children.

My question is, how do I know if he is being "naughtier" than other teens, or if I am just reacting worse than other Mums due to my own demons?

I am having trouble knowing how hard to discipline him, as I am finding it a bit blurred as to whether I am being more sensitive due to my demons, or whether he is being naughtier than a "normal" teen

Does that make sense? Any advice would help. Any stories of your own would help

Thanks 🙂

[The_Real_David_Charles]

Dear Kellie,

Don't you know all teenagers are sent to torment us ?  Lol.

I had 3 teens and that was...........interesting.   They seem to enjoy internet communication so we never really know what they're doing 100%.  Gone are the days when you could look over the dining table at your son and give a withering look, without saying anything, and he would know you were mad and "don't mess with me".   Nowadays, taking a laptop away seems a good solution (or at least putting it on the dining table so you can monitor stuff).

I think as long as you're communicating I wouldn't worry.   And this is probably where any of your own demons will interefere - depression being great at blocking communication.  It's not possible to be the best mum in the world but you can be the best you can be.   Which is enough for most kids.

Discipline isn't much fun.   Even when stricter parents "ground" their teenagers it's a complete waste of time - the parents are equally "grounded".  No one wins.  "Go to your room" use to be a punishment of sorts but the emporium of magical activities that most teenage have access to in their rooms soon usurps any real punishment.  I hear some of them even read a book.

Adios, David.

[S_A_D_]

I have a formal education in this subject, and can help you if you desire.

In Australian culture, heck in all of western culture, "normal" is not healthy. Do you want to raise a normal son, or a psychologically healthy son?

Normal teenagers:

Normal is drug use.
Normal is teenage, unprotected sex.
Normal is telling your parents you hate them.
Normal is binge drinking at a party.
Normal is ignoring being grounded, and sneaking out.
Normal is trying to oppose everything you're parents tell you to do

Normal parents:

Normal is saying "respect your elders", as though kids don't deserve respect
Normal is telling kids to behave themselves, and expecting them to know what that means
Normal is taking away the things they like when they don't do as they're told
Normal is telling them they can't have nice new things they've chosen, that make them feel proud and special
Normal is telling them what is good, and what is bad; what is right, and what is wrong, without letting them learn for themselves.
Normal is yelling at them out of frustration, hurting their feelings because they hurt your feelings.
Normal is telling your kids you're too tired after work to talk to them, to help them, to nurture them, to encourage them.
Normal is thinking your own needs are more important than theirs, or that their needs are whatever you say their needs are.

"Normal" is VERY different from healthy. So do you want a normal teenager, or a healthy teenager? I await your response. 

[Damien]

Hello Kellie,

I start out by saying that I am not a parent, however I have been a teacher and a school counsellor/chaplain in the past.  I know some of what you're talking about even as I used to work with some of the parents of my students, and students who themselves "were fine" but had parents with illnesses.  This doesn't make me an expert, but at least you'll know where my comments are coming from.  🙂

I want to suggest that is doesn't matter whether your son is "naughtier than other teens",, love and discipline him for who he is.  Your own illness is having an effect on him, and perhaps he is acting out his insecurities and worries in his behaviour, but in a way that is normal and "coping" because that is what boys do.  I used to be a boy, I know this.  (And of course as an educator/counsellor I've seen it too.)

Perhaps you could discuss your own health with him, this is up to you to decide and you know your own relationship dynamic there.  I have found with "normal" kids that if you say to them "look, the situation is..." and you help them understand what is going on they do tend to come to the party and help out.  Perhaps your son will develop the maturity at times to think, "okay, that was just mum being mental" and let it go rather than biting back if he knows that sometimes mum is "mental", especially if you've had a chat and then say at some future point "look today is a low day, can you just give me some space today son".

Of course having a sick mum is a struggle for kids, and the closer you are in relationship the harder it is, no-one likes seeing someone they love unwell.  Is their support you can access for your son, perhaps these other mums (and dads!!) you speak of, or the parents of his friends (if those aren't the same adults as the first group)?  There are also guides and fact sheets that beyondblue puts out for "carers" and kids of sick parents, again something you might talk through with him or perhaps leave with him to read in his own time.

So, treat him as your son, not as a case-study in teen behaviour.  You know your boy, do what seems right as his mother.  At the same time let him have as much information about you and your "waves" as he is comfortable with.  You may just find that he steps up to the mark with his behaviour (ie, gets better) if he knows it will help you, and you'll also be able to think for yourself that if he does have a naughty moment it might be that he's worried or anxious about you and that he needs comfort and reassurance rather than punishment.  (May be, other times he probably is a 15 year old for all that that means.)

Bless.

[geoff]

dear Kellie, I feel sorry for you to have these awful thoughts, as it's not easy out in the world today, and we always suspect that our kids are into drugs, and this is a concern these days, and it's a valid point.

Other mum's try and justify our fears by saying that they are no different than to other kids, and whether they say this just to justify something that their kids might be doing that could be wrong.

When we have depression, anxiety or what ever we tend to look at our situation as being worse but that's the nature of this illness.

If you believe that he is being a naughty boy, this then flows back to putting the blame onto ourselves, thinking that if I wasn't depressed then this would not have happened, but that's not true, the kids these days do things that were never considered in our day, and this process will continue and when you son is our age he will be saying exactly the same as what we are saying now.

If by chance he is doing something that he shouldn't be doing you will find out eventually, and how you discipline him is not to go too hard on him because if you do then it will make his situation worse, or he will rebel. L Geoff. x

[The_Real_David_Charles]

Dear Facetious,

That's a lot of "rules"/expectations/protocol.  And that's not normal !

If you haven't got teenagers it's hard to work this one out just on paper.  Add in the 24/7 bit and it's just a very challenging time.

Gotta admit, most of the "normal" comments are very predictable.  At least we parents can expect some kind of behavioural climate.  Teenagers, for all their freedom and independance, tend to come home to roost, use all the hot water in the shower and load up the washing with vast quantities of clothing.  Why oh why did the Barbie Doll have to have so many outfits ?  Talk about a bad role model !

Adios, David.

[S_A_D_]

Rules, expectations and protocols are about control, and western parents stereotypically believe that control over teenagers is a good thing. Many say "the more the better. Discipline is everything." This has been implied in all other postings in this thread so far:

David's first post talks about how comparatively easy it was to discipline back in those days, implying that more drastic measures may be appropriate today, but this is not explicit.

Damien is somewhat vague, which I can understand. He has extensive experience looking at a variety of family constructs. His strategy for seeking mutual support is an extremely healthy dynamic, and usually seen exclusively in enriched families with money to burn and no illnesses or ailments. I am impressed that he has discouraged the use of punishment, and encouraged to keep your boy fully informed about your condition and how it affects him. Keep it up Damien.

Geoff seems to encourage discipline "without going too hard on him", whatever that means.

It seems like these guys are tiptoeing around you, Kellie, and encouraging you to use your best judgement. I suggest that the very fact you're on here asking for help means you recognise that your best judgement may be flawed, and you're seeking quality, factual information. This doesn't make me blunt, in fact my information is sharp as a razor and verified scientifically by researchers all over the world. I am being very forward, though, and require feedback from you as to whether you wish for me to continue providing information about this.

In the past 2 weeks I've read a dozen posts by young people about how controlling their parents are. Some more than others; some more controlling than mine were (and that's really saying something), but the general feel is that control is good.

I've also noticed that discipline and punishment are synonymous, or at least strongly positively correlated. Everyone seems to agree discipline is both good and necessary. There are many problems with using punishment.

• It does not erase an undesirable habit, merely suppresses it, which may lead to recurrence when it is believed no punishment will follow.
• the punishment may inadvertently result in an association between the person punishing and receiving punishment, leading to a fear relationship. 
• Punishment is ineffective unless administered immediately after undesirable behaviour, especially when teaching children. 
• If punishment follows the child admitting wrongdoing, it may discourage honesty. 
• Physical punishment is the same as abuse when administered with anger. 
• Children tend to imitate what they experience, so frequent punishment increases the likelihood they will be aggressive.
• Although punishment indicates what is inappropriate, it doesn’t stipulate what to do instead.
• If correct behaviour is stipulated it can be harder for the child to remember and replicate in the shadow of receiving a traumatic punishment experience.
• Half-hearted verbal discouragement may sometimes increase the undesirable behaviour if the child craves attention.

As you can all now see, I wasn't lying. I do in fact have a formal education on this subject.

If you can't make your parenting plan work on paper, in a logical, healthy way that is proven to be effective in other parenting environments on a consistent basis, what chance do you think you have of getting it right in the real world, where as David has so astutely implied, things get complicated when trying to apply plans.

Do you want to be able to expect a certain behavioural climate you do not enjoy, or do you want an unpredictable climate that is likely to be much more satisfying and enjoyable most of the time?

Do you want normal and controlling, or do you want to give your teenager a healthy sense of freedom and autonomy?

[The_Real_David_Charles]

Dear Facetious,

David (me, 50, 3 kids) and Geoff (100 in the shade, Lol, twins) are parents.  Damien works with teenagers.  You are 23 and a student.     We all have different approaches.  Diverse.  But yours has an agenda.

Not meaning to disrespect your vast effort in responding but I'm gonna listen to an experienced parent over someone who claims to "have a formal education of this subject".    A good parent is one that is there for the child.  Period.  It really doesn't need any explaination.  But in the interests of this discussion:

A parent would never use phrases like "parenting environments", "replicate in the shadow of receiving a traumatic punishment experience", "expect a certain behavioural climate"  or even "quality, factual information" (with the oberservation that you are "sharp as a razor and verified scientifically be researchers all over the world").    

Also, I wasn't aware that Geoff's advice of "not going too hard on him" is something that needs a bit of derision.    There is no "tiptoeing" around the subject, as you state.  Parents often talk in subjective nuances and experience great delight when finding out another parent has suffered a similar parental moment.    They do not sit around comparing essays on parenthood.

I would suggest an apology to Geoff.  Whatever that means.  Lol.

Adios,David.

[geoff]

dear Facetious, 'to encourage discipline "without going too hard on him", whatever that means', simply means what you have said, '

• If punishment follows the child admitting wrongdoing, it may discourage honesty. 
• Children tend to imitate what they experience, so frequent punishment increases the likelihood they will be aggressive.
  
• Sorry I was thinking what I knew, but I didn't elaborate. L Geoff. x
  
• 
  

[The_Real_David_Charles]

Dear Geoff,

Did you ever see "The Slap".   Contentious drama about a child being slapped by another parent (at a gathering) because the other parent found this particular child out of order so decided to step in with the discipline".   Bit of a minefield.  I've seen this at a supermarket when someone (yes, single) stepped up to a crying baby and yelled "SSSHHHUUUTTTT  UUUUPPPPP !" with bad humour.   The mum had her elderly parents with her, one in a wheelchair, a husband serving in Afghanistan and two other kids she was keeping an eye on.   The single person had a unit and zero tolerance for kids.  Who'd have thought a baby would be in a supermarket ?  Crazy stuff ?  Lol.

In my 23 yrs of parenting I've notice that a parent giving another parent advice is sometimes frowned on so a single person giving a parent advice (in Facetiouses case) seems a bit out there.   Mind you in the glossies it's common to come across domestic advice, i.e. "If you want to cool down boiled eggs after they're cooked put them in cold water and add a ton of ice".  I remember reading that one and being surprised that it received the $25 prize for Tip of the Month.   But, generally parental advice is gentle and not overly instructive.  Just saying,

I thought your comment was general knowledge.   For a parent.

Adios, David.