Suicidality and perimenopause

[Eagle Ray]

Has anyone else experienced severe suicidality in relation to perimenopause? Did anything particular help? There is apparently a strong association for some women.

 I had a major drop in oestrogen a year ago resulting in severe anxiety/depression/suicidal ideation then. It’s re-occurring now. I have complicating factors of c-ptsd and complicated grief. Saturday was the anniversary of my mother’s sudden and distressing death. I was extremely bad on Friday and early Saturday.

I’ve been calling helplines and had some practical help. It helps regulate me for a few hours then I start to disintegrate again. It’s a feeling of totally failing apart. I do have a psych appointment on Thursday and I’ve booked a counselling appointment with the Australian menopause society as well.

HRT may help but I have to look at how it will interact with my liver disease which can be a complicating factor. It’s a rare disease and not well understood or even known about by most medical practitioners. I just feel totally overwhelmed.

[Eagle Ray]

Hi and thank you indigo,

I’ve actually felt pretty unwell and was particularly ill on waking this morning. I think I’ve got a virus too from how I feel with fever-type symptoms. I did a Covid RAT test that came back negative. Very emotional and bursting into tears too which is the hormones. Have just been going through what my psychologist has put together for the DSP application which is very helpful. But the process also triggers me too. I see how I’ve desperately struggled alone my whole life. I was explaining to my psychologist how I have an overly competent adult part that had to always cope from a very young age, especially as my mother parentified me to be responsible for her while I had no one there for me. On the other hand I have a collapsing child in me that is that unparented child who is broken down and beyond exhaustion. I said to her my goal going forward is bridging and healing those two extremes - the ultra coping but exhausted and now failing to cope adult, and the collapsing, severely isolated child. I want to find the healthy middle ground and not live fluctuating between those two extremes.

 I’m sorry you’ve had the challenging people and situations this week. Sometimes a lot comes at once doesn’t it. Feel free to chat about it if it helps to get it off your chest. I’m glad today is a better day. I’m always here if you need to debrief, vent, chat…. Take care and thinking of you too 🙏

Hugs,

ER

[indigo22]

Hi ER,

I'm sorry to hear you are feeling unwell on top of everything else, but it doesn't surprise me, your body is going through a tough time and it's bound to feel overwhelmed. I hope you can get some rest and at least get on top of the flu symptoms. Sometimes our body just forces us to rest and that's not such a bad thing when you are exhausted.

I do hope that eventually you are able to bridge the gap between your child and adult selves, I understand why they both feel broken at the moment, but it won't always be this way.

The things I was dealing with this week are no big deal really, more exasperating than anything else. I don't deal well with childish and thoughtless behaviour from adults, I can't understand how people can be so ignorant of how their behaviour might affect others, I get angry and then start ruminating about it. I am feeling better now, mainly because I told the individuals that their actions were childish or thoughtless as the case may be. Perhaps it will give them something to think about, but I won't hold my breath.

Sending you hugs as well, hope you can get some rest.

indigo 🌹🌻🌺 🌼 🌷 (a cyber bouquet)

[Eagle Ray]

Thank you kindly indigo, including for the lovely cyber bouquet 🙏🤗

It was a good thing you were able to communicate your feelings and give feedback to the people who were behaving thoughtlessly and childishly. It can be unhealthy to stay stuck in rumination without the energy going anywhere except percolating inside yourself (says me speaking from experience). I have not been good at giving people feedback in many situations in the past, but I am getting better at speaking up for myself. But it is still an area that needs more work for me.

I had a mini meltdown earlier as I'm being triggered by the DSP process and in particular the fact that because of complex PTSD being part of it, aspects of my childhood that were abusive are going into to it to explain how I've ended up where I'm at now. I have always protected my parents despite things that they did to me, including emotional and physical abuse. My way of coping was to love and understand them. It's like I understood they were traumatised people from a very young age. But also as a child you will protect them before yourself because you need to in order to feel safe, because you need to understand them as ok at some level so you can avoid feeling you are going to be annihilated by the reality that your parents are not coping and abusive. So that pattern is still there in me and having certain info, however generalised in the application, makes me feel like I am betraying them at some level, even though they are no longer alive. It ripped me apart a short while ago, but I possibly have to break this part of myself open that still protects them more than I protect myself. Knowing how to advocate for myself is the hardest thing for me to do. I am terrible at it and have spent my life coping in isolation as the only way I know how to cope.

So I hurt at the moment, feel extremely raw and I seem to have a fever still as well, so in a weird, painful space. But I will have another pain reliever shortly which often helps with fevers. I had one this morning. I have as little medication now as possible because of my liver issues. Anyway, it is a heart breaking open moment that had to happen I think. It's one thing to tell something to a psychologist but another when it goes into official documentation. When I first went into therapy aged 30 I didn't dare say anything negative about my parents and didn't even bring them into the picture. It was coaxed out of me. And then after talking about them I remember buying them gifts at a market stall on the way home as I felt awful for having discussed things about them that were not positive. My parents had strong contradictions within them as people which, although I partially understand intellectually, I'm still coming to terms with emotionally today.

I think I just psychoanalysed myself. Ha ha! Anyway, I hope you have a lovely weekend indigo 🌸🌼🐠🦋💖

Hugs,

ER

[indigo22]

Hi ER,

In some small ways we have been through something similar. The dysfunction in my family could also be explained by their experiences growing up. However, that does not negate the damage they did that I am still dealing with. I was there for them when they needed me and loved them in a way that they had not loved me. I know you did the same.

I learned to be my own advocate through the appeal process with Centrelink and had to talk about a lot of that background stuff as well. I understand how triggering that must be for you, I also would like to help you understand that although what happened to you may not have been an intentional act and you understand the reasons why it happened, that does not negate the damage that was done to you that you are still dealing with.

You have no reason to feel guilt or shame for allowing the truth of what happened to you be known, think of it in a slightly different way. You loved and protected them while they were alive, now it is time to love and protect yourself and advocate for yourself since there is no one left to do it for you. This is not a betrayal of them, it is a betrayal of yourself if you don't speak your truth and give yourself the love and respect that you so deserve.

When I was diagnosed with cancer, there was no one left to support me through it. What got me through it was knowing that I had already made it through some of the worst things life could throw at me, so I could get through that as well.

I still have a long way to go, I still isolate myself to a large degree to protect myself but I am beginning to heal, albeit very slowly, and I can recognise some of the changes that are taking place.

I hope this helps a little.

Wishing you a restful weekend with perhaps a visit to your church.

indigo 💜

[Eagle Ray]

Dear indigo,

Thank you so much for your kind post, it really resonates. Just before reading it I had tears again thinking about the application process. I have fought so hard to be a well-functioning human being, and then there is a description of me with my current struggles for the purposes of the application that leave me feeling like this pathetic, failing person. The description is what I have explained to my psychologist, so it is the information I have given about my condition. But when I read it back I hear the labels I often copped as a child - pathetic, careless etc. It triggers my sense of being a useless human being. As a small child I was physically hit and screamed at out of nowhere and told I deserved it. So I guess the intense self-punishment that was instilled in me from a very early age (i.e. that I am rubbish) is all getting re-activated now. So I am listening to your words not to betray myself and I need to go back to support that frightened child in me that is still not sufficiently supported yet. Until that child is tended to I can't heal anyway. I think I tried to heal myself through relentless optimism before, but while that may have some temporary benefits it can ultimately be counter productive if there is a deeply injured child still inside of me.

I'm really sorry that you have had to struggle so much on your own too. You would have had to use incredible resourcefulness and resilience to get through the cancer treatment. I feel it is true, when you have had to endure really difficult life circumstances already, you have that knowledge that you have inner strength and coping capacity. I understand the self-isolating too as a form of self-protection. That is another thing going into one of the sub-headings in my application to do with my fear and self-isolation pattern. But rather than feeling ashamed about it I need to understand that that is my survival strategy and I literally cannot cope with anything right now that impinges on my capacity to rest and self-heal. My system is totally broken down and has taken a hammering from multiple life circumstances. I feel I am down to the basics of survival. When I went through a similar stage aged 30-33 I managed to pull through and somehow get back to work despite being heavily medicated for pain. I just can't get back to that functionality now.

Yes, I will do something to get out and be in nature this weekend. I still feel very ill. I did a second RAT test and that was negative too. But going to lie on a rock by the ocean, be amongst the birds etc will definitely help as it always does. Even just sitting on my back step watching birds does.

Thank you indigo, you have helped me very much 🙏💜

[indigo22]

Hi ER,

I just want to add something else that I forgot to put in my earlier post.

I have an idea how you think now and I am guessing part of the reluctance to apply for DSP is not only the triggering part of it but also the asking for help part of it, so it is that part I want to address.

After I had cared for the members of my family and they were all gone, I knew that I needed help and support but there was no one left to do that. It is why I applied for the DSP, because there was no one to fall back on. When you are alone in the world, you need to make sure your needs are met in whatever way is available to you. It is not possible to heal whilst constantly worrying about where your next meal is coming from, or if your power is about to be cut off. Neither of us would be applying for DSP without good reason and as far as I am concerned, finding a way back to health is the best reason of all.

You have not failed at anything, you just have never been given the right set of conditions to succeed.

Hope you are feeling a little better today,

indigo 💜

[Eagle Ray]

Thank you indigo 🙏

I did start to feel better last night. The fever died down and I didn’t feel so awful. Today I drove to a spot I like and went for a short 20 minute walk. My car then wouldn’t start multiple times. Called roadside assistance. Local rep from town was going to come out an hour and a half later when I managed to start it. He still came to check it once back in town. Probably linked to spark or fuel but not something he could solve after much effort. Has been long running issue on and off and will probably have to fail totally before it gets worked out.

But what it reminds me of is that aloneness and my dependence on an old car and my general vulnerability. So I hear what you are saying. I certainly have no one to fall back on. I think this has always been my normal in a way as there was no one emotionally there when a child and I had to learn problem solving very early. But I’m at a point of vulnerability now where my body keeps saying no when I try to push back into work. I tried barista training and was at the point of collapse two and a half hours into it from the extreme physical and cognitive fatigue I get. I went to the local hospital when they were looking for people, but the 8 hour shifts were quite demanding and could not be broken down with very little break. It also involved working in the hospice and having been in a full-on care role with my parents until they died I don’t think I was up to it emotionally. So I have really tried my guts out but when I struggle to make dinner and do my dishes I realise I am basically impaired in function.

So you are right, that I need to seek the support that is there. I will still be looking at ways to make some income on DSP within my limitations (assuming I’m granted it), but it is a safety net that will take the pressure off. I actually like to work and there is a kind of grief at losing that functionality. But I have to get creative within my limitations. It’s like I can only live one day at a time at the moment and it’s been that way for quite a while.

As you say, finding a way back to health is essential as without that there is nothing. I don’t know if you’ve ever read the book When the Body Says No by Gabor Mate, but that so applies to me. The lesson for me is to learn to really see myself and my needs because I’ve always been focused on others’ needs. I have an inner child who is still damaged and has a lot of healing and growing to do. I also have a liver disease that can progress to liver failure, so I have to do everything I can to support my health to try to prevent that level of progression.

At least my hormones feel slightly more balanced at the moment. The hormone therapy may be starting to kick back in. It can apparently take 3-4 months to really stabilise. I’ve still burst into tears multiple times today when grief has come up, but there is no way around grief only through it. I just have to feel whatever is there.

So thank you for reminding me I have not failed. Most feelings of failure I think link to other people’s expectations too. It’s very easy to fail to see what we’ve done right in life too. Thanks so much again for your support 💖

[MishyS]

Yes I’m pretty sure peri-menopause is having this effect on me too. The anti-depressants I’ve been on for the past five years suddenly don’t seem to work now.  I’m really struggling. 

[MishyS]

I’ve wondered the same thing about whether people can sense my sensitivity/ vulnerability and therefore view me as an easy target to project their stuff onto me. I’d like to think that if people saw someone who was vulnerable they’d tread gently but in my experience it seems the opposite.  Although you’re right; there are beautiful souls out there too. Perhaps it’s human nature that we ruminate on the ones who hurt us. 

[Eagle Ray]

Dear MishyS,

It’s really tough isn’t it. From what I’ve read some antidepressants are suited to perimenopause while others can have an agitating effect or not be effective with perimenopausal depression. There’s a good article called: “Depression: A major challenge of the menopausal transition” by Professor Jayashri Kulkarni. She is a psychiatrist who has been studying women’s mental health in relation to hormones for 30 years so has a lot of research insight plus runs a specialist clinic. The article is freely available online so might be worth looking up and you could maybe show it to your GP as they are not always aware of the unique nature of perimenopausal depression compared with other kinds. I’ve learned heaps from Dr Louise Newson’s podcasts which cover a wide range of issues linked to perimenopause and menopause. It’s really helped me feel less alone. Her organisation has an app called Balance too which I’ve found helpful.

In my case I’m trying hormone therapy with initially fantastic results including drastically improved mental health then a crash 2 weeks in (because of the cyclical nature of how it’s prescribed). Have amended that now to a different approach with support from my GP and feel I’m starting to get a little better finally again, though still somewhat erratic. Hence the insomnia right now writing this in the early hours.

Have you been able to talk with your GP about the antidepressants stopping working? If you think it is perimenopause it may be worth consulting a clinic that specialises in perimenopause, depending how much help you are able to get from your GP initially. I’m going to such a clinic soon as I feel I really need that specialist help, even though my GP has been kind and helpful, as my mental health state has been so tumultuous.

 I really hear you about being a sensitive soul. I’m learning that it really helps to connect with others with similar sensitivity and vulnerability as those people are kindred spirits where there is mutual understanding. It is much easier to feel safe and at ease around such people and I’m finding it’s best to avoid the insensitive ones whenever possible.

Take care MishyS and happy to chat more if it helps. Know that you are not alone in this journey.

Very best wishes,

Eagle Ray