Suicidality and perimenopause

[Eagle Ray]

Has anyone else experienced severe suicidality in relation to perimenopause? Did anything particular help? There is apparently a strong association for some women.

 I had a major drop in oestrogen a year ago resulting in severe anxiety/depression/suicidal ideation then. It’s re-occurring now. I have complicating factors of c-ptsd and complicated grief. Saturday was the anniversary of my mother’s sudden and distressing death. I was extremely bad on Friday and early Saturday.

I’ve been calling helplines and had some practical help. It helps regulate me for a few hours then I start to disintegrate again. It’s a feeling of totally failing apart. I do have a psych appointment on Thursday and I’ve booked a counselling appointment with the Australian menopause society as well.

HRT may help but I have to look at how it will interact with my liver disease which can be a complicating factor. It’s a rare disease and not well understood or even known about by most medical practitioners. I just feel totally overwhelmed.

[indigo22]

Hi ER,

I am so glad to hear from you, I was getting concerned about you.

It's good you have an appointment in March, I hope they can help you get your levels sorted out so you can start feeling good again. It's a long wait though, do you have a plan of action in the meantime? No need to be too specific, I will get the gist.

I really do think it would be in your best interest to apply for DSP, you are able to work a certain amount while on it so you could still look at your idea when you are feeling better but it will also take the pressure off if/when you are not feeling great. Please consider it.

It sounds like the shamanic group did you good, maybe doing that regularly will help you feel better in the interim.

I have a few of Joan's cds, I really like her too. She has some great album tracks so if you would like some recommendations, let me know.

I figured you would be somewhere in nature trying to restore some balance. I do hope you are feeling a lot better soon, you deserve to feel like you did in those first 12 days, all the time. That's my wish for you ER.

Take care and talk again soon,

Indigo

[Eagle Ray]

Thank you indigo,

Yes, I would be open to any recommendations of Joan Armatrading album tracks. She is such a diverse artist. I saw footage on YouTube of her first ever tv appearance in 1973. She was amazing then too and clearly a natural musician.

I will apply for the DSP. I don’t think I have any other options now. I’d been advised by an advocacy body that it is best to apply on either mental health grounds or physical health grounds but not both, as if they fail you in one they automatically fail you on the other. When I mentioned this to the health assessor from Centrelink on Monday she said this is definitely incorrect. She said they take all things into consideration as a total picture. Then yesterday the consultant from the disability employment agency advised I should follow the advocacy body and gave me a referral from to fill in for them to do the application with them. But my gut instinct tells me to follow the Centrelink advisor as it is direct from them and she was very helpful and clear in what she was communicating. I think I will be better doing the application independently rather than through the advocacy body.

 I have no plan exactly at the moment other than working towards the DSP application. Each day I feel I am just surviving minute by minute. I emailed to quit my volunteer work this morning as I am too unreliable. I am not sleeping much and just withdrawing inwards. It is the only way I can feel safe, to withdraw from the world.

 The people in the shamanic/spiritual healing group are the loveliest people. They are like a lifeline. They were to me last year as well. They have an online meeting once a month I will keep attending. I just try to hold onto things like that as a reason to keep going. Part of me is really wanting to die. Yesterday by the ocean I met these cute little green parrots I sometimes encounter there. I feel like if I keep living I can still see them. It is small things like that that keep me going. I only have myself to keep myself alive and sometimes I can’t do it anymore. I have always been in this isolation from birth onwards. I feel so isolated.

Thanks for your support xx

[indigo22]

Hi ER,

The thing you most need to hold on to is that you can feel well, now that you have experienced that for a short time, you know it is possible. Having the dosages right for your body will make all the difference, you have managed to hang on until now, just hang on a little longer for the sun to come out again.

I'm am glad you have decided to apply for DSP, I have no doubt you will meet all the criteria to be successful with your application. I am also glad you met with one of the few people at Centrelink that has your best interests at the fore, that's a rare occurrence in my experience.

I'll get back to you with some of Joan's tracks you might like.

Take care,

indigo

[Eagle Ray]

Thank you indigo,

The person at Centrelink took down my whole history. It’s the first time I’ve had the chance to do that. You don’t normally get to provide much info or talk to them.

I hope I can feel well again. It is getting harder and harder for me to communicate so if I disappear for periods of time it’s just that my whole system is shutting down. I know it is linked to hormones that are acting as like an on-off switch. Other women on the community app I’m on have described exactly the same thing. I can sit in the same place for hours unable to move my body.

At the moment I feel horrendous. I have to drive to a nearby town for an errand but I will take my telephoto lens and sit by the river as there are always small birds there. It doesn’t matter if I can’t move as they come to you I find. Things like that are honestly my lifeline. I try to keep going so I can still see and experience those things. I am basically totally distraught and it’s relentless. And it’s not something you can talk about as no one discusses this type of depression in everyday life. You have to manage in silence and the other women I’ve been talking to have found this. The community app is extremely important in this way. Many of the women are considering leaving their job even when they love their job. They just can’t function anymore. Some have been sectioned under the mental health act in the UK. Others are accessing crisis services. I’m reading all this on the community app but no one talks about it in everyday life. I know going to hospital will definitely deteriorate me further and that there’s very little understanding about perimenopausal depression in psychiatry. I know I am better off trying to survive independently. I just try to hang onto the threads of the things that are meaningful to me.

There’s some lovely more recent Joan Armatrading songs. She said she writes about what she observes in everyday life. There’s something really emotionally powerful about her songs and delivery. Two acoustic ones that I found moving are Not Too Far Away and Loving What You Hate. I particularly like the In Session live acoustic versions. Then she totally rocks out as well Hendrix-style on Heading Back to New York City. She’s an awesome guitarist.

Thank you and bye for now,

ER xx

[Croix]

Dear ER~

I was gladdened to see your post, you had inspired me to remember a misty morning by a lake, so I jotted it down

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/staying-well/store-your-happy-memories-here/td-p/265309/page/99

Having other on that app sounds a godsend, to have others who are the same, and have the same problems being treated or understood can make one fell not only less alone, but also less "the only one in the world like that" -a horrible discouraging feeling. Maybe there is some hope there or at least reasonable expectations of your capabilities.

There are plenty of worse things to live for than the richness of nature, it somehow appeals and heals deep down.

Good luck with Centerlink, it sounds encouraging and I hope things sort out.

Croix

[Eagle Ray]

Dear Croix,

Thank you so much for your kind message. I did go out today and I spent quite a bit of time photographing a male Common Bronzewing pigeon who wasn't shy at all and posed for me multiple times in between pecking about for food in the soil. They have the most beautiful iridescent colours on their side.

I had a triggering incident today which was very hard to take when I was already struggling with intense depression. I won't go into the details here but I couldn't stop shaking so I immediately called the Suicide Callback Service. It is the third time I have called them and every time it has been phenomenal. They are extremely good at grounding you. When I first called my stress levels were sky high and by the end they were just moderate. They help you really access the resources you have in yourself to deal with things. Due to the incident today I now have a big mess to deal with tomorrow through no fault of my own. It is a situation that requires me to be quite assertive but I am feeling it - assertive that is. I got great support from the counsellor on the helpline as I explained my action plan for dealing with the situation. The fact I could even articulate that was really helped by her manner and capacity to be present and engage in a concise, compassionate way.

Thank you for the link to your happy memory. I have read it, it is lovely and I will respond later tomorrow (actually today now time wise).

Thank you for your ever kind presence and thoughtfulness. I might be able to sleep now. It's amazing how much difference kindness makes.

Bye for now and hugs,

ER

[indigo22]

Hi ER,

I hope today is a better day for you.

These are some of my favourites of Joan from 1976 - 1990

Love and Affection

Down to Zero

Opportunity

Willow

Show Some Emotion

Bottom to the Top

All the way from America

I'm Lucky

The Weakness in Me

Only One

Rosie

More Than One Kind of Love

Free

She may have done some of these in the live show you watched, others are album tracks that I doubt she plays live. Let me know which ones you like. I will have a listen to some of her later tracks when I get a chance.

I think you would also like Tracy Chapman, I have a few of her albums too, she is quite unique like Joan.

You are in my thoughts,

indigo 💜

[Fiatlux]

Hi ER,

The community app sounds like a wonderful idea. I wished that I had more information about menopause when I was still in my 40’s. I knew that it was going to happen but had no idea what was going to happen except for the hot flushes and no one really described these accurately let alone spoke about the anxiety and depression that it can cause and the suicidal thoughts. I think that last year I hit rock bottom and was desperate to get this fixed.

I don’t know if we are even allowed to speak of the side effects now from HRT, Which can also cause depression and anxiety. I have in the last week, looked at myself and my body and noticed the awful weight gain that apparently is mostly water retention. This too is upsetting. I also feel tummy bloating. It’s even evident in the morning. This is new to me. 

I hadn’t eaten until after 12noon and I was care to have a small gluten free breakfast but this hasn’t helped. I made a roast chicken and did some fried rice this afternoon but I just don’t have an appetite. I have been drinking more water than usual and this hasn’t helped.

Tomorrow will be the second week that I started on a different HRT dose and I don’t think this is right for me.

At the moment I can’t tell what is worse, pre HRT or post HRT menopause. 

After reading your posts, I hope you are doing better today. Fiatlux 🙏🏼

[Eagle Ray]

Dear indigo,

Thank you so much for the recommendations. I know and love Love and Affection, Down to Zero, Willow, All the Way From America and The Weakness in Me. I will have a listen to the others too.

She has such amazing song craft and can play across so many genres. I listened to some interviews and podcasts with her too and she is such a positive, lovely and down to earth person. She seems very grounded and at peace with herself. She is on the one hand a shy and private person, while at the same time being very personable and strong at the same time, like she is in balance. I had to deal with a difficult and confusing situation in the last couple of days and I thought about her groundedness and that helped me deal with the situation. I thought, well how would a calm but assertive woman like Joan handle this and it definitely helped. I also channeled the energy of the good people I had a meeting with the other day who are such decent, open, lovely people. So that energy helped me too. I basically had to make a formal complaint about a serious matter and was able to communicate clearly and effectively and get a good outcome. It was a very weird situation and I’m in slow recovery from a migraine today which I think is definitely partly linked to the stress I just went through. Migraines are quite common once a stressor starts to alleviate.

I really like Tracy Chapman too. I actually saw her in concert in 1989 when I was 14. It was just her and her guitar. It was in a big entertainment centre with a huge crowd who were on the rowdy side, which didn't really fit that well with her acoustic songs as people were so intrusive yelling out a lot in the middle of songs. She seemed quite shy and I imagine it was pretty full on becoming a worldwide star very quickly and performing in front of large crowds. Her debut single Fast Car was such a beautifully crafted song to make her entry into the music world with.

I hope you are having a lovely weekend indigo.

Hugs,

ER

[Eagle Ray]

Dear Fiatlux,

I can recommend the Balance Menopause website by Newson Health and the associated app. Dr Lousie Newson is at the forefront of treating perimenopause and menopause in the UK. She has a podcast too which is incredibly helpful and informative. It has honestly saved me. The information there has helped explain what is going on for me. Hearing other people's stories of their mental health collapse in perimenopause really crystallised what is happening for me. They were describing the same sudden, confusing plunge into extreme anxiety, depression and distress that I've been experiencing. The associated app has a community on it where people post and support one another, asking questions etc. There's a lot of really suffering people out there with major alterations to their health and lives from hormonal changes.

I don't know either what I can say about HRT etc. I've been cautioned so I don't feel I can talk much about it here. People's responses to it are so variable, some people getting opposite effects to others which must be to do with individual hormonal profiles and patterns. I think going to a specialist clinic for women's health is potentially helpful, which I am doing in a couple of months. I'm finding that there are clinics out there geared to treating menopausal symptoms. I'm wondering if that may be helpful for you if what you are on now doesn't feel right. I feel that trusting how your body is feeling and responding is important.

On the mental health side I've found Prof Jayashri Kulkarni's research and info extremely helpful. There is a freely available journal article she has written called "Depression: a major challenge of the menopause transition" in Medicine Today. If you google that you should be able to find it. She is trying to upskill people such as GPs so they are actually aware of the nature of perimenopausal and menopausal depression and some of the options for treating it, while also getting this info out to people in this stage of life. She takes a biopsychosocial approach which is so important in recognising the interrelationship of everything. She has found women with a trauma history are more prone to hormonal dysregulation and perimenopausal depression.

I really hope you can get some good help to balance things out. Sometimes things have to be tweaked in one direction or another. I had incredible benefits initially but the cyclic change in dosage seemed to really mess everything up again. But I'm researching it all the time and learning new things.

Take care and I hope you can have a restful weekend,

Hugs,

ER