Suicidality and perimenopause

[Eagle Ray]

Has anyone else experienced severe suicidality in relation to perimenopause? Did anything particular help? There is apparently a strong association for some women.

 I had a major drop in oestrogen a year ago resulting in severe anxiety/depression/suicidal ideation then. It’s re-occurring now. I have complicating factors of c-ptsd and complicated grief. Saturday was the anniversary of my mother’s sudden and distressing death. I was extremely bad on Friday and early Saturday.

I’ve been calling helplines and had some practical help. It helps regulate me for a few hours then I start to disintegrate again. It’s a feeling of totally failing apart. I do have a psych appointment on Thursday and I’ve booked a counselling appointment with the Australian menopause society as well.

HRT may help but I have to look at how it will interact with my liver disease which can be a complicating factor. It’s a rare disease and not well understood or even known about by most medical practitioners. I just feel totally overwhelmed.

[Croix]

Dear ER~

I know you visit went well and I'm very glad, to have received sensitivity and also another that understood your ailments properly are milestones.

I go sense your feelings towards you body and also possible reactions. I have reactions too as I've probably mentioned to you - htat helps me understand.

It prompts me to say one thing. Many people say 'Be kind to yourself', which I have reservations about as it sometimes implies something negative -I can't explain it very well. I would say 'Treat yourself with fairness' instead. Both mental and physical wounds should be regarded in the same way

If though no fault of their own someone broke a leg it would not be kind to not expect them to avoid they could not climb right then, just pragmatic fairness. The same applies to mental injuries.

Imaptience and frustration is ok

You are a very balanced person and I admire that, using the effect of raindrops is lovely.

Croix

[Eagle Ray]

Thank you kindly Croix,

What you say makes so much sense, that we wouldn’t expect someone to walk on a broken leg while in recovery and it’s really understandable we may not be able to do certain things with trauma in the body. I think I also understand the discomfort with the saying “be kind to yourself”. I know I have said that to others and in theory I get the value of it for myself, but I also get the discomfort and saying something less direct than that is sometimes easier.

As usual my replies to indigo yesterday didn’t appear until today so you may not have read those, but I was explaining how I have to go through a medical procedure today that while routine for some is triggering for me. Right now I’m lying in bed as it approaches 6am and have that sick to my stomach feeling. It is trauma-related. What you have said helps me as I can’t possibly expect myself to simply feel differently, like a person with a broken leg cannot just get up and walk. It’s ok to feel sick and scared and it’s actually logical in the context. I realise I’m going to have to be honest today and tell the medical people I’m scared but also be accepting of myself that way rather than being hard on myself on top of already feeling fear.

I’m staying at the back of someone’s place in the city and they have chickens in their garden. I have decided my distraction for dealing with today will be chickens and how funny they can be with their bok bok bgerking! Which reminds of the joke about the chickens and frogs you told on the jokes thread 😂 That will make me feel better.

Hugs,

ER

[indigo22]

Hi ER,

I do hope that the medical staff were patient and empathetic today, how did you go getting through the procedure? I understand to some degree as I am not at all comfortable with invasive procedures either, but there is not the fear attached for me as there is for you. You were in my thoughts today and I hope you are now resting and allowing your nervous system a chance to settle.

The book you mentioned is in my reading list, just haven't got to it yet. I have been reading about IBS and related issues and found an author by the name of William Salt, a Gastroenterologist of 45 years who is very informative with the way things are connected. I have found myself thinking of you many times while reading his work. The book I am reading at the moment is called You're on Fire, it's quite a large book in which he goes into a lot of detail and will make updates available. Some of it you may already be familiar with but I think he would be worth a look into when you have a chance as he talks about Fibromyalgia and Migraine which I know you deal with. I am only about a quarter of the way into it at the moment but I did read a shorter book of his on IBS prior to starting this one. There is also a third book called Still Hurting? Find Health. If I remember correctly, his website is called For Your Gut or something similar.

Thank you too for all the support you give to me, it is a two way street and I so enjoy our conversations.

Sleep well

indigo 💜

[Eagle Ray]

Hi indigo,

Thank you. It was painful but I got through it ok and the medical person was kind. It’s still painful and from past experience it will get worse for a couple of days before starting to improve again. It just has a lot of trauma connected and was the most debilitating pain I’ve had back in 2005-2008, so I kind of go back to that time when it is triggered. But I went to the ocean late this afternoon. I took my camera and it really helped. It takes my mind off the discomfort for a while. The condition can be improved by hormone medication and I think the meds I’m on are helping in that regard as it wasn’t as excruciating as previous experiences.

The Dr William Salt books and website sound interesting. I will definitely have a look. The gut is definitely crucial to so many things. Peter Levine talks about it as well in relation to the vagus nerve. One of his simple calming tools is chanting a low “voo” sound. The low frequency massages the guts and this sends a calming message to the vagus nerve to go into parasympathetic rest-and-digest mode. It can help people when chronically stressed or overwrought with anxiety. He did it with emergency room nurses during the worst period of Covid and it helped them to be able to carry on with their work in such difficult circumstances. I’ve used it too when sitting in nature, especially at my favourite place by the ocean. It often does lead to an immediate release of trauma, so much so I’ve actually thrown up several times. But I get what my body is doing. I find a lot of emotion can come up too, so just good to be aware of that if you try it, but again it’s just emotion coming out that was stuck, often chronically. The relationship between our gut and emotions is incredibly powerful.

It’s lovely to chat with you too and good to connect with someone drawn to similar things and also on the healing journey. May you sleep well too 🙏😴🤗

[indigo22]

Hi ER,

I seem to be having a bit of a hard time pulling myself out of the slump at the moment, I am sure it will get better but some days I just don't feel like communicating which I am sure you understand.

I hope you are feeling better now that the procedure is out of the way. Have you had any results as yet? 

I am still reading William Salts work and have seen many of the issues you have spoken about referred to. One of the things that stands out is the dilemma of what is causing what ie. Is the mental health disorder causing the somatic symptoms? Or are the somatic symptoms causing the mental health disorder? Kind of like the chicken and the egg. I have stopped reading Your on Fire for the moment as it was a lot to take in and I am currently reading the other book Still Hurting? Find Health, which is a bit easier to take in but still has a lot of information that is relevant.

I am due to see my psych this weekend so it will be good to talk over some of the things I have been reading about. We should be taught some of this in school to prepare us for life, would be much more helpful in adulthood than learning about historical wars for example.

I hope you are having a good day, please forgive me for being a bit sporadic with my posts at the moment.

indigo 💜

[Croix]

Dear Indigo22 (wiht a wave to ER)~

As you have thoght the physical symptoms brought on by mental issues tend to have a life of their  own and by their pain and inconvenience cause extra stress which in turn is not helpful for the  original issues as it simply adds more pressure.

Trying to think when held back by a headache, having to navigate with a toilet always withing reach, and many other examples make life that much harder and at the same time (at least in my case) erode self worth.

I'm lucky in my psych treats both the physical symptoms (reasonably successfully) as well as the underlying PTSD etc. I think when the symptoms can definitely be seen as caused by a mental condition this two-way approach is sensible.

There is no need to worry about being sporadic, it comes with the territory.

I too wish more of the practical aspects of living life were taught in schools, history etc are fine, but should not be at the expense of knowing waht to expect and how to cope wiht it. Perhaps there is a movement in that direction, 'the concept and rules of  consent' is now taught in many schools.

I hope you have a productive and comfortable visit with your Psych

Croix

[Eagle Ray]

Hello indigo and Croix,

It may be that you are still in processing mode indigo, especially after the somatic experiences you had. I find when my body has just had a major release of something there can be a kind of processing and recalibration that goes on for some weeks. Sometimes during that time I do feel in a kind of slump as it’s like I need the energy for the reprocessing. Although I’ve not had EMDR I’ve heard that can happen with that. Sometimes you are going through the process of integrating memories and experiences that up until that point had not fully integrated. So I don’t know if that’s what’s happening but it’s a possibility.

I do understand very much about the not feeling up to communicating. Please don’t worry about being sporadic or feeling you need to respond. I’m glad you are seeing your psych soon and it should help in processing and making sense of things.

I do not have results as yet and probably won’t until June when I see the specialist. I’m not expecting anything of concern as I think it was mainly precautionary on her part. It was more the fear of the severe pain similar investigations have caused in the past, often for weeks afterwards. Fortunately this time it has not been too bad.

Croix I’m glad your psych can look at both the mental and physical. I feel they are always connected and really the same thing in many ways. I think Descartes did the world a disservice when he suggested the mind is separate. The neuroscientist Antonio Damasio wrote a book called Descartes’ Error which I actually have but haven’t got around to reading yet. I think it is considering the separation Descartes made between rationality and emotion which then led to a lack of insight into the relationship between emotion and biology. When of course emotion is biology in action.

Take care both and may you have a lovely week 🙏🌼

[Croix]

Dear ER and Indigo`

I cant resit it -see Worst Joke Wednesday 🙂

Croix

[Eagle Ray]

Very good Croix! I read your Descartes joke 😂

[indigo22]

Hi ER and Croix,

I hope you have both had a good week.

I understand the words you have both so kindly offered and I do feel that the circular effect that you talked about Croix, is part of the reason I am in a slump. I also think you are right ER in saying that things are still integrating.

I had a good discussion with my psych about how I have been feeling and we talked about my low energy which I now believe is chronic fatigue mainly because I have been feeling this way ever since the last family member died. I mentioned to her that during the most stressful time I was drinking 6 mugs of strong coffee a day to keep myself going and smoking 50 cigarettes a day to cope with everything that was going on. Her mouth dropped and she said she now understands that I depleted all my resources during that time so we now need to look at ways to build them back up again. As much as I do agree that the tapping session helped me to move some of the stuck emotion, I also think it took a lot out of me. Hoping that in the coming weeks I will get on top of the slump.

I read your joke too Croix 😅

Talk again soon,

indigo 💜