Intellectual existence

[alasdayr]

I have been living the treadmill for a while now.  I have a nice house, a stable job, a faithful wife that cares about me and our family and an adult daughter.

Following a bout of major depression, I have anhedonia (avolition, but no anergia).  I have energy to get things done that I see need doing.

Nothing makes me feel good more than momentarily.
Most pleasurable activities make me crave discomfort (or worse).
My mood is generally flat and I do not feel much in the way of emotion (happy, sad, angry, jealous, etc..).
I have nothing I want to achieve.
I have nothing that I want to do.
I have nowhere I want to go.
I have no people I want to meet.
Helping others does not make me feel good.
Achieving things seems hollow.
I have no fear of dying.
I have no fear of pain (also a very high pain tolerance).
About most things I truly do not care.

I have an entire alphabet of mental health conditions diagnosis (ASD, CPTSD, OCD, BPD, MDD, PDD).  I have had another alphabet worth of treatment (CBT, DBT, EMDR, ACT, Schema, TMS).  Some are still ongoing.

I have an upbringing of care for family and self sacrifice.  I take care of myself so I can do things for family so they remain comfortable.  Its all done by rote.  I have been taught/trained over my treatments not to self harm.  I often think about it...  These thoughts do not worry or disturb me.  I keep busy so I don't dwell on them.  My family wants and needs me.

I have been in constant mental health care over the past 4 years.  I have been in hospital numerous times.  I have been on (and am now off) antidepressants.  I regularly see psychologists and a psychiatrist.  I will ask my psychiatrist for another round of TMS next time we meet.

I have a lot to be thankful for.  I have more than a lot of people.  I am in good physical health.  I seem to avoid misfortune.
I don't feel worthy of my good fortune.



Is this as good as it gets?
 

[smallwolf]

hi again, and I hope you don't mind my asking...

you said that your "core beliefs include honoring duty to family" and they "need and want me". The first part (the core beliefs) were instilled in me, and I don't think that is a bad thing, but there was also loyalty to work as well. Regarding the second part, that was something that was said in regard the small businesses I worked with - and of course there were issues outside of my control. I would have this internal fight with myself about where I should be or what I should be doing come the end of the day.

You might be wondering what has this to do with you? When I read that I saw myself as not being able to do things that I liked or were good for me. I had been doing too much for others, than myself. And at some point in I (you in the plural sense) run out of gas.

I hope from my reply, and hopefully wrong, but you do give yourself some time and breathing space to look after yourself?

[alasdayr]

smalllwolf,

Thank you again for your reply.

I find I cannot look after others if I do not look after myself.  I do all the basics to keep me capable of helping others (shower, visit doctors, take prescribed medication, eat sensibly, moderate exercise/activity, earn an income, etc...).  On the earn an income part, business skills have taught me how to ignore or plan around what is not in my control.  So much so that it is one of the skills I am paid well for; and am frequently called upon to use to help other customers.

The demands/requirements of others are minimal and I have ample free time.  However, I have no clue as to what to do with the free time.  I have nothing that makes me feel happy/fulfilled/content.  Nowhere I want to go.  No one I want to meet.  Thing that used to feel good/bring pleasure, prior to 2020, don't seem to now.  Dec 2019 was when I stated getting mental health treatment.  As expected, everything that happened around COVID was a major disruptor.

Back on topic; meeting people, even people I am comfortable with and have known for a long time, makes me feel tired.  I seem to be able to cope with being "social" for only a short period of time.

My "no-demands" place seems to be a clean and ordered space with no-one around (not even family).

One of my diagnosis is OCD.  I have routines that avoid discomfort.  Unfortunately they do not bring me pleasure or contentment, only avoid discomfort.  One plus side of depression on OCD is that you no longer care (or feel stress) if a routine is disrupted.

I am continuing to look for a way forward, a way lets me feel hope.  I have another round of TMS scheduled, that may help.  I will continue to be there for my family.

Alasdayr

[smallwolf]

I think I get it when you said "My "no-demands" place seems to be a clean and ordered space with no-one around (not even family)"

I interpret this being your happy place (for lack of a better phrase) is that the case for me. when I go on holidays with family that being "alone" and without demand from anyone is my happy place - it means I can read a book, say for hours on end, because that is a time when I am not call upon by anyone to do something. 

Most pleasurable activities make me crave discomfort (or worse).

Also, and from your original message you said -

My mood is generally flat and I do not feel much in the way of emotion (happy, sad, angry, jealous, etc..).
Helping others does not make me feel good.
Achieving things seems hollow.

I intentionally selected the above items as they were things that I have felt. These stem from my childhood and I can write about that in a separate post. As an aside, I also had/have difficulty in accepting compliments as I could always add a "but" to that.

what sort of things used to bring you joy? Or were fun for you?

(if you don't mind my asking)

[alasdayr]

Thank you again smallwolf for replying.

In visualization exercises, my "safe place" is alone on a tropical beach.  A "no-demands" place is as close to a "happy place" as I can get at present.  I cannot seem to find anything (place/person/activity/object) that makes me feel what I remember "happy" as being.

I have learned outwardly how to accept compliments (whether I believe them or not).  I can truly accept that the compliment is genuine and believed by the giver of the compliment.   I have also learned how to "sell my strengths".  This is a business imperative required to get better work and pay.

What used to bring me happiness?  Listening to music, Working towards and achieving challenging goals (that I thought were worthwhile), Solving puzzles, Intimate physical relations.

Eyesight problems makes reading for extended periods of times a challenge.  I never really got in to reading.  I did used to enjoy listening to audiobooks (dependent on whether I could relate to the story).

Oddly enough, I found SH and healing from SH comforting.  I know that it is dangerous, not sustainable and possibly limiting in my ability to do what is required for my family.  These are the reasons why I don't.  I still feel the desire at times.

Thank you for asking questions.  I will continue to respond.

I am continuing to work on finding a way back to pleasurable feelings.  With luck, my story resonates with others.  Should I manage to walk this path to a successful resolution, the record of my journey may inspire people.

Alasdayr

[smallwolf]

On compliments... it took me about a year to learn to accept a compliment. To get to that point I would have to learn to say "thank you, full stop" out loud (around certain people) to stop from going down the "but" path. That was about 3 years ago now. I always found it easy to dismiss what someone said. I sometimes still go down that but road but not as often these days.

Music, Puzzles and Games are things - Musically it is metal of the doom, death variety as it feels like a companion that understands how I feel at that time. Puzzles are things like Sudoku and Wordle. My psychologist recommended that I install "virtual hope box" on my phone it contained a few games that acts as distractions including Sudoku. It certainly helped me to ride the ways of depression.

Hope you had an ok day.

[Barramundai]

Hey smallwolf and alasdayr,

Thank you both for the replies and continuing the conversation. I like alasdayr's approach to business "ignore or plan around what is not in my control" I want to do more of this in my personal life as that can bring me major anxiety.

Also, what brings happiness? Well for me, I don't even know what brought me happiness before, I remember being happy a few times when I was travelling AUS in a caravan in my 20s. I did it for 3 years, its funny though, I seem to have been the happiest in my life when I had the least amount of things, a Car, Caravan, Dog and some fishing rods. Or even at university, in a share house on aus-study barely making it week to week. But now the treadmill of life is almost overwhelming, insurances, house, maintenance, toddler, partner etc etc, but I'm the most comfortable I've ever been.

I've spoken to a psychologist before, maybe a year ago through EAP as my work offers free sessions, I feel like she told me all the generic things to help me get 'better', you know, plan me time, plan family time, do this, do that, she was kind of pushy, even gave me homework, so I have never been back.

Anyway, after a long discussion with my partner on my recent feelings and thoughts that have been getting darker and darker, I have decided to fight the 'cancer' in my mind. I consider instead of hurting myself with drinking or descending into dark thoughts, that I use that sadness, despair and sometimes anger for exercise, so I have been pushing myself physically in the gym and with cardio. So far it is really helping, it might just be a distraction, but the discomfort and pain I feel in the gym or riding a bike until exhaustion is somehow helping.

alasdayr have you thought about doing something similar, facing discomfort in a certain scenario? Maybe slight discomfort can be healthy. 

smallwolf "Most pleasurable activities make me crave discomfort (or worse)."  What do you mean by this? 

BTW I used to play card games a lot for my distraction.

[alasdayr]

smallwolf,

Thank you again for replying.

I used to do a lot of sudoku.  Unfortunately, for me now, it is more a time filler than a challenge.  I'll do one occasionally (usually one rated "hard" or tougher).  It does occupy my mind as I don't use pencil marks and juggle all the possibilities in my head.  (I have "Virtual Hope Box" on my phone, on the front page in fact, and occasionally use it when I remember).

In taking compliments, I know to respond with a genuine thank you and not feel the need to downplay the compliment or struggle to find a compliment to return.  Internally accepting a compliment is always harder.

My mind currently disassembles music.  I digest the multiple components of the music separately but simultaneously.  Its like analyzing it for thesis.  The artistry, though appreciated, tends to get lost.  So does the any emotional attachment.  I used to enjoy music, now it's more tiring.

Barramundai,

Making the decision to fight this 'cancer of the mind', is a fantastic first step.  Having help from your partner is a huge help.  Have them help keep you honest and on track.  From everything I have seen this type of depression is beatable.

Exercise is great for the brain.  It stimulates so many positive areas and is often an effective treatment for depression.  You are correct in that I need to do more of it.  I try keep occupied, so I should make it a priority item in the never ending to do list.

My history, unfortunately, also involves body dysmorphia (distorted perception of physical self image).  I need to be very careful with diet and exercise as going off the deep end is as easy for me as it is for a reformed alcoholic to slip back into drinking.  I usually have no appetite and must remember to eat.  Combine this with a propensity for excessive exercise because of want for discomfort (like your riding till exhaustion).

The term "crave discomfort (or worse)" was actually mine from earlier in this thread and refers to seriously contemplating acting on my darkest thoughts.

TMS for me starts tomorrow or Friday.  It is also time away from home (inpatient), so I will have to adjust to a new routine.  Everyone around me is hoping this helps at least as much as it did last time I had it.

Alasdayr

[smallwolf]

I can sense a bitter-sweetness (?) in your words about how some activities that used to bring you joy and stimulation have shifted in nature over time. It's understandable to feel a tinge of sadness when pursuits that once challenged and delighted you become routine and/or mentally draining.

With sudoku, it seems the thrill of grappling with those complex puzzles has waned somewhat, though I'm glad you still find the harder ones provide a decent mental,

It's really great to find another user that has Virtual Hope Box to provide an outlet when needed. Do you play the word finder puzzle?

It's all too easy to brush off praise. Accepting it wholeheartedly, especially internally, is an ongoing journey for many, myself included. The reason I went through a "thank you" out loud (and sometimes adding "fullstop" if I knew you well enough). Part of my reason for this exercise and why I did not accept compliments was that I did not believe I deserved them, based on experiences when I was younger. And the person saying it had an ulterior motive.)

What you described about how your mind now analyzes the technical components of music, almost clinically dissecting it, was poignant. Instead of being immersed in the artistry and emotional resonance, it becomes more of an intellectual exercise. I can imagine that feeling a bit disheartening! There are a couple of music related channels I follow on YouTube and from those I have tried to listen to other instruments in the music. This may be intellectual (?) but I am happy when I can hear something more than a guitar and drums.

Do you play any instruments?

[alasdayr]

I used to play piano.  I started learning when I was getting over a bout of chronic fatigue (and depression) in my 20s. I found, with practice, I could play quite complex pieces, but never mastered sight reading or playing by ear.  Could not improvise, always needed to have a plan or objective.

I also used to edit music for ice skating routines.  I would blend music together, match timings and phrasings of different pieces, and ensure highlights occurred at defined time intervals.  While doing this I would need to understand the components of the source pieces I was manipulating.

It seems like I cannot get out of this music cutting analysis mode.

Unfortunately, a lot of modern music is very heavy on drums, lead electric guitar and keyboard.  Vocals are often manipulated to get them properly on-key.  Base guitar is harder to pick out, but often there.  Cinematic, orchestral and classical music have more substance, but for me it is more hard work than enjoyment.

TMS seems to be starting to help.  It is targeted at reducing symptoms of depression and OCD.  It is still early in the schedule of treatment.  I am getting short periods of something amongst the nothing.  Don’t know a better way to describe it.  

Thank you for your reply and candor.  I will continue my quest for hope.

Alasdayr

[therising]

Hi alasdayr

Some brilliant and relatable posts here from a number of amazing people. Life experience, a heartfelt sense of compassion, brainstorming for reasons/causes behind depression and/or not being able to feel and so much more are brilliant resources. When everyone comes together in some relatable way, depression doesn't feel quite as lonely.

With you mentioning COVID as being disruptive, I've spoken with a few people who said it feels like they never fully switched back on, emotionally, after COVID lock downs. Personally, I can relate. Living in Melbourne with all the lock downs, something changed and things haven't felt the same since then. Another thing a few people have mentioned is how time hasn't felt the same since the lock downs. A lot of people seemed to have lost their sense of time, myself included. While the lock downs had obvious side effects, regarding mental health, I don't think the residual effects are being studied well enough. Would be interesting to see what studies are out there and the findings that have come out of them. I'm sure the lock downs acted as some kind of emotional circuit breaker. You can't just get certain people to stop feeling and then expect them to magically start feeling again, without some conscious way of doing it. During the lock downs, we stopped feeling the joy that comes with meeting up with people, the excitement that comes with adventuring beyond a 5km radius, the peace that comes with traveling to nature (whether it be the hills or the beach) and so on. With the longing and all the feelings that had to be suppressed in such an ongoing way, it definitely all became depressing to different degrees. Add to this some of the bad habits we were led to develop (through mental and physical self preservation), ones that aren't necessarily good for energy production, and there's a twofold effect.

While the prediction for 2020 was 'It will be the year where we're led to gain 20/20 vision (greater insight)', none of us saw COVID lock downs coming, that's for sure. I think while there were benefits to the insight we gained, when it comes to what life's really about, there was also a down side to becoming more conscious. While a lot of us never fully realised the benefits of quality time with people, how therapeutic and exciting adventure can really be, how nature can provide a sense of peace etc, losing those resources during lock downs made it all much clearer. It was definitely an insightful year in this sense. The problem is...once we start waking up to a lot of things, waking up doesn't necessarily stop. There's no going back to sleep. So, suddenly becoming more conscious of how triggering the media is, becoming more conscious of how shallow people can now appear to be, becoming more conscious of what it really means to feel is like addressing just the tip of an emotional iceberg. While ignorance can be bliss to some degree, waking up or becoming more conscious can kind of feel like hell on earth at times, while being seriously hard to navigate. Nothing quite like a group of highly supportive people to help get a better sense of the way up and out.