I have a problem with CBT

[Outside observing]

I have a problem with CBT.

CBT is always telling me to reframe my thoughts. Its kind of invalidating and telling me that despite a large amount of evidence to contrary, that I am thinking about situations 'incorrectly.' The truth is; I am more accurate in my thinking than most.

The world really has become shit. Capitalism, greed, misogyny and racism have fucked up my life and it's statistically, factually, unlikely to be changing any time soon no matter what mental gymnastics I put myself through. I really am post-menopausal. I really won't have children. My parents and partner will never really understand me. They won't. I know them too well. It is too late to have friends. Yes, it is. They all have children and none of them have time for me. They are actually awkward around me. They live on planet family - which I'm sure has it's complications, I live on planet loneliness and isolation. They are incompatible mindsets.

The world really is hurtling towards a climate disaster, an overconsumption disaster and a billionaire-led fascist insanity disaster. I am just living until I die. It will largely be the same. There is literally no point. I am not a theoretical physicist and at this point I think that high level abstract science is the only thing left that will leave me with a sense of awe and mystery and it's probably too late to do anything meaningful in this field.

Being intelligent is the only thing I can base my self-esteem on. So therefore, I cannot stand CBT constantly gaslighting me, telling me I'm not able to 'manage my thoughts and emotions' which is a super nice way of saying I am stupid and defective. It then advises me that thinking I am stupid and defective is just further evidence of my stupidity and defectiveness that I need to 'work on'. Super helpful. Not.

I did a medical degree. I have evidence of my intellectual intelligence. I have worked in psychiatry with my patients consistently liking me and finding my interactions helpful for them. I therefore have evidence of my emotional intelligence.

[Croix]

Dear Outside Observing~

Welcome back, it has been a while but I remember talking with you.

I'm sure you knowt CBT is not for everyone. I endured an early form of this and it made matters worse -so I stopped. Simple talk therapy plus meds in a different environment have been the mainstay of my recovery - which has reached a a very livable stage.

I am sure of oyur intelligence and that all your observations are correct, stating with your long-term reactions to school bullying, the fact your appearance leads some others to feel you are a suitable target for racism and further bullying, your family situation -and in fact all you say about the world.

There is an exception, one is never too old for a friendship. I made two very deep ones in my late sixties and early seventies. So not impossible.

We did tlak about medications and therapy, and your desire to cease htese when some improvement showed. While I can sympathize abut side effects having taken very many regimens over the years I have been on a combination of old and also a new unconventional drugs for a number of years. They suit me, do the job and do not have adverse effects -I also have not developed a tolerance to them.

There is no chance I'd cease these or therapy, I'm in a good place and do not wish to risk it.

I'd like ot make one observation. All the things you say about the world , and the very many catastrophic defects in it are of course true, however your view reminds me of exactly how I viewed the world when depression was skewing my thoughts.

Now the world has not changed much, and neither has human nature, however I have and these factors no longer weigh me down as they once did.

Yur own experiences will I'm sure assist you wiht getting closer and treating your patients more effectively.

you have mentioned several times in the past how much oyu appreciated your husband (even if understanding and other matters were absent)  I do hope that is still the case

You are welcome to talk here anytime

Croix

[Brokenballerina]

I hear you I have always found CBT at psychologists really hard and frustrating. I think to reframe positively here’s my world view one “The world is a big place and I’m going to fight to feel happy in it even though it’s of course sh!t” and friends topic “ I don’t connect with sucky family people but I’m a smart cool person if I am ready to make a friend meeting new people when I feel better it will happen.” 

I think it’s like really hard not to get offended I know I still am about CBT but they don’t have to lead it you can challenge it to work for you. Like by being politely blunt and saying what you really think and see if there is anything in this framing idea that could be in your style and solve problems for you. I hope this reply is okay and yeah I think they need to validate your feelings more before trying to help you. It’s the depression and it’s valid what you think . When I’m unwell I can’t imagine some things and yeah I think it’s very hard work and we think what we think. I’m getting pissed off now too lol it’s like how can you change what you think but the POINT I hope cos I have to re start CBT soon ugh is we are aiming to change how we feel and thinking leads to feeling. Idk how anyone can change how they think it’s not going to happen and it might be impossible depending like on your needs like for eg. I take antidepressants and that helps me even get to appointments for this. You have to feel well to think well and when I go feeling mentally unwell as that topic is like omg but I think I will tell them the thing I’m despairing about my most sad life issue and ask them to reframe an example for me. To read when I still think the same tho but to ignite hope. That’s how they are suggesting thinking and it’s very invalidating because you don’t feel at at that way. It should be re named affirmations to remember instead of reframe your thoughts.

[therising]

Hi Outside observing

To say being an 'analyst/observer' and 'feeler' is a tough combination to live with and manage can be an understatement. When you can feel what you analyse and are driven to analyse what you feel, it can seem like a lonely experience when not everyone shares the same ability (to be able to do it as deeply or intensely).

I can relate to where you're coming from. I'd much rather better understand and accept my natural self rather than change it. For example, if I have the natural ability to analyse the hell out of everything, so as to get to some resemblance of heaven on earth, I'm naturally going to see and feel all that is hellish and depressing. How to make better sense of what is hellish and depressing is, I believe, the ultimate goal. To stop observing what is hellish does little to strengthen the ability to recognise it. Some of the greatest social reformists in history faced depression because they could see and feel what was hell on earth. Combine that with great compassion and such leaders could no longer tolerate others suffering through the same kind of hell. They became driven to lead them out of it.

Quantum physics is one of my loves (just the very basics). My overall passion involves coming to better understand myself on 3 different levels - mentally/psychologically, physically/biologically/chemically and naturally. QP kind of ties all 3 together in a way. How thoughts lead us to vibrate at subatomic levels will dictate our 'vibe' or overall energetic/natural expression and experience. Lead every cell in our body to vibrate at higher levels and perception can naturally change. It's not as though you stop seeing the sh** in life, at higher vibrational levels solutions to dealing with that sh** come to mind more easily. I suppose you'd call it 'tapping into the quantum field'. As a 52yo gal, I'm in no way going to seriously study to be a quantum physicist at this point in life. If you're an information junkie (often getting a high through what you learn), gravitating toward what gives you a natural high can be something that leads to a natural sense of wonder. Life becomes wonder full in some way. Are you someone who loves feasting on fascinating information that leads to greater self understanding? Are you naturally wonderful (full of wonder)?

[Outside observing]

Thanks for the reply and all your replies. Its just very difficult to see the forest for the trees. So many trees. I see a psychologist weekly and it doesn't seem to be working. I have dreams to open a business or go travelling or move towns but I always get shut down by everyone around me. No-one wants me to make any sudden moves. So I haven't made a move for decades. I am sick of people. I am sick of them telling me what to do and guilting me. I am discontent and searching for a way out, is all. Death seems like a way out. The ultimate avoidance, I suppose. I can't help but think I would miss out on something though. I think this part of the information addiction. I am addicted to looking for answers, looking for ways to survive. I get discouraged and think about escape. The ultimate escape is death, but it is final. So that propels me back to look for answers. But I am discouraged by the answers. And around and around it goes. The eternal return. The flat circle. The mortal coil.

[Outside observing]

Every morning I have trouble getting up and I'm thinking about death every day. I can't speak to anyone around me. I always have this veneer of calmness and sanity. I've worn this mask for so long. 

[Eagle Ray]

Hi Outside observing

I can relate to not finding CBT helpful. I’ve had much more help through somatic approaches that start from the body, rather than top-down approaches based on cognitive restructuring/reframing. I already had an understanding of many of my cognitive patterns, but just thinking about them wasn’t helpful. I had to sense what my body was feeling and how those feelings then informed my cognition. In some cases I’ve had to somatically process and resolve past feelings linked to past experiences in order to move forwards, but just reframing thinking on it’s own didn’t work.

 I too am one for endlessly searching for answers. I have a high level of perseverance which I’ve learned is a survival response based on my difficult beginning in life. It can be both a blessing and a curse at times, but it has kept my head above water as I’ve struggled at times with that part that wants to die too.

 I feel there is a balance between the endless search for answers and the drive towards death, and the fact that polarity is even there is a sign of the body seeking equilibrium. I’m starting to feel the presence of a more stable self somewhere in the middle of those two extremes.

 I just thought I’d share that in case it helps. I can also relate to the veneer of calmness and sanity you describe. Other people have described me as calm, reliable, dependable etc, but I know internally I have often not been those things for myself. It’s like I’ve taken care of others by how I am in the world, but not focused sufficiently on my own needs and feelings.

 I don’t know if that’s similar or not to your experience? Just thought I’d mention it in case it‘s relevant or helpful. I’m getting better at being calm for myself first, rather than for everyone else in the external world first, and it’s having positive effects. I do this via interoception - sensing and feeling what is happening in my own body. Once I’m taking better care of myself, my interactions with the external world are more positive, nourishing, healing and rewarding.

[therising]

I'm wondering whether your work in psychiatry (including your relatable nature) partly comes down to how you feel for others. Are you inclined to open a person's mind rather than change it? Are you more inclined to lead them to feel a difference in how they perceive themself? If you have such brilliant abilities, who else around you has them? I believe it to be an amazing revelation, to wake up to the fact you are the only person you know with certain abilities, the ones you're so desperate to find in someone else.

Would you say you are someone who has the ability to naturally raise people in a way? Are you able to raise them to a kind of 'birds eye view' or overall view of a situation? Are you able to raise their level of consciousness? Can you lead/raise others to see the forest above the trees? Would you say you're a visionary of sorts, where you can see for others yet struggle to see for your self? Can you feel for others (the nature of their situation and struggle) yet can't quite feel the true or overall nature of your own struggle, what truly lies behind it?

Have you ever wondered why no one you know has the same ability or set of abilities as you?

I recall being rather stunned and amused when waking up to that saying 'I am sick of...'. What suddenly came to mind was 'Throw a because in there'. So I did. I am sick because of...'. So much began to suddenly make sense. 'I am sick of no one leading me to feel a difference', for example, became 'I am sick because of no one leading me to feel a difference'. To rephrase, 'I am stuck in this overwhelming sense of dis-ease and no one appears to be leading me out of it'. To rephrase again, 'I am standing still, desperately wishing for the right guide to lead me out of where I now find myself'.

I'm so glad you can see your own brilliance, recognising your level of emotional intelligence. It is said that those who shine the light for others can often fail to see their own brilliance.

[Outside observing]

I am so tired and so burnt out and feel ashamed of the fact. I am hiding in my office for the last 45 minutes of the day. I think I have had my moments as a psychotherapist; have been able to affect a change of perception or mood or insight. These are rare moments in psychotherapy and when they happen they are rewarding, but I am struggling with my own feelings at this time. I feel constantly like a failure and a fraud which are classic signs of occupational burnout in my trade. And furthermore, its not just burnout. I have been unable to become a mother. I have not had an intimate relationship with my partner for about 2 decades now. I find it very difficult to maintain relationships. I feel like crying all the time. I hate waking up in the morning. Getting myself out of bed is getting increasingly hard. I constantly think of death or rather, it is not far from the surface. I have a method by which I'd do it which I'm pretty certain would be lethal, but if not would leave me brain damaged, so I won't do it because of that risk. I know it would hurt other people if I died and that's another reason I won't do it. But this is horrible to live like this. Horrible. Every aggressive impulse I've ever had has been turned inward since I was 7 years old, so I've beaten myself down into this depressive hole for almost my entire life. And now look at me. I am a horrible deformed person with little light or life in me. Everyone sees something different but I have perfected the mask of coping and of being a decent human being. Everyone sees the mask. No one sees me. If they were to see me they wouldn't like what they see. Sure, they'd go through the motions. Sure, they'd want me to stay alive - because no one wants that sort of guilt on their hands. I would write a note to relieves them of guilt - they still wouldn't be relieved by it. So if I died I would leave a trail of disaster and I don't want to do that. But that is literally the only thing keeping me here. Maybe I deserve to suffer. Maybe I deserve this purgatory.

[Eagle Ray]

Hi Outside observing

It seems like you are dealing with so much and with burnout as you identify, and I wonder if it is possible for you to take some time out to heal, to focus on what you need for yourself? It seems like you’ve worked so hard to maintain that mask of managing and coping well, but maybe it is your time to give yourself a much needed rest and to know it’s ok not to always maintain a veneer of coping no matter what.

 I relate to the anger turned inwards because that’s what I learned to do in my childhood circumstances. I am gradually learning to undo that now as I absolutely had to for my own health. I’ve missed out on having kids too which was something I’d really hoped for, so I do get the grief around that.

When you say you wonder if you deserve to suffer, that is that aggression turned inwards, but it absolutely isn’t true that you deserve suffering. It can be linked to feelings of shame, which can make us destructive against ourselves. But you are a special sentient being like any other deserving of love. Take care.