What can men do to help women feel safe?

[james1]

Hello everyone,

I just read an interesting article and have also recently watched a controversial show which got me thinking: what can men do to help women feel safe?

I would like to think that most if not all people here want a society where women do not feel like they are at risk. The situations that come to mind for me are walking through a dark area, being at a party and wanting to have a drink, leaving a drink to go to the loo, having a stranger talk to you, being offered a lift, among countless others.

I am asking because there have been many times where I have this massive umbrella (because I lose small ones) and I want to offer to share it with someone, but then I wonder if they'll think I'm creepy and be put off by that. Or if I'm driving my car and someone is running in torrential rain, and I want to give them a lift, but that is creepy. Or if I'm walking behind a lady in a dark alley, and so I stop walking and wait until I'm not making scary footsteps behind her.

Somehow by being a guy, I feel like my presence can be a threat so I try to avoid that as much as possible. So I just want to put it out to everyone: what can men do to help women feel safer? Is there even anything we can do (aside from the obvious don't do bad things)?

[Elizabeth CP]

I'd like to share an experience when a stranger helped me feel safe in the hope it will inspire the men reading this to keep doing what they can to help others rather than giving up because some women might not appreciate it

I was hiking with my husband when my husband started to collapse. I had to physically assist him back down the mountain to our car. A family approached & I told them to go ahead as we were slow. The husband sent his wife & children ahead & stayed back with us. He offered to help but even when I declined he stayed close walking ahead but turning back to watch us to ensure we were OK. When I started to stumble due to exhaustion he was there to steady me. By the time I got back to the car I was exhausted & can't remember if I thanked him but I often think back &wish I could tell him how grateful I was. Just knowing he was there watching out for me & available to get extra help if things got any worse helped me feel safer.

.

[Quercus]

Hi James and all 😊

What an interesting thread. I find it curious to see what a variety of feelings everyone has.

I'm not very good at social situations so my "go tos" have always been...

1. If unsure go with what you feel is polite.

2. If unsure... Ask.

Take the bloke in the hoodie following the girl. If I felt safe to do so I'd probably have gone and talked to him. I've done this before when I felt uncomfortable. Basically I've seen the person's face. They're less likely to do anything if you can ID them. Paranoid much? But it worked. When I worked in retail a bloke would always wait to be served by me. Bit by bit he creeped me out. Mentioned he knew the way I walked home. Knew the entrance I came into the shop. So one day I lied. I told him I had jammed the till somehow and would he mind using card? Then I commented on his name. I had his name. He never came back again. Paranoia much?

Anyhow. Asking works for me. If someone gets angry at my polite default I brush it off and play the country card "Oh I'm sorry I was trying to be polite and now I seem like a jerk. I'll get used to city manners someday!". It's true enough anyway.

However... Being a woman I think I have different experiences to your own. I am trusted because of my gender I suspect.

I've driven strangers before but must admit I'm overcautious because I have kids in the car to protect. If someone is hitchhiking forget it. But elderly people walking home with shopping yes and women with prams at bus stops when I have a car seat free. Noone really blinks at the offer for some reason.

Once I drove local boy who had a huge walk to his street and looked exhausted home. He was wary (good kid!) until the kids asked him who he was and if he liked Paw Patrol. If I was male he wouldn't have accepted the lift.

I've given strangers medication from my handbag which they've taken without thought. Just panadol and the like. But it always amazes me.

Sometimes I wonder why people trust me? I'm the sort a stranger will pour their woes to at the bus stop. Is that a gender thing or a me thing? Who knows.

Sorry. New meds tonight. I'm waffling. Good thread, thanks 😊

[Quercus]

Oh! I forgot the weirdest one!

Two little kids younger than mine (under 3 I think) were out on the road at the top of our street. No adult. Cars!!

I stopped the car and left hubby and the kids and took both of them to the front door. Rang bell. Yelled. No reply. The kids were hanging off me and said dad and step mum were out back. I told the kids to go get them. Still no parents!

No way in hell I was leaving. It was either go in the house illegally or call the cops. So I went in. Rather littlest dragged me in. In the lounge finally parents arrive. I thought I was going to cop it.

A cruisy hello (where they bloody high or something!?!). I freaked out and started telling them off haha. "I live at number ... And it's not ok for kids this little to be on the road alone blah blah blah". Meanwhile retreating to where hubby (who was royally peeved) could see me.

Not a word! I would have done my nut at a stranger letting themselves into my house. Nowdays men can't even play in the park with their own kids without getting wierd looks and they were fine with this? I concluded stoned. Who cares. At least they locked the fly wire!!

Hmmm. Think this is more waffle. Sorry.

[romantic_thi3f]

Hi!

Elizabeth CP - I loved reading your experience; that’s so lovely!

It does remind me a little of all of the lovely strangers (who I’ve never known the names too) that have helped me out when I’ve had falls and what not. A million opportunities to run away with my handbag and instead they steady me and walk me off the road. People can be so kind!

Quercus - you waffle on! That’s what these forums are for!

I’m totally going to steal your advice about looking them in the eyes and using their name - that makes total sense that it worked since it’s so confrontational! Hard to hide behind a hoodie if people are taking a mental photo of what you look like!

Also feels kind of ironic since people joke I’m from the country when I’m polite - apparently being polite is more of a country thing then a city thing? Where as for you vice versa? 😛 I also love how kind you are to random people! We need more of you!

[Quercus]

Hi James and RT and everyone reading.

RT thanks for your kind reply. I'm sorry I took a bit of a detour on James' thread and killed the conversation.

I had a question about your initial question James if that is ok? Why do you feel it is your responsibility as a man to seek out ways to make women feel safe? Isn't that exhausting?

Nat

[james1]

Hello Nat,

Mhmm I don't feel like it is my responsibility.

I hear all these terrible stories and statistics about gendered violence and hear things like, "I can't trust any man" and "all men are the same", so I wanted to ask. We seem to be in such a bad spot with how men and women relate, it was more a hopeful question to see if there was a way to improve it.

It is hard for me to be painted by the same brush as rapists and perpetrators of domestic violence and intimidation simply because I am male and am walking behind someone who was raped. But if I speak honestly, I do think that is the 'price' I pay for being male. Thankfully for me, it is far less than the 'price' most women pay for being female.

So I wanted to hear how women think and feel. I prefer action over inaction but perhaps in this case, there is no action that I can take for women in general to help the situation. It certainly sounds like - and I spoke to my own partner about it yesterday - there is nothing men can do except be the best friend, partner, father to the people in their lives, and listen to the stories and acknowledge their experiences.

James

[HamSolo01]

Hey James and Company.

I guess the question is: How do we avoid tarring good intentions of the many with the bad intentions of the few?

I have no idea personally. I know that there have been instances in the past where I've been chivalrous to a woman, like offering a seat or opening a door - but not because she was a woman. If she has her hands full and needs the door propped open or is of "an elderly disposition" then I offer the seat up for them. Perhaps my actions were perceived as chivalrous but my intention is not to be chivalrous? I can't quite recall instance where I have offered or done something because there was a woman present and I felt she needed my help because she was a woman. The best example that comes close would be getting on or off a bus or a train. Do I let the lady go out first? Maybe. Usually if she is old, because I know there is a generational gap there and it's social etiquette. If she was younger? Probably not.

I generally don't know how to be chivalrous without being condescending. Having said that, I try to be more chivalrous in conversations I have with girls, especially if there are many people in the conversation. If I cut across them, I will then apologise and say that I cut them off. Or I will stop as soon as i realise and then allow them to continue. Basically just being courteous.

In terms of whether or not a girl feels like I am being condescending or feels endangered by my presence? I simply can't know. So I can't make my choices based on the potential for someone to feel hurt by my presence. At the end of the day I will do what I do because I know I'm not an abuser. If my actions get miscontrued i will happily apologise but I can't simply change the way I get to a place (ie avoid an alleyway) or wait until a girl has walked down a street and then wait until she is gone. That's not how society works.

I think weak men are the real threat tbh. They are the ones that abuse women and use violence. They are the threat to women. It's got nothing to do with me.

Quick story: I was dropping my mum off at her work one day and the car behind me was tailgating me and he jumped out and started yelling all sorts of abuse towards her. She told me to drive off because of my safety, insisting that she put herself first. I was angry at her because she put herself in harm's way for me. Her justification for doing what she did was because the guy's appearance was respectable. Which is totally not the point. I think mum saw my point.

[Elizabeth CP]

I think the paragraph stating I will do what I do because I know I'm not an abuser. is correct. Trying to second guess what others think will just send you crazy & achieve nothing. I also agree that it is weak men who are the problem. Not necessarily physically weak!!! I thing real men have always been wanting to help & protect others. Even in caveman days the men protected the clan from dangerous animals & went out to catch animals to feed the clan. I remember my dad always looking out for others particularly anyone who was vulnerable. Even today years after he died people talk about the help & support he gave them. He was never over protective or smothering.

As James said men can be the best friend, partner, father to the people in their lives, and listen to the stories and acknowledge their experiences. When good men live by their values treating all with respect they will set an example to others & make everyone around them including women feel safer in my opinion. Don't let the few bad apples spoil it for everyone.

[Quercus]

Thanks James for your reply. I wasn't really sure in myself what I was asking until I saw this that you wrote...

there is nothing men can do except be the best friend, partner, father to the people in their lives, and listen to the stories and acknowledge their experiences

I think between yourself, Mitch and Elizabeth you've helped me understand what I was feeling.

I was confused.

You've done nothing wrong. And yet you want to know how to help. This threw me I think.

Because like you wrote.... There is nothing you can do but be the man you choose to be in the context of your own relationships. It is not your fault other men choose to do horrible things.

I think the best way men can help is by influencing other men. Like Elizabeth wrote about her father being a man with solid values. Others respect this. Young men need good male role models like this early in life.

Mitch your story about your Mum made me smile. Some men are violent jerks but women do learn ways to manage this alone. I think your Mum made the right choice. I would have done this too. Sometimes faced with another male 'protector' angry men get more aggressive. I think your Mum made the smart choice to protect you by allowing the jerk to abuse her and vent his anger somewhere. Not good I know but nothing most women wouldn't have experienced.

I've gone off on a tangent again I'm sorry. My point was meant to be that you James and most other men are not at fault. I like the idea of you just living the way that fits your values. It does help if you encourage the same values in the men that you impact along your way.

Thanks for tollerating me waffling.

[White_Rose]

Nat waffling? Surely not. 😊

Interesting thread James. I have never thought of men consciously looking out for women so this thread has been something of an eye opener. I have huge trust problems about men which I feel sure any man who speaks to me for any reason quite probably picks up on. And it is sad especially for social situations where I am unlikely to see this man again.

Having said this I will give you this story. I was in my car, stopped and was hit by the car behind me. No, not the accident at the beginning of the year, a different occasion. We both drove our cars off the road as we were causing a traffic jam. I got out of my car as did the male driver. I was shaking as much from unrelated events as the accident. We started to talk and I fell apart. This man put his arms around me and just held me.

In retrospect I suppose this could have been a problem but he simply held me until I recovered. That was a hugely brave act on his part because of potential problems. I was amazed I allowed this and felt safe. I have no idea why I allowed this man to hold me but it helped. So thank you to this man whose name I have never known. We went our separate ways. I am an older woman so maybe I thought this would protect me but from stories in the press it seems age is not a deterrent.

Why should a few men (relatively) dictate the way the majority behave? I like to think I am treated with respect because I am a person rather than a women. Sometimes I get annoyed because a man will make an elaborate gesture towards me with a comment he is doing this because I am a women. This to me is far more offensive and very patronising. Ham Solo has expressed my thoughts very well.

When I get off a train at some stations I have difficulty because the train step is much higher than the platform. This is a situation where being offered a steady arm would be appreciated as I have nearly been pushed over by people in a hurry to get off the train. So horses for courses.

Thanks for the opportunity James.

Mary