The enemy of my enemy is my friend... or is it?

[SubduedBlues]

In battle, there is an aged old saying: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." This means that there is military advantage to form alliance with your first enemies other enemies; so that together you can conquer your first enemy.

Recently there has been discussion about healthy eating and being healthy. But oftentimes I find that eating healthy and regular exercise does not result in being a healthy weight. Another great saying that I once heard is: "nothing is more unequal than the equal treatment of unequal's," which basically means that there is no one solution fixes every problem. So telling me to not eat the sugars I don't eat, or to cut back on the processed food I don't eat, doesn't really teach me anything. It's like you are telling me to make my water wet.

Hmm... maybe best to look at "Why do I have Fat?"

A current reality tree (CRT) is a way of analyzing many systems or organizational problems at once. By identifying root causes common to most or all of the problems, a CRT can greatly aid focused improvement of the system. So if the system is my body, I should be able to use a CRT to find the cause of Fat.

I eat healthy and I exercise regularly, both of which do not lend themselves to having Fat, so it must be something else. What about volumes? Can too much healthy foods make you fat; possibly. Eating too much healthy food makes you fat. So, according to the CRT, my problem is eating too much. So I tried to eat single servings instead of double-triple serves, but Fat stays with me. And I need to get rid of this enemy called Fat. So, if my enemy is Fat. And, Fat's enemy is skinny. Then Skinny is my friend. So how do I get Skinny? If I ate how Skinny eats, would I not just be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire?

So many questions, no real answers

[Croix]

Dear SB~

Thank you for this thought provoking thread. Perplexing.

If i might relate something from my past. I had to go on a 3-month course, which I wanted very much to do. In order to go on that course I had to conform to a weight/height chart set out by the Commonwealth Government.

I enlisted the aid of a hospital dietician and with her help and exercise lost exactly 1/3 of my bodyweight. I got on the course. Apart from needing a new wardrobe I felt unwell the whole time I maintained that new weight.

A couple of years later I'd returned to my original weight and felt fine (and bought another wardrobe - sigh).

Since then I've had a sneaking feeling that 'ideal' bodyweights are not as cut and dried as one might presume.

Has the definition of a 'healthy weight' become more reasonable nowadays? It it possible you are more healthy than you realize?

Croix

[blondguy]

Hey SB

I understand where you are coming from about 'eating healthy and being healthy'. I hear it many many times.

I find it difficult to comprehend especially as it had no bearing on my recovery from anxiety years ago as I was super fit and all my lifestyle choices were spot on without obsession.

I think that 'eating well' and 'exercising' is good general advice but doesnt apply to many people with a mental illness. Just have a look at the Beyond Blue Ambassadors..there are many physically healthy people that suffer from an MI.

I was a mens size 31" in 1983 and am still the same size now in Levi's in 2017

I did read all of your post and I agree that portion control is critical to maintaining weight. Its easily said though.

Even though I understand and agree with the advice provided about 'healthy eating and exercising' is somewhat vague, it is only a small part of the holistic approach to healing a chemical/environmental/genetic illness

Croix nailed it above when he mentioned that an 'ideal' BMI is not always gospel.

Thanks SB 🙂

my kindest

Paul

[gld]

Hi,

When they say, "eat healthy" i do not feel it is about becoming thin at all. My understanding is that you have balance over the five food groups doing your best to reduce the intake of the processed foods that are not packed with the beneficial nutrition that your body craves. Has anyone out there noticed when you are depressed you sway towards the comfort foods and eat and eat but still don't feel you have any drive. I feel the sugar value makes me feel good when eating it but brings me down as quick as it picks me up. On saying that that does not mean you are not allowed to treat yourself now and again, just in moderation. Eating a balanaced diet for me sustains a constant level of energy to keep me going throughout the day.

Have found when, "exercise" is spoken about people jump straight into the assumption that it is vital we go join a gym, run 5ks before breakfast or do 100 push ups. My exercise has been very beneficial for myself it is as simple as going for a walk, playing with my dogs or going for a swim. Not saying the previous is bad for you though. The exercise for me gets me up and out of the house takes my mind off things while i am doing it as well as giving me a social outlet. For example when i am going for a walk in my neighbourhood i might bump into someone that lives locally and have a chat.

So my understanding of eating healthy and exercise has helped me move towards a better path to recovery and i hold onto hope i am able to continue to follow this path to make things easier for me.

Gen

[Doolhof]

Hi All,

Getting to the root cause of an eating problem is not always easy. There can be so many contributing factors. Trying to find answers and options to improve your health is always beneficial.

Unfortunately depression for me does cause me to go for the comfort food choices. Unpleasant days also seem to restrict my desire to get up and exercise. It can be a battle.

Some people who eat extremely healthy are still considered large, some who eat "garbage" all day long can be skinny as a stick.

I have a girlfriend who is miserable around food. She has decided to eat "healthy" and has to avoid certain foods due to allergies. Dining with her is not always a pleasure when she goes on about what she can or can't eat. Yes she is thin and very fit...but happy...No!

She reminds me how much she exercises to stay the size she is. Why make yourself so miserable to maintain a desired body shape that may not suit your system?

Being physically fit and eating healthy is important yes. Carrying it to the level where you and others suffer is going a bit too far as far as I am concerned.

That is my 2 cents worth anyway! Ha. Ha. Cheers from Mrs. D.

[gld]

“Do something every day that is loving toward your body and gives you the opportunity to enjoy the sensations of your body.” ~Golda Poretsky

“Nourishing yourself in a way that helps you blossom in the direction you want to go is attainable, and you are worth the effort.” ~Deborah Day

[SubduedBlues]

My son suggested that I do Tai-Chi and Yoga to help burn off the fat. Where I see that most of the people who do these forms of exercise are thin to medium built, I really can't fathom how moving dead slow helps burn off weight. I suspect that they were like that when they started.

Anyone remember the days of Richard Simmons on TV, or is that just an American thing? Anyhow he used to have work out programs with a lot of big people. I never once saw an episode where any of the people from his sessions were getting fit, everyone was always big. I wonder there might have been a psychological association between that type of exercise and staying big because of it; perhaps that's is why I don't do aerobics... because it was never shown to do anything but make you sweaty.

I guess where I am going with this is, how much does visual association and subliminal messages affect our attitudes towards which exercise we do, if any? For example, if you recall Norm and the Live Be In It campaign, the message received was: walking is for overweight couch-potatoes.

[gld]

Hi SubduedBlues,

Richard Simmons, headband, short shorts and longs socks...Ha Ha Ha very seventies to eighties.

Yoga might be slow in some classes but you are able to loss weight. If you like a fast past thing you could give a cardio circuit ago, rowing machine, bike, stepping machine and walking/running machine at a gym.

Gave zoomba a go and dropped quite a few kgs but they would go one way and would go the other way. Had my sister in stitches when we went together. Swimming also helped me and it was not so hard on the joints.

Gen.

[Doolhof]

Hi gld,

Thanks for sharing those words of wisdom, I will try to be kinder and more nurturing towards myself. We have some sunshine here today so I will make the most of that with a walk and some time in the garden.

Cheers from Mrs. D.

[Doolhof]

Hi SB and All,

I remember Richard Symmons, Jane Fonda and didn't Olivia Newton John have a song and film clip about getting physical.

It is a bit off putting where everyone on the clips is either drop dead gorgeous or large and not as beautiful. Maybe exercise and body image still has a long way to go so everyone feels comfortable to have a go.

Cheers from Mrs. D.