Men isolated

[white knight]

I'd like to hear from men. I want to know your inner feelings about anything that you feel isolated about. I'd like to know if you feel that the revolution towards equality of the sexes has gone too far to a point whereby you are feeling inferior to women or you feel women are being treated better in any way - just because you are a man.

Emotionally, are you feeling that you get enough support from females? Do you feel women are afraid to hug you to comfort you for any reason? like you'll take advantage of them? Do you have many female friends? Do you feel that women socialize better? What do YOU want socially?

Feel free, talk, let go of your restraints, take advantage of the anonymous environment to let yourself be heard. We can do this and be in error, that our presumptions are ill directed and unfair. It could be our own inapproachability for example that can sway women away from us when we need them most.

Are we misread? I know when I'm in conflict with someone I come across as a little aggressive or arguing in a normal male manner and that can portray someone that is not in need of support but is someone to avoid. NOTHING could be further from the truth.

So that's one gripe. I feel women don't pursue the friendship care far enough. Such limited care results in my feelings of isolation. I think I'm a "giver" apart from my supportive wife no woman supports me anywhere near the level I give to them. Is this an illusion? What do you think?

Two people. One a woman that enters a group, say a hobby group. She sits down and isn't feeling emotionally well. She is asked a question like "how is your day"? She burst into tears. The whole group of 10 ladies stand and hold her hand, hand on her shoulder, comforting and reassurance. She is not alone. They even ring her later and talk at length. The other person a middle aged male enters a motoring clubroom in his local town, his male friends restore cars and share drinks. He sits and realizes he was in no shape to attend. A guy asks him how his restoration is going. He is upset thinking about his car as due to his depression he hasn't been to his shed for weeks. He suddenly starts crying. The men, all of whom start to feel uncomfortable, mention a few things like" you'll get there don't worry". He is worried because he knows that half of the men there actually think he is a softy by crying, to stand clear of him because he has problems, to avoid him as it might upset their own happy day in the sun....

Tony WK

[Elizabeth CP]

My son was recently admitted into a psych ward after his depression & anxiety escalated while trying to pack on his own prior to moving house. Yesterday my son was given overnight leave to help move their belongings by truck to a storage facility near where they plan to live. He returns to hospital today. He told me he's feeling better. What is the difference? Sorting & packing mean deciding what to keep, throw, give away & how to pack it. My son felt overwhelmed & useless & stress levels & negative feelings escalates. Extreme stress over recent months had left him unwell & vulnerable so this tipped him over the edge. In contrast he felt in control & competent moving & had help. It required little thought but plenty of strength. In this case he feels useful & is too busy for negative thoughts. He knows he will be returning to hospital so he can have a break afterwards.

Talking to my daughter we noted how my sons when living at home were good at the jobs that could be done quickly & without fiddling around & thinking or planning eg cut the tree down or shift the huge boulder but ask them to do anything which required fiddling about eg moving things into different places to see what looked the best they had zero patience. When one son got married initially jobs were shared evenly as they both worked but it wasn't long before his wife decided that didn't work. For example my son would tidy up but then my DIL couldn't find anything as everything was shoved into cupboards in the spare room. She did the tidying. I suspect she keeps control of the wardrobe. In return this son does all the heavy work in the garden, the home maintenance & renovations & regularly takes the kids out to give her a break. Their marriage works because both accept each others strengths & weaknesses & use their differences to their mutual advantage.

If we want the other people in our lives to help us we need to accept that they may do things differently to us & we need to find a way to manage that to suit both. Treat each other with respect & also allow the people we love to do things which they enjoy or help them feel competent. These little things such as domestic chores may seem minor but as my son's example shows if a person is already vulnerable it can make a huge difference to their mental health.

[Elizabeth CP]

I really liked what Quercus said We split chores based on skill and interest and share some. As long as both partners are comfortable with the split it is perfect. Of course there is a place for each person learning the other tasks in case things change. eg my husband wanted me to let him cook sometimes so if I was sick or out he wasn't stuck. I now have to do the chores he used to do because he is blind & can't do them.

I find the benefit of a relationship generally is that you share the load. The important word is share not do the same or one do more than the other.

The statistics to me speak more about a need to encourage communication and self acceptance to men and especially to boys. That is a really good point.

I don't see why we HAVE to be good at everything Agree totally.

[white knight]

Hi all,

Quercus and Elizabeth CP, you have both helped out, thankyou.

As mentioned in a post or two ago, I've put on weight and to do the required thing, that of trying on shirts to see if they fit or not is the task. I hate it. Also, I have garage shirts and good shirts. The garage shirts are dwindling by number as I use them for rags as the welding makes holes in them. So we purchased 4 new shirts. My automatic ritual is to use the oldest good shirts for garage shirts. But therein lies the conflict with my wife because "that's a good shirt". She wasn't aware of my garage shirts dwindling by number to be fair.

We decided to purchase cheap T-shirts on ebay to increase the garage shirt numbers. All solved.

My "mental block" that is a concern is the whole topic of sorting out the wardrobe. Birdy hit the nail on the head with her chairobe...clothes over or on a chair rather than hung up for the next day. To be specific the drama as to why this seemingly simple task is hard for some than it is for others. Birdy confirmed it isn't a man thing, it can be with women also. That helped me because if there is one thing I want to make sure of in my mind and on this thread is not to see as if I'm blaming women for mens issues.

I think the observation of men not having the patience to do some tasks is spot on. Fall a tree, no problem, sort out old family photos into relevant albums- nope!.

This "difference" is the whole point today- that of acceptance of women to see these differences (if they don't), this lack of patience for the tasks that include details and miniscule actions. Here I was thinking its likely a mental issue to do with my illness and I was off the track there.

However such tasks that I feel deficient in doing as its a "man" thing I have taken on board as yet another thing I am hopeless at doing. Confidence takes a dive and its another addition to the sadness bucket, they add up and regularly produce a crisis. A real cycle and a tough one to manage..

Tony WK

[Quiettall]

I want to add a different perspective or context. I grew up in a large family of 11 kids. I am the third last. We are all now in our early to mid retirement years. From the outset I was always the quiet one, kept my head down, avoided dramas and got out of home the same day I finished my final HSC exam in 1973. I never made a big deal of anything I did, although the other 6 brothers always boasted about their cars, their houses, their careers, their families etc etc.

Now I find my self the one they come to when one has major mental health dramas, the other has major palliative care treated cancer, a third older member has OCD but wont admit she has a problem, the others use me as "the helper", "the wise one" etc etc

After reading through these posts tonight, I was reflecting on the fact that I've spend the last 4-5 months doing nothing else but supporting and assisting other family members, not one has come to me and said "Are you OK?". They treat me as the quiet achiever, the all-capable one that never needs help. The truth is my family and even my wife are the last people I would seek help from. I have found that I am not Robinson Crusoe there....many other males my age are facing similar challenges.

I would be interested in some reactions and insights. I find my involvement in Blue Voices and today's Ambassador/Speaker training gives me a great outlet and a way I can learn how to cope with issues myself and learn different insights and hints that I can use in my work with others

[white knight]

Hi Quietall

Thanks for your valuable post.

Re: "I was reflecting on the fact that I've spend the last 4-5 months doing nothing else but supporting and assisting other family members, not one has come to me and said "Are you OK?".

I think this is one of the reasons for this thread. It's hurtful that no one asks how you are.

I have done an experiment. As I had a down period last week and it has ligered, my sadness is remaining with me and I'm just coping, I thought I'd cry out on Facebook.

I have only 57 friends. I culled many a few years ago mainly from a motoring group that weren't real friends. What makes a real friend?

Anyway a couple of days ago I put up on my FB a statement that went along the lines of "I'm not mentally well, I'm struggling, I have a link here I ask you all to read." Then I put the link to this thread.

Well guess what- not one comment. So I repeated the post yesterday. Still no comment.

My friends are people that I have attended their parents funerals, been there in their home when they have traumatic issues, rang them when they become grandparents, lost their job etc.

No here is the clincher. I don't in fact, normally expect anything. I don't portray anyone that needs or wants assistance/support. I don't normally believe in the - "well I've done this for you so you should do this for me" syndrome/belief. Not normally is right, but on this occasion I thought I'd give it a go.- No reply.

One close female friend had told another friend I wasn't well. That got back to me, still no direct contact/care.

Ok, so my wife and I are to attend a friends get together this weekend. I feel that the hugs will be hollow. It deeply saddens me.

Am I unreasonable to want support? Am I expecting too much? If so what is friendship for men? Are we all to be the non needy type, the strong guys, the ones that reach out only to be ignored when real need is there.

I'm still recovering from a big trigger that, for the first time, occurred from this forum.

I'm nearly there, nearly recovered. I don't know what I'd do if helping others all stopped overnight for some reason.

But that test on Facebook is a revelation. Friendships have different levels. Few are at the top. That means the rest are users. My mission now is to accept that so I can segregate those that aren't real friends from the ones that are. That action has a positive side.

It means I'll look after myself better. Quietall, what do you think. Anyone- your thoughts.

Tony WK

[monkey_magic]

That's disheartening Tony, my heart sunk reading that. Perhaps no one knew what to say so it's more of a reflection of their lack of experience in the mental health area. If u said u had broken your leg or were sick, I'm sure you would have more support. Still, it would sting. I sincerely hope it doesn't affect you too much, be great to dust yourself off. Perhaps a lot of them weren't on Facebook at the time? I don't think it was a reflection of you from what I've read coming from you on this forum.

And no, woman and men don't have to be strong all the time and we all need support on occasion.

Can't wait for your struggle street to be over and for you to be on top again mentally. It takes courage to reach out and courage to be knocked back and to keep on going...I think you've got that. Rejection makes you stronger.

You could ask them if they saw your post and ask why they didn't respond. You'll have answers then and can decide the true friends from the users or acquaintances.

[white knight]

Hi MM, thankyou for replying.

You made some relevant points.

What this has done lately is make me introduce a new strategy. We are moving from our home once it sells and we move into our new home I'm taking a new perspective. I wont be reaching out to some friends as I've done. I have to move them to the acquaintance room!. I must change my views. Or I get hurt.

Of course it is in ones nature to help others. That side of me I'm proud of and will never change. Without that side I'd have little purpose. Though to take a leaf out of my own book, I'll take up model airplanes again. So a hobby will help.

Tony WK

[blondguy]

Hi TonyWK

I also had the same 'let down' on Facebook a few years ago and found out that people 'measured their friends numerically and any support was not a priority where my own mental health was concerned'.

I found this very disappointing in 2009.

Thankyou Tony for shining some reality on the quality of 'friendship' where FB is concerned

Paul

[Elizabeth CP]

Hi Tony I'm sorry you are feeling down & I hope you improve soon. I don't use face book but yor experience confirms that I've made the right choice.

I think one of the issues is stigma for MI. I think many people are uncomfortable with it & unsure what to do or say. My limited experience suggests this is worse for men. When my son was first admitted into a psych ward my other sons would not visit him but my daughters did. My other sons were happy to spend time with their brother when he was out of hospital & to help him in other ways but they couldn't cope with him being MI. Certainly not ideal when you need support. Incidentally my kids have no idea that I suffer from depression & PTSD. They help me because they know I have to care for my husband.

[white knight]

Hi all.

Thankyou to the latest contributors

I think its time I mentioned my brother. He suicided in 1979. He was 26yo, a teacher and a very lonely man. He was 4 years my senior.

I had no idea he was depressed. There were no signs. No warning. How can we know ?

Tony WK