Men isolated

[white knight]

I'd like to hear from men. I want to know your inner feelings about anything that you feel isolated about. I'd like to know if you feel that the revolution towards equality of the sexes has gone too far to a point whereby you are feeling inferior to women or you feel women are being treated better in any way - just because you are a man.

Emotionally, are you feeling that you get enough support from females? Do you feel women are afraid to hug you to comfort you for any reason? like you'll take advantage of them? Do you have many female friends? Do you feel that women socialize better? What do YOU want socially?

Feel free, talk, let go of your restraints, take advantage of the anonymous environment to let yourself be heard. We can do this and be in error, that our presumptions are ill directed and unfair. It could be our own inapproachability for example that can sway women away from us when we need them most.

Are we misread? I know when I'm in conflict with someone I come across as a little aggressive or arguing in a normal male manner and that can portray someone that is not in need of support but is someone to avoid. NOTHING could be further from the truth.

So that's one gripe. I feel women don't pursue the friendship care far enough. Such limited care results in my feelings of isolation. I think I'm a "giver" apart from my supportive wife no woman supports me anywhere near the level I give to them. Is this an illusion? What do you think?

Two people. One a woman that enters a group, say a hobby group. She sits down and isn't feeling emotionally well. She is asked a question like "how is your day"? She burst into tears. The whole group of 10 ladies stand and hold her hand, hand on her shoulder, comforting and reassurance. She is not alone. They even ring her later and talk at length. The other person a middle aged male enters a motoring clubroom in his local town, his male friends restore cars and share drinks. He sits and realizes he was in no shape to attend. A guy asks him how his restoration is going. He is upset thinking about his car as due to his depression he hasn't been to his shed for weeks. He suddenly starts crying. The men, all of whom start to feel uncomfortable, mention a few things like" you'll get there don't worry". He is worried because he knows that half of the men there actually think he is a softy by crying, to stand clear of him because he has problems, to avoid him as it might upset their own happy day in the sun....

Tony WK

[geoff]

Hi Tony, you have made some excellent points here, just as others have also done, so well done.

Back in the 60's you would never hear of a painter being a female, it was unheard of, just as you would never expect a male to be the house carer by staying at home and looking after the kids, what sort of reaction would you get from your mates, I'd hate to think.

Precisely, "what would she know" would be the typical comment and I feel that this still remains in many trades.

Why are chefs mainly male while at home a high percentage of cooks are female, especially in the 60's.

I never saw my Dad vacuum the house, doctors don't do this, nor could he even cook an egg, it wasn't his role.

Every day at about 3 pm a fellow doctor in my Dad's practice always left the clinic, so he was followed and got caught drinking vodka, that was his last day working.

Tony how much I agree with you about the suicides, as well as 'Men's reactions to criticism can be quite different to women' this was definitely the case in my marriage, my wife would go to the bedroom and not talk to me until I said I was sorry, but what about, was always my query.

[Noideaatall]

Yes. It has surpassed the point where everybody can just get along, now we are aleinated for what sex, colour, race, orientation, beleif, even what drink we prefer.

Im from a backgound where you all help one another out through the good times and bad, myself now im struggling to find one person to help when i need it the most, having a recent experience with this after asking a 'friend' i thought i was able to trust im pretty hurt by their reaction to such a simple request.

theirs so much stigma around men helping men that needs to be broken down, im lying here now, not in a healthy mind, but dont have anyone to talk to that can help, mention you want to talk and the room clears faster than a fat kid to a buffet.

We as men are also quite prone to shrugging off our dilemmas and bottling them up like 'she'll be right' 'you'll be ok' 'dont worry about it' and the like ignoring the bigger issue also discouraging us from talking'

I think ive rambled on enough.

[white knight]

Hi Noideaatall, welcome to this thread.

you hit the nail on the head with the reason for this thread. The common way men disappear when you need them. I just cant imagine me getting a freidn or two together and saying "I'm not well guys, I need you at the moment, I'm heavily depressed......" It's just too problematic with my pride and dignity. This is the male issue, why we are also our own worse enemy. So it isn't always women as I've pointed out.

But its amazing how women can rally their friends together and support each other. I'm in awe!!

Geoff you said "I never saw my Dad vacuum the house, doctors don't do this, nor could he even cook an egg, it wasn't his role." Same here. In fact as a boy my mother had to go interstate to nurse her parents. Dad cooked. I recall him baking a chicken. He kept rolling the chicken every 10 minutes in the oven. I asked him why he turned it so often. "well son, how is the sides of the chook going to cook if it isn't on the bottom?" I said, isn't the heat from the oven going to cook it"? "No son, that heat is just to keep it warm". haha He had no idea.

Now we are all multiskilled. And our roles in a marriage is up to the couple themselves but it is more shared than ever. Our generation (those in their 60's) aren't used to comforting other men. And many women wont comfort men, yet our suicide rates are through the roof.

Total suicides 2016 nationally 3306

Total suicides 2017 nationally 3309

(some numbers are calculated March to March or calendar year so it varies)

Road toll nationally 2012-2017 average 1290 per year. This road toll has reduced enormously. I can recall it being 1034 for Victoria only in one year in the 1970's.

For every female suicide there are 3 male suicides. So average we have 800 female suicides a year and 2500 males. What is also surprising is that the national road has lowered and female suicides are getting close to that figure.

The figures blow my mind. But they need to be mentioned to highlight the problem.

Tony WK

[blondguy]

Hi TonyWK

This is not a offensive topic towards females. Just the ad agencies being irresponsible and targeting the female demographic to increase their clients revenue

I mentioned on an earlier post about the vilification of men in advertising and this one doesnt help where mens mental health is concerned

The Advertising Standards Bureau upheld a complaint re this advertisement ' the ad discriminated against husbands on the basis of gender and therefore the complaint was upheld, setting a precedent for future advertisers'

I found this pest control commercial offensive and a serious put down for men

Here is a summary of the advertisement (which has been taken off the air)

The ad featured a customer calling (The Company) and asking several questions regarding the type of pests they get rid of, including asking “what about my husband?” A voiceover states that Allpest don’t ‘do husbands’ but they do get rid of almost any other type of pest.

I hope that no one finds this ad content amusing

Its ad agency trash that is pandering to females to generate . It doesnt help with Mens lack of Self Worth not to mention the woeful male suicide levels

Thankyou Tony for your great thread

Paul

[white knight]

Thanks Paul

Totally agree. I mentioned also an ad about dishes and chocolate, the reverse if your example

"Thank you very much for doing the dishes, thankyou very much for doing the dishes..."

So it seems clear that the advertising mobs have gone too far against males as females are no longer a target.

Neither should be a target!.

The degradation of men as men is also a concern for me. The fake boob so men can feed their baby is so wrong...we are men, not fake women. Some might say a baby bottle is the same, it isnt. Imagine a woman wearing fake male genitals so the baby will identify a woman as a fake man...no need for this at all.

So men are now scrambling to maintain their sexuality or save it. These are the issues that are helping to scatter own self worth. The effect, from my views is we are losing confidence, losing our role, taking criticism, and our importance.

I remember a segment once in a magazine called "mere male". It seemed harmless enough, jokes about the things men do that made their wives, mothers laugh. But some were putting their partners down like an inferior species. Sad

If we went through a period whereby men got a taste of what women have endured for...well since forever, then it might have served a purpose. Its now continuing beyond that.

Great contribution Paul

Tony WK

[blondguy]

Thanks TonyWK for reading my post and your kind reply

My apologies for the typo;

'Its ad agency trash that is pandering to females to generate *revenue' (for their client) oops

My source for this commercial is....

http://www.adnews.com.au/news/vilifying-husbands-in-advertising-no-longer-ok

Paul

[white knight]

Thanks for that Paul

MENTAL BLOCKS WITH MEN

I came across this today. I'm concerned some women are critical of men of the things that don't come natural.

Now, having an early military background you'd think that some chores would become easy for me, like washing clothes and the like. Well the training and RAAF environment had helped to sway my eagerness for chores. A few elude me though.

Wardrobes! Can the men reading this tell me when was the last time you cleaned out your wardrobe? How often do you re-arrange items ? How often do you turf those garments that are too small or are not fit to wear?

I might be suffering a mental block due to my illnesses or I could be prioritizing wardrobe discipline as a male thing eg just don't go there!. The topic has been an ongoing clash between my wife and I over 9 years now. She has, to her credit, labelled baskets and shelves with "old shirts garage pants," and the like but I haven't been able or disciplined enough to read them...why? If I knew why I wouldn't be writing about it here.

So the issue is putting on weight and having too small shirts in my wardrobe. When I want to wear one and its too snug, I hang it up again hoping soon I'll lose the weight and wear them....nope, it aint gunna happen!.

So we got to an agreement that I'd make up larger signs than she made and sticky tape them to their respective baskets. I'm hoping my doing it this time will sink in to my thinking and all will be well. The snug shirts have gone into a container at the bottom.

My question about wardrobe discipline might seem minor in the scheme of this thread and our discussions but it is major. The fact is that these "road blocks" in life, such apparently easy tasks are not so easy. I'm acting like a little boy saying to myself "I don't want to do it"!! Why?

These blocks are so effective in downing my mood that, yes a trigger, it sets me off for the day in a depressed mood. Is it a bipolar reaction? A normal marital reaction?....what do I want/expect?

Well I asked my wife to stop talking in a critical manner about my lack of drive to make my wardrobe orderly and to ask why it is so.

Are there other areas of where men are not eager to participate in the household duties.? EG housework, having to always be the driver of a car and not allow his wife to drive, and so on.

What I have realized today is that these issues that can cause angst among men could be reasons that they feel misunderstood. Is their nature fully accepted?

Tony WK

[Birdy77]

Hi Tony,

Your wardrobe sounds more organised than mine. I have a huge block in this area. I actually use my Chairdrobe more often than my wardrobe. The clean laundry I pile there and scrounge through when looking for something to put on. Not terribly dignifying.

My partner asked me yesterday if maybe I should put away, say, 5 items. I was that little girl: "But I don't wanna!" I've always been this way with clothes, despite the fact I keep a pretty tidy home generally.

Seeing the chairdrobe every morning depresses me. I always feel better when I've put my clothes away (like a good girl), but there's definitely a block there for me too.

So I totally understand.

🌻birdy

[white knight]

Oh wow, thanks Birdy.

Perhaps we should educate those around us on how to use the chairobe ...then we can class ourselves as "normal". 🙂

[Quercus]

Hello everyone,

Hmmm maybe I'm not getting the point but I don't see why we HAVE to be good at everything?

Like Tony and Birdy not having an interest in clothes organisation I don't see as a male or a female "thing" just as a chore you don't prioritise.

I find the benefit of a relationship generally is that you share the load. For example I am just not mechanically minded. I can top up oil in the car and could probably work out how to change a tyre (thank goodness for youtube). But in our house... Those are not my responsibility.

There may be people out there frowning at me relying on my husband but he also relies on me. We split chores based on skill and interest and share some. Sometimes he cooks. Sometimes I mow the lawn. But usually it isn't the norm.

What's wrong with that?

Ok I don't like the strong male, maternal female stereotypes but I also don't like the push to be equal equal equal.

The statistics to me speak more about a need to encourage communication and self acceptance to men and especially to boys. It doesn't mean we have to encourage them to be different. Same goes with girls. I am sick of being told not to dress my daughter in pink because it will encourage her to be a "girly girl" wtf does that even mean!

Do I let my kids choose their clothes. My daughter likes pink. She also loves monster trucks. Maybe one day she'll be a mechanic who wears pink. My son likes foxes and craft above all. Maybe he'll be an artist? I couldn't care less as long and my kids are happy (and alive).