Men isolated

[white knight]

I'd like to hear from men. I want to know your inner feelings about anything that you feel isolated about. I'd like to know if you feel that the revolution towards equality of the sexes has gone too far to a point whereby you are feeling inferior to women or you feel women are being treated better in any way - just because you are a man.

Emotionally, are you feeling that you get enough support from females? Do you feel women are afraid to hug you to comfort you for any reason? like you'll take advantage of them? Do you have many female friends? Do you feel that women socialize better? What do YOU want socially?

Feel free, talk, let go of your restraints, take advantage of the anonymous environment to let yourself be heard. We can do this and be in error, that our presumptions are ill directed and unfair. It could be our own inapproachability for example that can sway women away from us when we need them most.

Are we misread? I know when I'm in conflict with someone I come across as a little aggressive or arguing in a normal male manner and that can portray someone that is not in need of support but is someone to avoid. NOTHING could be further from the truth.

So that's one gripe. I feel women don't pursue the friendship care far enough. Such limited care results in my feelings of isolation. I think I'm a "giver" apart from my supportive wife no woman supports me anywhere near the level I give to them. Is this an illusion? What do you think?

Two people. One a woman that enters a group, say a hobby group. She sits down and isn't feeling emotionally well. She is asked a question like "how is your day"? She burst into tears. The whole group of 10 ladies stand and hold her hand, hand on her shoulder, comforting and reassurance. She is not alone. They even ring her later and talk at length. The other person a middle aged male enters a motoring clubroom in his local town, his male friends restore cars and share drinks. He sits and realizes he was in no shape to attend. A guy asks him how his restoration is going. He is upset thinking about his car as due to his depression he hasn't been to his shed for weeks. He suddenly starts crying. The men, all of whom start to feel uncomfortable, mention a few things like" you'll get there don't worry". He is worried because he knows that half of the men there actually think he is a softy by crying, to stand clear of him because he has problems, to avoid him as it might upset their own happy day in the sun....

Tony WK

[james1]

Hello Tony,

That is a funny rule they brought in - one foot on the floor.

And I agree with you. I also find I enjoy conversations with women more than men. It is more grounded even when talking about mundane things, because you get a sense of the person and the emotions behind actions and thoughts. (Generalising here), I don't usually get that with men.

Thank you for your stories. They are nice to hear how you have gotten around this issue, even though it is sad that the issue exists at all.

James

[white knight]

Hi Pepper , great to see you here.

yes, I think the days of "women do this chore and men do that" are dwindling. Strength that men have isn't the womans fault. Feminism women have isn't the mans fault. There is no "fault". So, the best attitude is to utilize both individual natural abilities to form a team.

Elizabeth, boy are you a warrior. All those tasks taken on. I assume your hubby feels somewhat deflated that he cannot assist you? It must be a blow to him and I'm sympathetic. Re: Ben and Jack. That's great they can talk. The defining difference in that situation is that there would nearly always be a natural hesitation among most men to talk. Such hesitation can go away after years of close mateship.

James. It is sad that we have realized these differences that are ground in.

Tony WK

[white knight]

CATCHING UP TO MODERN STANDARDS

Imagine this:

If human development was taken over A one year period. The last two minutes of the year on 31st December would be represented as the last 50 years of the human race.
So right up till then we humans from caveman till the beginning of the sexual revolution has been a huge amount of time. This period of time saw men rule women. There is no doubting that.

So I’m 62yo, my father was born in 1927. His era and before him for hundreds of thousands of years was men ruling/dominating women likely due to sheer braun and convention. It was how it was.

So baby boomers are the sons of that mindset. We adopted naturally with that environment. My dad ruled the household and was the ultimate decision maker. It seemed my mothers primary role was to convince him/.sway him to make the decisions she wanted. Then wham!!! We suddenly had to turn that on its head- the age of equality had arrived. Germaine Greer, boy, what planet did she come from we all thought….equality? men and women? Not possible!!! it was odd.
Of course it has been the best thing that has developed but some of us men could not adapt. It is indeed a sad thing to observe when an elderly man dominates his wife in a doctors surgery and she cowers into submission. That’s the way it was and for them change isn’t possible.

I see a comparison with sexual harassment. In the workplace a man and woman meet up and he says “hi, where’s my hug”. The women cringes and hugs him to “keep the peace”. This is no longer acceptable but in my security job my older colleagues did it all the time. He just could not shrug off his male tradition.

This is my topic today. That some men cant suddenly put aside in ground traditional ways. They have been expected to change “overnight” seemingly. A subtle word like “love”, “darling” can now have ramifications in the workplace. I agree it should be weeded out but some understanding that the education side of this change has been wanting. In security where I worked it was a series of memo’s. It takes more than memo’s to change this. It takes persuasion, patience and tolerance. It also takes and understanding of intent. Watching a 60yo male colleague suffer embarrassment (1998)over calling a female cleaner “ok love” and suffer disciplinary action is an overkill.

On the same token it must be really hard for women to endure unwelcome touching and have to break their comfort zone by stopping such actions, however well meaning.

Tony WK

[Elizabeth CP]

Tony I think a crucial thing is communication & sometimes stepping back to try to understand the other person's motives. If for example a woman silently accepts a hug from a man over time & then suddenly decides enough is enough & explodes it must be confusing for the man thinking what he's doing is Ok then finding out its not. That principle applies whatever side of the fence you are.

on a lighter note. Several years ago my son had been renovating his bathroom so there was no working bath or shower. Towards the end of the renovation he was hit by a car & no longer able to carry out many normal activities due to his injuries. Each night they visited our home to shower & bath their 1 year old son. We were amused to find out my son always bathed my grandson because he enjoyed that time with his son & it helped his wife out. Unfortunately one year olds are stubborn & can't understand why their dad can't bath them so my DIL had a major battle each night trying to wash her son. I notice that once my son recovered they were more careful to share chores so their children don't get so dependent on one parent doing any particular task.

You are correct about my husband he really struggled when he was unable to do tasks he had previously. This led to some difficulties eg when he ended up in hospital after injuring himself trying to mow when blind.

[white knight]

So interesting about your son bathing his son. Another reason the share chores.

My first reaction to your husband trying to mow...I'm sorry but I felt "poor man".

However we survive with our restrictions, we have to adapt, no other choice. I know the combination of DVT both legs, back, and the stuff "up the top" is a battle often but we dust ourselves off and get on with it. Mowing the lawn, a chore but an important part of some of us.

Thanks for being here Elizabeth

Tony WK

[Just Sara]

I'm sorry for the mental brain fart of a post I did. It was 4am. This thread is too triggering for me Tony, so I'll leave you to delve into your issues for now with others who can contribute healthy responses.

Sez

[white knight]

Hi Sez,

Please do things you are comfortable with. I'm well aware of triggers. I actually missed your post. Don't know why, I read peppers and related it to me- sorry

I understand where you are at with the topic, and your feeling of loss.

Thankyou for trying. So, I want to send you a poem. I wrote it many moons ago. See my uncle and pop owned dairy farms in Tasmania. I don't believe we men will change too much, everything goes in circles.

Take care my friend.

THE OLD REDGUM

The old farmer taught his son

all the knowledge he had

He'd sit him under the old gum tree

As he has himself, as a lad

And every now and then

Off to that tree they'd go

talk about their farming chores

their profits and their woes

When the old man laid

on a bed he'd never leave

his son returned to that old redgum

where both began to grieve

Sap fell upon his shoulder

as the tree began to weep

both of them in each others arms

quietly they fell asleep

And every now and then

the young farmer would take his son

along to that old red gum

another story had begun.....

Tony WK

[Quercus]

Hi again everyone 😊

Sara I didn't think of your post as a "brain fart" just as a valid feeling.

Reading my post above and then reading your post made me realise we can have lots of different feelings on one topic. For example I want my husband to teach our son that being a man doesn't mean hiding his emotions or pretending to be someone he is not. But I also relate to stereotypical roles of men and women.

Growing up our roles were very set and even now although I want change for my children personally, for ME, I somewhat like the traditional roles. We cannot change what appeals and attracts us and to me part of the attraction to my husband is his masculinity.

In terms of his emotions I know he has them. But he is very selective who he shows them to. And to me that trust in me makes me feel absolutely special. That I am one of the very few he lets in to know him.

That said... I see the harm. When our son was a baby he started a new job and caught a "cold". He soldiered on. See a doctor? Nah. Rest? No time. I am the breadwinner and I don't have time to be sick. I bribed and nagged and scolded and cried and yelled and he stood firm. I am the man and I must provide. Finally his days off arrived. He took himself to the doctor finally. And was taken to the ER. The "cold" was pneumonia. The pneumonia untreated gave him blood poisoning. They told him he had a 20% chance of dying.

Nursing a very sick husband and a baby and another on the way and the beginning of a new depression taking hold... he still couldn't see how foolish the "take it like a man"attitude was. He joked that if he'd died I would have got life insurance and super.

I burst into tears. And he stared still confused. Until I started yelling. I don't want your fkn money. I love you you bloody idiot. Your son needs you. This unborn baby needs you. For YOU. For the person you are inside. Not for what you GIVE us.

So we're learning. We're trying to teach our son to know men have feelings and that is ok. And we're trying to teach my daughter women are strong and self reliant. The two lessons we missed. He as a man. Me as a woman.

[white knight]

Hi all

This thread has been going at such a pace, I missed two posts.

Sorry Quercus and Sez.

Tony WK

[white knight]

Ok guys, ready?

My fav colour- hot pink.

In 1974 I saw one if only two dozen hot pink Holden Torana xu1 ever made. The original colour was named "strike me pink" and with black trim it was amazing.

Fast track to 2009 and I was to order a motorcycle trike in pink. At the ladt minute changed to yellow, why? Resale value only.

Pastel hot pink, wow.

Now, the pressure from male friends was unfair. It hurt. Also homophobic accusations were made.

All over a colour?

What do you all think?

Tony WK