Men isolated

[white knight]

I'd like to hear from men. I want to know your inner feelings about anything that you feel isolated about. I'd like to know if you feel that the revolution towards equality of the sexes has gone too far to a point whereby you are feeling inferior to women or you feel women are being treated better in any way - just because you are a man.

Emotionally, are you feeling that you get enough support from females? Do you feel women are afraid to hug you to comfort you for any reason? like you'll take advantage of them? Do you have many female friends? Do you feel that women socialize better? What do YOU want socially?

Feel free, talk, let go of your restraints, take advantage of the anonymous environment to let yourself be heard. We can do this and be in error, that our presumptions are ill directed and unfair. It could be our own inapproachability for example that can sway women away from us when we need them most.

Are we misread? I know when I'm in conflict with someone I come across as a little aggressive or arguing in a normal male manner and that can portray someone that is not in need of support but is someone to avoid. NOTHING could be further from the truth.

So that's one gripe. I feel women don't pursue the friendship care far enough. Such limited care results in my feelings of isolation. I think I'm a "giver" apart from my supportive wife no woman supports me anywhere near the level I give to them. Is this an illusion? What do you think?

Two people. One a woman that enters a group, say a hobby group. She sits down and isn't feeling emotionally well. She is asked a question like "how is your day"? She burst into tears. The whole group of 10 ladies stand and hold her hand, hand on her shoulder, comforting and reassurance. She is not alone. They even ring her later and talk at length. The other person a middle aged male enters a motoring clubroom in his local town, his male friends restore cars and share drinks. He sits and realizes he was in no shape to attend. A guy asks him how his restoration is going. He is upset thinking about his car as due to his depression he hasn't been to his shed for weeks. He suddenly starts crying. The men, all of whom start to feel uncomfortable, mention a few things like" you'll get there don't worry". He is worried because he knows that half of the men there actually think he is a softy by crying, to stand clear of him because he has problems, to avoid him as it might upset their own happy day in the sun....

Tony WK

[white knight]

SOCIETY OF SAND

I’m sitting in a desert
Upon sand of friend and foe
Can’t find a piece of turf
Where I cannot stand on toes

I collect a handful of grain
Then watch as it escapes
Just like some friendships
A barren temporary landscape

I create my own oasis
By weeping on a weed
But the sand around me laughs
Cause it doesn’t have a need

Till lately I wish it be the friends
That help me walk the land
Just holding me up under my feet
-supportive grains of sand

I begin to sink so slowly
As they gather my precious hide
The quick sand laughing so loud
A kind man says goodbye

And as I become one of ‘them’
My heart now granuled and dry
I try to weep to water the weed
But sand has no means to cry

Damn it! I struggle so
Be damned if I be like them
I crawl out of the society of sand
To remain the man I am…


Tony WK

[james1]

hello,

Thanks for starting this thread tony. I'm commenting on your point in the first post about the men's motoring group.

So I feel pressured to be a "stereotypical man" - strong, able, sports, work, woodcraft, cars, firm, beer, no nonsense, boys nights..etc. This comes from my parents when they comment on how bad I am at sports compared to my other guy friends. It comes from high school lunch time talk about girls and female teachers. It comes from co-workers asking me about sports. It comes from me being embarrassed to admit I don't know how to change a tire and having to ask my ex's father to help.

Lots of small things that add up, each one questioning whether I am a "man".

Now, coming from an all boys' school with certain types of people, questioning whether I fit into the stereotypical male mould feels like questioning my sexuality. At school, you were either super straight alpha male, or you were gay. My friends, and even my girlfriend, routinely joke that I could pass as a gay man. There's nothing wrong with this except that I'm not. I don't find it offensive, but I am hurt that my likes and dislikes are not seen as "normal straight man".

I am hurt when people joke that, because I like soft toys, I'm like a little girl. Because I like cushions and interior design and flowers, I'm not one of the boys.

Apparently, not even liking motorbikes can save me!

[Birdy77]

Tony,

Hand on your forearm; "I'm here".

🌻birdy

[white knight]

Like many when in distress I'm thinking of my father.

He was a wonderful man. An old school type. Once I got to 8yo he never hugged me again. But my sister he kept hugging. She was 5 years my junior. When she got to 15yo he still nursed her. I objected "you are too old for that". To which my dad yelled at me "never criticize love Tony". But he never touched me.

TO KISS HIS TEMPLE

There were some things I knew as taboo
to express my love but to question who?
to touch the pale face of my dad back then
when touching taboo...when "men were men"

For boys were male and "you cant do that"
jealous of my sister and that is that
that man couldnt hug his son for how he was seen
nowadays if you hugged your son- well, you'd be relieved.

And so my dad the salt of the land
wouldnt touch me even by hand
he knew he loved me and I him
with a wink of an eye from under his brim

Then that day we all regret came along
where watery eyes was met by song
and there he lie with an eerie smile
I be alone with him for just a while.

As I stroked his forehead cool to touch
I raised my head automatically as such
to kiss his temple of which I dare
I knew his mind was well aware.

Of all the kisses I missed
they gathered together in just one kiss
finally as his spirit rose and went
he left his love and hugs were spent

I never craved again heart be blessed
that tradition of males their love expressed
a kiss on his forehead way back then
ended an era when "men were men"....

Tony WK

[james1]

on that note Tony, I don't know if you've noticed but it's rare to see men give other men real proper hugs.

watch sportsmen when they go to celebrate with their mates, or even console them. The "hug" is actually a pat on the back or at best a series of multiple pats on the back. On the odd occasion where it's actually a squeezing hug, it's from side, shoulder to shoulder.

My mates do this too. It drives me insane.

[white knight]

Hi Birdy,

Re: Tony,
Hand on your forearm; "I'm here".
🌻birdy

You've been reading! That is so nice, just what Dr Tony ordered!! lol No, it does feel good. Why wouldn't it. And any man out there reading- hey guys, this is good, its support, subtle caring support.

James- thankyou for also opening up. I'll get back to that. I am now (sadly) 140kg of overweight but much muscle guy and I'm a fashion guru. My wife knows this too well. I comment on womens hairstyle, clothes, personality etc. My fav show is 100% hotter. It's a show about women that are a train wreck in terms of how much better they can look with different make overs. There we are my wife and I like we are on the side of a catwalk. It's great.

This is the emergence of the feminine side of the male that is battling against old fashioned male armour. Yes, they wont get it. They see a guy with a soft persona or liking what is traditionally a female like, and relate that to girly type- so wrong. Frankly it would anger me so much I would have to drift, I'm sorry if that offends but your strength is among your own and/or those that accept you...as the wonder you are.

Topic: fortress of survival- beyondblue is about such.

Topic: accepting yourself, the frog and the scorpion- beyondblue

Tony WK

[Elizabeth CP]

I am also listening Tony & James.

I think equality is a difficult issue. There will always be problems until we accept our differences. They are not bad they make the world a better place. I also think that there have been other things which tradition says males & females are different which are not true eg eg men don't cry, they don't need affection like women do etc. I also understand that certain activities are not done by 'real' men. A friends son took up hairdressing as a career but left after being constantly told he was gay. He wasn't he just chose a career not accepted by most men. Another person I know had similar response as he joined the Australian Ballet School. According to his critics' only gay men do ballet'. Everyone has the right to chose their own interests & career & not be restricted by other people's ideas of what 'real' men (or women) do.

[white knight]

Hi Elizabeth

Yes we have a long way to go to get to an acceptable level of freedom of men doing certain sports, hobbies, interests.

Take netball amd basketball. Ive always wanted to play netball. I couldnt dribble a ball!. But I dare not try to play netball. I found AFL too rugged.

Hairdressing is a creative challenging profession that a young man should be able to pursue without teasing.

Lets be clear, in the young male world peer ridicule can be harmful and alienating. Career or mates? A dilemma.

Thete are some advancements. "It takes a man to cry" is one. Gay men and women feeling free to "come out". Past homophonic men transitioning to acceptance of all.

Tony WK

[Just Sara]

Venus and Mars both (╥﹏╥) in private, but women can do it in full view of others without them blinking an eyelid. Men don't have this luxury 'yet'.

[blondguy]

Hi TonyWK

I have found some television advertising bizarre with the occasional commercial showing a female rolling her eyes and shaking her head at her male partner. These commercials have been approved by some major global and multi national companies purely to increase their revenue as the majority of retail shoppers are female.

At the expense of the male gender unfortunately

It appears we have a long way to go. Thanks Tony

Paul