BEING POSITIVE what's the secret?

[white knight]

When the world is evil, people are cruel and nothing works out for you.How can you possibly rise up above it all?

We live on a cliff face. At any moment we could fall over it. I know now that by being positive I will never fall over it even though I still sit on that cliff edge.It's a paradox but that cliff face is a reminder of where I could have ended up had I not changed my thinking. I was programmed a boy of doom and gloom. I had to erase the tape and reboot.

There are two ways of changing from a negative person to a positive one. The first is shock. Attending a lecture or having a serious event in your life take place whereby you snap into positivity. The second is slowly changing your thinking process over time.

Whenever you are faced with a negative you have to replace it with a positive. How do we do that. It isnt easy and for some it isnt obvious at all. Here are some examples-

I'm miserable because its cold and raining outside - I'm happy that I'm warm and dry inside in front of a fire

My brother died at 27 and I was only 24yo - I'm proud of my brothers achievements over such a short life

I baked a cake and it was a failure - I baked a cake and left the egg out, I'll do better ext time

I had to wait at the doctors for 2 hours - The doctor might have had an emergency

I cant get out of bed - I am unwell today, I'm hoping I'll feel better tomorrow

I've been branded a snob - I am a quiet person but I am kind and considerate and dont need to prove it

You get the picture. It takes practice.  Some tragedies arent easy to swallow. We live in the country and seeing animals killed on the side of the road is hurtful. My wife and I tend to say to each other "well, if they were injured we'd get them to the refuge to give them a chance". 

Give it a go. Be persistent.  You will drop back into negativity often but keep trying. In the end like me you will sit on that cliff edge but one day you'll take a peak over the edge to realise the drop is only a few feet, not the kilometres it used to be.

[CrashCoyote]

Hi White Rose, 

Thank you for your email. 

I understand the “free will” argument but that does not allow for things like tornadoes, earthquakes and the like. Even in our society we allow Insurance Companies to refer to such events as “acts of God” and our Civil Legal System accepts that as an out for them. So if a person decides to drive a car through your lounge room, the insurer will pay. If it is flattened by a tornado, they won't. So clearly (at least in our society) there is a way of distinguishing between the acts of individuals and the acts beyond the control of individuals. 

But my post is not one of theology. I am trying to find some helpful way to combat the “bad” things that happen in my life. In my understanding, for all of recorded history, mankind has tried to understand why things happen. Of course, no one can ever give a comforting (or even good) reason about why some babies and children die, or why some women are unable to bear children, or why a young man is struck down with pancreatic cancer. You get the picture. So society has chosen two main paths; You must accept it because it was caused by events beyond your control (the act of God, the “reason”) and so hopefully you can find comfort in that. (Keeping in mind that religion had a lot greater sway on the community and much greater power – even fifty years ago – than it does now. What a great philosophical discussion that could be!) OR you can recognise that there is no “reason” and the normal feelings of denial, bargaining, anger, depression and acceptance – you may recognise these as the five stages of grief – are all bound to happen and we need to recognise they will happen and to what degree we can manage them. 

My experience is that there are no short cuts and we all need to move through each stage, just that some stages hold us captive longer than others. Maybe different readers will draw different things from our posts and I hope that both of us have been able to provide some help to others. As you pointed out, we are largely in agreement. 

Still, I must say that if I am an agnostic, it is because God made me that way! LOL. 

Kind regards, John.

P.S. When I say "God" I mean any God or God's that people see as their deity.

[CrashCoyote]

Hi Jo,

I wrote to you earlier today but am still waiting for it to show. I haven't forgotten you!

John.

[White_Rose]

Great post John

I was reacting to your God stuff I suppose, but I think it is relevant.

So called Acts of God is a dreadful expression and follows the the argument I was deploring.  Bad things, including tornadoes, are not acts of God in a vindictive way but phenomena of nature.  If insurance companies used that phrase or a similar phrase it would be far more accurate.

But my argument still stands.  Often these phenomena happen because of someone's actions.  Chop down all the trees and remove the vegetation.  The result is a mudslide in the rainy season.  Whose fault is that?  I suspect that would be classified as an act of God by the insurance companies which is why I am unhappy with it.  It is our irrational need and/or greed for a materialistic lifestyle which is the real culprit.

But enough of that issue.  How do we move through the bad times and emerge at the other end.  The five stages of grief are useful to keep in mind in any difficult situation and in general that's the way we cope.  It is usually painful and the time taken to get to the other end varies enormously from person to person.  But is it always the case that we need to go through this process?

Grief and loss, whatever the reason, will I believe always hurt.  And that includes grief arising from hurtful actions, the loss of respect.  However, if we learn to make ourselves more resilient then this sort of pain and the emotions we often feel, as you describe above, will feature far less prominently in our lives.

I have often wondered how psychologists, psychiatrists and other counselors manage to stay 'sane' in the face of the heartbreak many of their clients reveal.  There have been several comments on these posts about the effect of other people's posts on the reader.  People often write that X has described their own life and I imagine this can push buttons better left alone and causes additional sadness for the reader to read of the writer's problems.

Professional health workers are taught to remain objective and uninvolved in the drama in order to retain their own mental health.  However, I'm not sure it always works.  But the point is, what do they do and how.  And can we do the same in our lives.  Or is this back to the original question, are we supposed to suffer in order to make us better people?  Now I could easily wax philosophical on that subject.

White Rose

[Neil_1]

Hi all

This is one helluva "HOT" thread.  I can't recall seeing a thread before that is matching the amount of posts to the amount of 'views' of it.  Brilliant stuff.

I just want to take a slight diversion on this - but it has been mentioned.

John mentioned the five stages of grief - denial, bargaining, anger, depression and acceptance.

Personally I've had to experience a number of deaths of family members and also of a couple of mates during my journey so far.  But I would like to just ask with regard to say 2 of them:   the most harsh of all for me - my brother and also my father.

I can honestly say that with both, out of those 5, I think I've only experienced three.  Could that be right?  Although, I guess I do áccept' the fact that they ain't here anymore.  I just HATE it with my whole being and hence why I'm still grieving.  But the óption of bargaining??   Can anyone explain the 'bargaining' phase??  Surely bargaining usually takes 2 people.  This is a general question:  who are you bargaining with?

Kind regards

Neil

[CrashCoyote]

Hi Neil,

Thank you for your post.

I disagree with White Rose in that I think the five stages of grief, however defined, are by definition unavoidable. They are, in my experience, contiguous. One must move from one to the next. No shortcuts. I have often thought that if I knew how to avoid any of them I could make a small fortune sharing that information!

The bargaining phase. Again, in my experience, it need not be a Faustian bargain. It could be with a deity or even someone like a doctor. "If you can cure the cancer I will (insert desperate offer here)." I begged a God that I do not believe in to bring back my daughter and I would happily die in her place. I also silently asked who would God like me to kill in her place? Bargaining is not based in logic (we know deep down that the dead can not be resurrected) nor is it fruitful. Is it just a stage of grief.

I am not qualified to say if you have skipped a stage, going from anger to acceptance. Maybe ask a professional. My guess is that you are still in anger.

My friend Neil, you will always miss those close to you. I think those feelings are more about how you manage the feelings, as White Knight originally mentioned.

Kind regards, John

P.S. It is a good thread. I love these philosophical discussions. When I was in hospital for PTSD and the booze, I felt very safe as any of us could talk about anything and for all its troubled patients, a real aura of acceptance. I feel that on these threads.

[CrashCoyote]

Hi White Rose,

Thank you for your post.

You have raised the question of how "professionals" remain objective or uninvolved. Like you, I'm not convinced they all do. I know that most get de-briefed regularly and no doubt are able to keep a certain professional distance. I do not see how that guarantees they stay shielded from normal human reaction, especially when they are bombarded daily with the most horrible stories of what are their client's reality.

My ex-wife is a trained psychologist. Our 24 old son is struggling with pot and booze addictions. We are attempting to co-operate to provide cogent support but she has been enabling him for over a year and only recently acknowledged it. Her training could not stop her reacting emotively. Obviously she wants to do whatever it takes to help but it isn't easy for her to follow the advice she might be inclined to give others in her situation.

My last long term relationship (seven years) was with a grief counsellor (not how we met) and she has a lot of her own issues going on. I'm not griping. I still love her and tried very hard to support her through treatment that she still resists. She often lamented that she could help other people address their issues but could not do the same for herself.

These are two experiences I saw first hand. One of a trained professional unable to resist an emotive response. The other of a woman who has her own anxiety and relationship issues going on yet daily provides counselling. (I'm sure she is very good at it, too.) I'm just saying that it doesn't mean they go into that field sane nor that they can keep professional distance.

Perhaps, like in most jobs, it is not always possible to get the ideal person for the job and we, as a society, must accept that.

Does that help?

Kind regards, John.

[Neil_1]

Having said all that, I'm not aiming for any sympathy, because I don't deserve it, because of the guilt that I feel for not being able to save my brother.  In fact, there should be SIX stages - guilt(y).

No amount of counselling can ever make that right for me.  That's tattooed inside my brain - my whole being and will be forever. And you know the consequences of the actions that I took on that fateful Wednesday afternoon back on 13th February 1991 have so many far flung repercussions.

Oh look, I'll shut up - because this is not a post for my complaints.

Let's get back to the gist of this post.

Trying to be positive - and holy c**p, I sure have diverted away from that.

Neil

[white knight]

mmmm, I didnt know a few of those phases of grief.  But they fit in well.

Of course we can be as positive as we have ever been but when a loved one passes it will feel like it wont do you any good.  Grief ......it puts me in a state of mind that's....well....dormant, that sense of great loss and that of never getting over it.

And you never do "get over it". We learn after time to manage as it tucks itself in the back of our minds. The rest of the mind is busy returning to those daily routines.

This is the phase I use to turn things around. To not return to those terrible weeks of crying and being distraught, headaches and feeling alone. An example. This written 6 months after my dad passed away in 1992

DAD'S WRINKLES

Soon it became obvious

as my ol' man came of age

that the strain of life itself

did complete another page

And as 'his' book filled up

to approach the final scene

I knew each wrinkle on his face

and which ones came from me

And as I read the last line

of a chapter not complete

it tells of his twilight years

that he knew he'd never meet

Dad was never scared to die

he faced it brave and strong

and I knew each wrinkle on his face

and where they did come from....

That poem in my view is clarity, a  word I've used many times before. Clarity, comes in many forms, facts, when emerging out of grief, photos, reflection to name some. eg Yes my dad had wrinkles and yes they meant something and yes they had meaning, a reason to be there and it wasnt negative it was EXPLANATION. I ,loved all of him and wrinkles were a wonderful characteristic.

So back to these phases of grief.  I've learned that all you can do in the first phase is comfort. So each phase of your friend or relative that proceeds through these phases would need you, the carer or the friend, to pace yourself as those phases arrive to be replaced by the next phase. A person in deep grief two days after a funeral wouldnt be ready for some motivation lecture. But would welcome sharing a cuppa.

So the 'art' of assisting someone in grief has its phases for the sufferer and the helper.

[Jo3]

John

You sound like an amazing guy, honest, caring and very supportive of your family and friends. You always know what to say to people on here, you have been a great support to me and I really appreciate what you say to me.

Before reading your post I was in a dark place tonight. But I started to read your post and I started to laugh, yes laugh!! From how you explained your aunties in Greece, OMG that is how my grandparents were, my aunties as well. Didn't matter how much you tell them you are full - they don't understand that word "full". And then they stuff you with dessert, and by the time you got home you would need some mylanta to help all the food go down!!! And try telling them that you're on a diet, that word doesn't exist either!!  Because they would say that you look sick and feed you more.   How I miss my extended family.

John, you made me shed a tear when you said that we are like family and that you do care and everyone on here understands and cares.

Some days I don't feel that I am special, i don't feel like i should have all this attention, advice, support, care; i think that's my negative talking here (sorry).

I also like the life of wogs.And even though I was born here I still love the italian culture, the italian way of doing things, the songs, the dances etc. - if only my family would do this that would make me happy - but they don't. Oh well at least I try hard with my own kids and I really enjoy and am proud when all three children are home for tea and two have their partners.  We sit altogether and chat and eat, that's what family is to me.

Thanks again John

Your friend Jo

[White_Rose]

Hi John and Everyone Else

I'm not convinced about professional people either when it comes to their own griefs and hurts.  I suppose it is different when it is on your own doorstep.  Nevertheless they do need to cope with a great deal of emotional trauma experienced by their clients and however difficult it is they appear to manage better than their clients.

OK, so they are not experts in this field.  People who write on this site provide a great deal of sound advice, empathy and support.  How do you do this folks, given that you are also dealing with huge difficulties?  What allows you to stand back, to whatever extent, and offer a helping hand to others?

What is it in us that allows us to put aside our own feelings, our anxieties, fears, sadness, guilt and general awfulness to help others?  And having found the energy and compassion to do this, why do we not apply this to ourselves?  Surely we deserve as much help as anyone else, or is this the point.  We consider ourselves worthless and therefore make little or no effort to help ourselves but fight quite hard to reassure, comfort and help others.

Maybe this is the answer.  We constantly need someone to hold out a hand and push or pull us to 'safety', but instead we isolate ourselves and cut ourselves off from help.  Well I'm not saying anything new or unknown.  But perhaps we can look at ourselves from a different perspective.

If I'm stating obvious just pretend I said nothing.

White Rose