OUTCASTS

[Grazee]

I've had a long life and I'd say . . . only a few regrets. One thing that does upset me is that for a large part of my life I've been an outcast. Early on Society wanted to punish and transform me but as the years have progressed I guess being gay got a little easier; but I'm still an outcast. As I watch TV I'm confronted with a hetro world that is continually in my face. I get angry when I'm forced to view straight love scenes and sex encounters. I have feelings of love and desire that are wholesome and natural but the straight media simply ignores my needs. I find it further insulting that straight society portrays lesbian encounters and I'm led to believe, get turned on by them. Weird?

But create a scene where two men kiss each other, this is deemed unacceptable.

I believe that the Libs, if they win the election, will conduct a plebiscite on gay marriage. That's ridiculous! If two people of either sex want to make a commitment to each other, they don't need anyone's approval.

My journey is coming to an end and I sincerely hope that younger generations will rebel at being outcasts. We gays are wonderful, caring intelligent and resourceful people who very rarely indulge in violence. We should be welcomed unconditionally into all aspects of life in this wonderful world.

[white knight]

Well said kaz.

Tony WK

[Paul]

Alan Turing is my hero - he is the father of the modern computing concept.

[justinok]

I know there's a lot of well meaning people here on bb (although I wish more gay people would post, it seems every time I come in here to the sexuality section I see more posts from straight people telling me about their perspective haha). If I had one wish for these discussions it's that straight people wouldn't get so defensive when we point out what the world is like for us to live in. I don't see it happening in threads about depression.

It's like with what happened to Aboriginal people, yes you personally as a white person didn't murder anyone, but we're part of a society and system that did, and continues to oppress. I dunno, maybe sometimes we feel that we need to go out of our way to say how much we aren't racist, and then the conversation just becomes awakward. That's what I see happening here when straight people try to partricipate in these threads. Yes it's great that you treat everyone equally, I would hope so. I treat everyone equally too but I don't feel the need to tell everyone about it because I just expect that's what any normal decent human would do. It'd be like telling everyone that I breath and blink my eyes.

Grazee mate I do worry that things aren't getting better and don't change. The plebiscite really upsets me too. I just wonder if sometimes straight people actually understand how insulting it is. Imagine if, as a straight guy, your neighbour got to vote on whether you were allowed to marry your wife. How could you look them in the eye without feeling demeaned and like they have power over you? Should I start being extra nice to every straight person I meet from now on in the hope they'll vote YES on my civil rights?

I'm just ranting now, sorry.

[Grazee]

I am concerned at the last part of your last sentence . . . .'and not having to hold back or justify myself.' What are you trying to say? If its not to personal can you talk with me?

[Gruffudd]

Hi there,

I think it is when I as a gay person say what my experience has been which I know can be confronting to hear, or when I suggest something like equality in marriage or talk about my role in parenting children - the response can be a negative one with the suggestion that I am somehow upsetting them or getting my own story wrong. That happens in the lunch room at work, it happens sometimes in a church group. I don't get that response with LGBTI peers. I guess it means I would like to see the world change to a point where talking about my life in just the same way straight people do isn't an uncomfortable thing. I'd be much happier.

Rob.

[Grazee]

Well . . . I enjoyed your rant. Your absolutely right . . . no one but gay folks know what its like to be gay. I remember saying to one of my psychiatrists that he couldn't treat me because he was straight and had no idea what its like to be gay.

Sydney Mardi Gras troubles me some times. What the straight folks lining the streets see is a flamboyant parade of gays proclaiming that this is what being gay is all about. Its definitely not! There are many thousands of gays who aren't flamboyant but keep their sexual orientation private. But of course it's better than nothing.

I regard the quest to achieve acceptance, equality and legal rights as the new civil rights movement. Americans of African descent only achieved their civil rights by using their numbers to shake up the establishment.

But first we have to deal with religious nutters and that horrible book called the bible.

[Grazee]

Exactly! You shouldn't be made to feel different because your not. Nature simply made you attracted to your own sex and that's been going on since Adam was a speck. In ancient times it was never an issue; in fact ancient Thebes had a battalion of fighters made up, of gay couples who would fight side by side. Unfortunately it was Christianity that evoked the sigma associated with homosexuality even when their own priests were practicing gays.

We've all got to start feeling good about ourselves and recognize our self worth. If people give you the cold shoulder just laugh right back in their face. Make it their problem . . . not yours.

[Gruffudd]

I have no trouble with faith, it has been a useful for me and given reason to live. Definitely there has been much harm done by some people in the institutions and the pressure to have and keep unjust policy and law. It was King Henry VIII that introduced the civil/common law act which evolved into what was being protested against in 1978 with the first mardigras. It was no parade, it was a protest ending in violence with the police, and for my generation I think that time of agitation for change along with the AIDS epidemic are what shaped us. Do you know any of the 78'ers Graham? We can trade stories about them.

I tend to go with living just as I am, and worrying about any implications of that as they happen. It has gotten much easier to do that over the last decade and the abuse has reduced quite a lot. I agree that it might seem sometimes that the change is too slow or that it is the same conversation. I also see straight people on this forum and elsewhere who have had reasons to reflect on their views and how they have treated people and quite genuinely are seeking change themselves. Sometimes they say things that trigger memories of the words and behaviour I have experienced in the past, or say stuff that comes across dismissive of what for us is big but in their context not so much. I will react in this forum and perhaps rant a little, it is an LGBTI space after all and I want to support others like me, it can be a little sharp and getting the balance right is a work in progress.

I think the way out of being an 'outcast' is in joining with everyone else. Not everyone wants to or can live in a ghetto. For me though, even with living openly, I benefit from being able to be myself in a space with people like me - I need both.

[Grazee]

The only 78'ers I know are dead. I remember it well; it was a follow-on from 'Stonewall' in the US. Those guys and girls who said enough is enough are heroes to the gay rights movement. Without Stonewall we would still be living in fear.It's a tragedy that, just as the riot gave impetus to the gay movement, AIDS came along and we had to abandon the struggle for rights to deal with the struggle for life.

As to joining with everyone else, consider this. I moved from Sydney down to the Mornington Peninsular and made friendships at the local pub. I attended BBQ's at peoples homes and reciprocated at my home. This went on for three years until they found out I was gay. Immediately they all shunned me; wouldn't speak to me and avoided me. So much for 'joining' in.

I really felt alone until I started talking on BB. I hope you're getting as much out of this as I am.

[Gruffudd]

Oh Graham, I have the same sort of experience, moving town, making friends only to have them disengage or shun. It really is a kick in the guts. I know it is unhelpful to get angry with that because only I suffer, I do though, how dare they. I decided a few years ago that people who are going to be like that will at whatever stage they find out, so I decided to be brave and to be somewhat camp and mostly out there from the moment I meet people. there is a price to pay, I definitely have less friends, I am rather visible in the small communities where I live and work, but the friends I have are better more reliable people. I have to travel further between them but it is worth it for me. I guess when I join in it is on my terms. I find it hard to describe how it feels when a straight person goes and lets his friends know that their violence and mean words about me are not acceptable to him.

I appreciate you being here on BB too, being gay makes you family in my thinking, and a friend I hope over time.

The impact of AIDS for me is more people I know in my generation and that awareness that there are too few people in the generations that are older.

I have one 78'er left, she is half of the lesbian couple I mentioned earlier. She is a butch dyke. Listening to her talk about what life has been like is a privilege. I think there is wisdom that only comes with being able to look back on life. We have in our stories individually and as a community what it takes to survive and thrive in the context of adversity.

Rob.