Wife withdrawn

[Duesentrieb]

Hi guys,

I am married to my wife for 18 years.

Since the beginning she used the Silent Treatment (ST) in any conflict or when something didn't go her way. We discussed it but without any success. The fact that I always ran after her, trying to pacify her, didn't really help either.

2018 the ST increased. I wrote her a letter. She laughed it off by saying that I would be over-dramatic and that she wouldn't do anything. How could I be possibly affected. I even suggested counseling, but she refused categorically.      

Bringing up issues in the relationship has always been a difficult one. Often, she

- gets passive aggressive (silent treatment, defiance, sulking)

- use deflection (OK, but you.... )

-  projection (accusing me of not loving her, being happy when she is not around, etc.)

- minimized the issue and my view (no true, I am sensitive, etc.)

Tries to clarify something after silent treatment could lead to another round of it with her saying … if you would love me you would know what you did wrong

I started to research, and it went from ST to narcissism. In addition, I learned that I am a people pleaser, emotional dependent,  and anxious about conflicts. When she was angry, I switched into a childlike frozen state. As well I learned that the relationship is quite single sided when it comes to affection, attention, effort, etc.

I stopped to run after her when she gave me the ST. I became more assertive but as well at times judgmental, resentful, etc.

2019 my wife found that I was in a Facebook group about narcissism and that I talked to other people about our issues. Both, she considered as a major breach of trust. I understand her anger and apologized.

Since this time, she is totally withdrawn, stone-walls me, conversations are just functional, etc. I constantly tried to reconnect but without success. She just does not open up. If I ask I get just a simple "All OK". I went for counseling twice and both counselors confirm that she seems to be difficult (see below).

I am at my wits end. The difficulties are one thing but the distance she creates kills me. Any advice?

[Duesentrieb]

Thank you so much white knight for sharing your story. Of course she will tell me that she did the silent treatment to protect her... or before she says something that she may regret.

We had situations that I was standing in front of her, crying... but she staid cold as ice. I brought her food, she didn't touch it, I picked her up at the train station because it was raining, no change in behavior. Wrote her a letter that this behavior will erode the relationship... no change. Only after I started to ignore her silent treatment she got better but it is quite obvious that she didn't like that change.

I am somehow wondering if my wrongdoings... being in a Facebook group about narcissism (quite clear accusing her of narcissism) and that I wrote / talked in FB to other people about our issues, justifies her withdrawal / behavior.

The groups were closed groups but if a friend of ours would be member too, they possibly could see it.

Some people I talked to, see it that way. And yes I am guilty again somehow as I write / discuss the issues here, again.

She basically says she better keeps quite before there is anything that I could use against her or analyze her (indirect saying she is defective).

But on the other hand her withdrawal is so much more then only just to be quite.

What are your thoughts? 

[HiThere19]

I’ve never posted on here before, I read a lot but too nervous to post, but I just couldn’t go past this one. I feel like I could have written any one of your descriptions myself, about my husband and I. I have tried letters, talks, empathising, all attempts at getting him to see what his coldness and inability to apologise or open up to me was doing. He only ever got angry and defensive. Never changed, in his mind he was doing nothing wrong and I needed to get over it. It was always me misinterpreting him, because I was too emotional and sensitive, never once reflected on whether it was him putting out coldness. And I believed it. I would go away and work on myself, wondering why I was so sensitive. It’s the loneliest place I can imagine. Sadly for me he only ever paid attention when I became close friends with another male. And I only realised the full extent of the effect it was having on me when suddenly, in the company of the other man, I didn’t feel like that anymore. I felt light, and positive, and confident, my issues that plagued me seemed more manageable. I ended up in an emotional affair. Now it’s become all about how could I do that to him, the problems I had weren’t that bad, life was perfect I went and messed it all up. I’ve spiralled into doubt and misery even further. So don’t go down that pathway if you can avoid it, but do take time to really know yourself, with and without your partner. It’s ok to focus on you. I don’t believe my husband acted that way out of malice or cruelty, he’s not a bad person, and your partner probably isn’t either, but I’ve realised we can’t change them if they won’t even acknowledge a problem, and we shouldn’t need to. But we can make the decision whether we want an emotional disconnection for life. All the best. 

[Duesentrieb]

Hi HiThere19, thank you so much for sharing your story.

For me it is not anymore the big stuff e.g. silent treatment, etc. It does not trigger me anymore and I have tools to deal with that. I believe both of us are not good in communication (funny though that 2 counselors confirmed that I am super easy to work with as I am opening up quite easily), guilty of not being very outspoken, being afraid of conflict, etc. I am not even looking anymore at who did this and who did that. I think both of us did a lot of damage.

I try to let go, step back and look at the big picture but unfortunately I see someone that does not put any effort into a possible improvement. I don't want to list all the indicators here but living with my sister would be more warm / fun / communicative / etc. ...

I can only speculate why she can't reach a similar point. But looking back, I learned that in any conflict her anger, hurt, disappointment, etc. which she mainly expressed via silent treatment, sulking and defiance had always the highest priority. Or in other words my wrongdoings are major, her wrongdoings are minor.

I am at a point that I do not want to accept that cold, distant, affection-less live anymore, justifiable by her or not. If I would discuss that with her she will say I pressure her which will cause drama highlighting my wrongdoings and/or she will only act... which is already partly the case today (fake smiles).

It just crossed my mind... She complained about it... I do not allowed her to express her anger (using silent treatment)... I just do not react anymore as previously (chasing her)... 

Reading my last sentence ... I get the impression she always needs the tool of guilt-ing someone.. therefore her suffering is always bigger then anyone's else... 

[white knight]

Hi,

It's good you have a few conversations going on here with others so you get a widespread view on this complicated issue.

I knew a man from a country lets say "Berty" as to not upset someone. I had a father in law that was stubborn and unreasonable from the same mother country. I approach the first one "I'm having issues with my FIL and asked him his opinion. "Argh Tony, that because he's from Berty he's stubborn and arrogant and you cant reason with him". I was shocked. I said "But you are from Berty also."  He replied "yes but I'm not that type of Bertian".

So I learned that countries can have certain cultures and attitudes. It's inground and impossible to change. My 1st wife was very similar to yours, shows no consideration and if she did it would be fake. I'm not with my 2nd wife of 11 years, she often says "thankyou darling for picking my up when its raining". And I return the compliments. No empathy when you are upset is a red flag. 

"Wrongdoings"? What you seem to be experiencing is lack of freedom inside your marriage. Married you are but your brain is your own, your thoughts, fantasies and views are owned by no one but you. Some try to control that, thats stepping over the line. Rights? You have rights. If you suspect someone of a mental illness or streaks of nastiness that you cannot father then you owe it to yourself as your right to investigate. My mother's behaviour was one that included blackmail. I went to w therapy group in 1980 and was handed a booklet "chapter 3". he said. I read it- it was my mother in every way, under the heading "Emotional blackmail". From then on I had the knowledge and the next time she used it "If you dont break up with that girl I'm going to the country for 2 weeks"... my answer "I'll help you pack your suitcase".

However, leopards dont change their spots and 30 years later (12 years ago) my sister and I stopped seeing her. She's 91yo now and we dont have any desire to see her. Such is the damage done.

I'm sorry for your struggles with her and that I dont have a magic wand, so accepting that this predicament is not your fault and find a world without the adverse behaviour is a goal I certainly hope you seek.

TonyWK

[Duesentrieb]

Hi white knight, thanks for your reply and sharing your experience.

I got more and more the impression that her culture, background and upbringing is maybe mainly the underlying issue. She never saw loving parents (loving each other or her), then a shame based upbringing, etc. I guess in times of stress, pressure, etc. people fall back to their roots, even though it is highly contra productive.

I am far away to be a perfect husband, I have done these things..

...indirectly call her narcissistic, talked to people about marriage issues, made the mistake that someone that wanted, could have looked her up (used my real FB account, instead of a fake)...

I like your statement: "If you suspect someone of a mental illness or streaks of nastiness that you cannot father then you owe it to yourself as your right to investigate". I see that as well totally different, if she thinks I may have an issue she has every right to get information, talk to people, experts even friends. But that's me, in that department I have quite some confidence. You are right,  do not expect any change...

She told me that some time ago she expected me to leave her. I asked her how she comes to that idea. She just said I was super cold and distant. If I ask details,examples she just says.. oh just a feeling. You know I would like to know more, etc. but she doesn't say. She would maybe say it but I have to fall back into the bagging, insecure childlike people pleaser. 

I looked up some time ago the expression "kind narcissist" and that's the best description and explains this huge imbalance.

I think I can say that there is no trust in this relationship anymore, at all. She is currently working a sh*tty job, I told her several times to quit. We would loose some savings but could afford it, but she insists that she (her words) needs the money. When looking at the relationship and it's state she is maybe right.

Yesterday was father's day. I got a hug from her that was weak as... I have no words.

[rhinoceros]

Hi Duesentreib

I'm sorry to hear of you situation. I too was with a narcissist - for 5 1/2 years. I thought I might share my story with you if it is of any help.

My ex, she behaved very much like your wife. The best way I could describe the relationship is 'psychological warfare'. When we started dating, I knew nothing about narcissism, so I didn't pick up on any of the red flags, as subtle as they were.  I left her about a year ago.

My ex was verbally abusive, to an extent I possibly would have preferred physical abuse. The things she would say were so cutting and hurtful, I'm still affected badly by them. I am getting counselling for C-PTSD as a result. There was a lot of emotional abuse, the withholding of affection of any sort, constant mind games and she isolated me from friends (particularly females). She had a cunning way of making me feel bad about almost every aspect of myself I used to feel good, or be proud of. 

I did my best to be as accommodating as possible for her, I deeply cared and loved her. I initially assumed her anger etc. was a result of a shortcoming of mine. It took me almost 5 years to figure out that I wasn't the problem.

The scale of the abuse escalated to a point where my mental health deteriorated to a point where I was starting to be concerned for my own safety, so I left. I had to go 'no-contact'. It was by far the hardest thing I've ever done. It felt like a brutal thing to do to someone who, despite all the abuse, I still loved very much. The first few weeks after leaving were horrific. She tried to get into my house, was contacting my parents. I had to change my phone number, locks on the house etc. It was truly frightening.

I've been single for just over a year now, and can say that at no point have I ever felt as lonely as I did when I was with my ex.  I'm scared of dating etc. now as a direct consequence of my previous relationship, but even with that issue, I am much happier than before. 

I found the resources of a Youtube channel called "Surviving Narcissism" very helpful to me, both whilst I was still in the relationship, and after I left her.

[Duesentrieb]

Hi rhinoceros, thank you so much for your reply.

For me it is not so much of the narc traits which are not very strong and somehow there are tools. I am struggling with this distance, coldness, void, conversations are just functional (what to buy, school, work, etc.) and topics that are somehow shallow.

I believe that my wife already thinks I am the abusive one... to prevent any friction she says basically every time... that what I think but of course you could have a different opinion... I get that, maybe it's her way to protect herself but it kills any intimacy.

On the other hand you can distance yourself to the extend that any interaction, discussion could perceived as a thread. When I am in "my" room and work she knocks at the door frame (door is open) and asks if she can come in.... maybe thinking I am doing something on the computer that she is not allowed to see, etc.

If distancing is abusive then this is definitely abusive....