They just wont understand, why?

[white knight]

We hear those words often. The trouble is, there is a word in that sentence that doesn’t
fit, it shouldn’t be there. It’s the word “wont”

“Wont” means they have a choice to understand your emotional struggles. It should, in many
cases, be replaced with “don’t” or "cant"

For these people are the people we love and they love us. Would they, make the choice of not understanding? Understanding…what does that entail? Do we expect our partners, children, friends and parents to understand what its like to have our minds as if it’s in a cloud? Or throbbing like a migraine? Or whysome of us sleep for what seems endless hours?  What about when our carer partner has been so long without
love making and their frustration explodes and we chant “you just don’t understand”!!!

I put it to you, that it is us also that doesn’t understand what its like to be a partner of a mentally ill person. In respect to this an article I wrote a long time ago now can be googled- “Topic: who cares for the carer- beyondblue” In that thread I mentioned that if you can walk to the toilet, answer the phone and get yourself something to eat during the day while your partner is at work….you can also greet him/her as they walk in the door, have a cuppa and a chat asking how their day went before you slip back into bed if you must.

Some cant, understandably. But some wont! A choice (note the word “wont”) is made. In
these cases they are hurting the ones they love.

I’m lucky, my wife has depression, it comes and goes. We never say “you wont understand”. We both do understand. However my last partner and before her, my first wife, never understood my struggles. Those days I believed that they chose to not understand. I was wrong. They had little hope of understanding. Why?

Simply  because the other person doesn’t “feel” the effects of the illness. And there might also be the blaming effect to, to blame others through our own expectations of what we are pleading for.

Whatever sooths you and comforts you from your partner – tell them what that is. Think about your needs whether is a daily hug, a hand on the shoulder or an ear with the occasional comment or question. For your partner or loved one likely has no concept of what they can do to help. And that in itself can be agonising.

We should never get the feeling or not being loved mixed up with a lack of ability to help us. It’s not
that they wont understand-its more likely they cant understand so they don’t.

Tony WK

[Guest_1643]

thanks tony and em - it's great to have people who understand.

[ecomama]

Hi Sleepy, always a privilege to wrap you up! lol.

This is more for the minimalism thread but I got all the scrappy knee blankets the kids used to use ALL the time, but now they don't lol. I washed & bagged them for the doggie shelter, luckily a lady at work goes there weekly so she takes stuff there for me.

They weren't quite good enough for humans anymore.

I did all this this morning lol because I've been awake since before 4AM oh noice!

I thought of the blankets I did when I saw your post about wrapping you up!

I've often thought that if ALL the awful people were just vacuumed up and put on another planet then we could get on with caring for each other and be very happy people!

Then I realised that as humans this just doesn't work. There'd be NEW standards and new criticisms of even the nicest of people.
It's just what happens.

Like the pecking order of chickens lol!

Someone always needs to be "at the top".

So instead of worrying about all those yucky people, because they'd be here regardless...
I just know that almost everyone out there IRL has no possible way to understand the complexity of my mind bec of the complexity of the PTSD.

A helpline Counsellor said the thing that made me realise this.
I said something like "Why is this so COMPLEX?" and I was talking about my life in general, esp Yvette's complex issues too.
She said it IS complex, furthered by the complexity of your PTSD and that of your children.

What a MAZE!

So I'm still in the jigsaw puzzle of life! LOL!

And because so many of us here are very deep thinkers INDEED lol.. I'm so glad to be in this maze with others.

I'm going to think of this maze like a gorgeous Old English or French garden maze made up of VERY tidy hedges (very unlike my own garden atm lol!) so we're stuck in here... there is a way out at the end but hey we can have FUN while we're here!

I know FOR SURE that I can't work some people out completely and that's OKAY. Who would I be trying to be anyway in attempting to do so? Nup. Not going there lol.

Back to the laundry lol!

WHAT FUN!

Love EM

[quirkywords]

Tony and sleepy

i have been read your exchanges on this interesting thread and have found them interesting..

You bring up many issues and both have kindness and understanding.

I find I have a problem at times understanding myself so I don’t expect others to . I find people say they understand how I feel and they don’t .

Thanks as I am learning so much from this thread.

[Guest909]

Hi Tony

Getting back to your very first post, did you mean to use the word "wont", or did you mean to say "won't". Wont and won't have very different meanings.

I'm going to assume that you meant to say "won't", a contraction of "will not".

To my mind, they won't (will not) understand why because they can't (cannot) or don't (do not) understand why. To say that someone can't or don't understand, calls for an understanding of another persons mind. The word won't gets around this assumption to some degree.

I think of won't as a more general form of can't and don't.

English is not my strong suite!

Cheers

[white knight]

Hi Mr Paul

Yes it should be won't (will not) as in they dont have a choice- they cant understand so they will not understand. So in many cases we are wasting our time pleading with them to understand. Which results in placing our energies into other more productive directions for example talking MI to those that do understand or make great effort to understand having got an idea of some of it.

Quirky, our scrambled minds cant be unscrambled. Eg that you have a hard time understanding yourself let alone others. But I dont think understanding yourself is mandatory. In some cases I can advise someone about bipolar moods and how to reduce them yet I have the same issues with mood swings. I am a jack of all trades master of none yet can teach young people how to do carpentry to a reasonable standard.

This part of the topic (not understanding ourselves) is one area of many that we can visit on the odd occasion to help ourselves develop to more understand ourselves, yet- I suggest- that any dwelling is counter productive. It's like watch grass grow! I'm a production type person, if I cannot produce a result I move on very quickly indeed.

A case in point is- doing gardening I have a huge mound of dirt I need to spread over my back yard. If I chip away at it I'll get it done in around 4 weeks, 3 hours a day. Nope, I'll leave it there and do other things. Then a guy drove up the street with a front end loader and a slab of beer later (5 minutes) he was done!! A bit of raking and presto.

With issues like not understanding ourselves, frustration with moods, slight anxiety etc I switch off trying because the mental effort is not worth the attempt to better myself. If there is a rotten part of my brain then it can stay rotten.

Over the last 10 years my study of humans has resulted in a bleak picture indeed. There is a large portion of humans that is deficient of caring, consideration, jealous, greed, manipulator, bullies and so forth. Some with these traits have undetected mental illness. Many having these traits wouldnt qualify as having mental illness but their traits are bad enough to have a negative effect on other people. The result of my own observations is that with me having insight with my MI, am caring, considerate, punctual etc...my illnesses is a blessing compared to some of these people.

How could they understand anyones mental illness if they are too inward bound with their own selfishness?

TonyWK

[Guest_1643]

Hi Tony,

I've experienced the bleak landscape in terms of selfishness and close-mindedness surrounding mental health - when I began openly discussing my mental health struggles 1 year ago, I can say that now, a year later, I have certainly lost a few friends because of this.
I actually wasted a lot of time trying to explain my position to these people and also offer them the analagy that mental health is like physical health - and people struggling with mental health are in the same predicament. They don't need advice, answers or to be "solved" - Just like if someone had a physical injury - you could leave that to the doctors and simply visit, chat and be a friend. But being given dangerous and hurtful advice by friends about my mental health (One told me not to go to hospital, that I looked fine so obviously didn't need to go to hospital - and would I consider a trip to Paris instead? Just rent my apartment and go to Paris! That could cure it, probably)

It was hurtful for me. But I realise now not everyone is like that and try and cut my losses.

[quirkywords]

Tony thanks for sharing youe experience.

I had a card I used to sell that said , Take my advice, I am not using it!

Yes I agree dwelling on things dies nor help but it is easy to fall into that trap.

[white knight]

There is a couple of my approx 300 poems that fit this topic. I write poetry to make sense of things. In thi case many years ago I was a member of a car club and a motorcycle club and found their tolerance for my issues zero. Yet physically disabled were treated like royalty.

LEGS OF SPOKE

How can I let them know?
when to dark exceeds the glow
when the sun hides behind the clouds
silence they hear- but I scream so loud.

Some stand beside a 6 foot hole
shake their heads and see its toll
they ask how he could have dropped
out of the circle- a forget me knot

Yet they seem to see clear and there is hope
when they sight a person with legs of spoke
A cripple girl pushing her chair
A man be depressed- there's no one there

"Storm in a tea cup" hurts so bad
like the cyber crow who remains so glad
keeps flying and in full flight
Carves his craft in the middle of the night

For some in power see it their way
even at the side of a 6 foot grave
shake their head and call out "why"
"Why on earth- he didnt have to die"

So kind some be- they reach out so true
smile then say "we want to meet you"
"bring along your vintage car and your smile
but leave at home whats behind your dial"...

So we laugh and dine and all is ok
leave at home come what may
if I be saddled with legs of spoke
they'd lift me around- bloody good bloke

But as my mind hurts so bad
cannot hide my feelings- mad?
Cant maintain "bloody good bloke"
Sometimes I wished...I had legs of spoke......
Tony WK

[Guest_1643]

Beautiful Tony. Thank you. Very true and honest, I appreciate this.

[Guest909]

Hi Tony

I've re-read your your first post, and I now understand what you were saying. Your closing paragraph (cited below) brought it home to me. I was the spouse (partner) at the other end of the MH/MI relationship.

"We should never get the feeling or not being loved mixed up with a lack of ability to help us. It’s not
that they wont understand-its more likely they cant understand so they don’t."

When I first met my wife of 30 years, I knew that she had MH problems related to a dysfunctional family upbringing; an abusive mother with severe MH problems and smothering father with similar problems.

Throughout the marriage I though I understood her issues; I thought I was helping her get on top of her childhood demons; I was wrong. I did not have the knowledge to recognise the narcissistic traits that were woven into the fabric of the marriage all so subtlety .

This sort of leads back to your closing paragraph (above). In my experience, it was not a matter of won't and don't; it was a matter of can't. Despite my best efforts, I could not help my ex.

Cheers