My estranged daughter turns 21 today

[Jstar49]

Hi everyone, I'm completely new here so Hello and thanks for being here.

It's my eldest daughter's 21st birthday today and I'm feeling pretty emotional about it. She hasn't spoken to me in 4 years, and refuses to have any contact with me, my husband or our 10 yr old daughter. I was a single mum with her, stayed around her dad's town in order for her to have a relationship with him but finally left when she was 8, to return up north and be closer to family. That's a whole other story.

She was impacted by my PND, for sure, and things have always been intense between us. Chaotic too. Interesting, but not exactly stable. My marriage when she was 10 was the start of some kind of normal, and now I've never been so content or mentally/emotionally stable, even tho I still need to take care of myself, not get overwhelmed, and watch myself re: taking on others opinions/judgements.

I worry about her but I tell myself maybe it's for the best, maybe she just needs time and space to discover who she is, and learn to forgive the mistakes of the past and accept herself and myself for who we are.

It's hard tho. Today I just would love to see her, see her smile at me, hug her and tell her how proud of her I am. And hear whatever she has to say.

Anyhow, thanks for listening. I know there's others out there with similar stories. It seems like the world just needs a course in family harmony! It's so sad for the kids that get caught up in it.

Cheers,

Jstar

[Jstar49]

Hey Hanna,

Thats pretty young to have lost your mum, just when you were growing your wings and getting out into the world. Although it sounds like it was a difficult relationship...

I think that ppl do whatever they have to to get by. I know my brother has at times been so angry about his r/ship with our dad, who is VERY controlling and not a good communicator, (which I guess is why he 'parented' the way he did, and he held a lot of resentment about the past. But when it came to him getting better, with his MH, he chose contact, because he was so alone otherwise. And if you don't learn the skills of self healing, then what choice do ppl have? They must have to repress. Pll are so busy in their lives too. I know my sister just doesn't have the time to sit with her own pain and anger and find out whats causing it. Its probably too much too, and she doesn't ask for help. So what else can she do other than project it onto me and live this life which protects what she has. It's so sad but I kinda understand. In my good moments!

I know nothing takes away the hurt of not having closeness with one's own family, but I have found that helping others has been a saving grace at times for me. Like when my sister wouldn't allow us/me to visit her with her new born child, there was a family in our church who had a newborn, and appreciated the support, and I got that lovely experience with them. There is so many ppl who are disconnected from their families, and hurting becos of it. I look around the BB forums and wish we could support each other more in our real time lives but I guess finding ways to connect with others in the community is the trick.

I've been thinking about somehow getting a support group going locally, but I don't know what would attract ppl to a group.

Maybe gardening!

Cheers

J*

[ecomama]

Hey J*

That's a really lovely but very sad post. I agree about the projection. Some siblings / family members "need" to put a wedge between us and their chosen ppl.

And perspective is a very interesting thing you brought up.
I think it's alot to do with dysfunctional attachment to parents.
In my case it was closer to Stockholm Syndrome but I'm NC as you know.

Yesterday my Counsellor said (sic) "So we know your mother had many questionable parenting practices..." I laughed so hard at her comment! That's the lowest modality description of my mother's parenting from a MH prof I've EVER heard!

omg perspective lol.

Years after my brother died my mother started a SIDS group for grieving parents. She co-facilitated the group with a Psychologist (who was our family friend). My mother had SO much grief and left the group each week with swollen eyes from crying and still crying most weeks.
Year after year my living brother and I would wait outside the room.

My brother hadn't died from SIDS but there was no other groups available so she started her own.

Tbh I think this only perpetuated her mousewheel of grief. She's never willingly sought any help for her own MH issues just shrouded her issues in helping others.

I don't think you'd be like this at all J* but you'd need support of your own for your own recovery.

Our local Women's Health Centres, Neighbourhood Centres and other centres born locally are available for ppl to start groups there.

I hope you'd find people with MH qualifications to co-facilitate though. It's important to have ppl who can moderate the group and keep some calm.

The Course I attended had 2 Counsellors running it. And after 6 sessions of thick heavy information on DV the last 2 sessions were focussed on healing and self-care.
Just FYI.

Love EM

[Jstar49]

Hey Em,

Yes definitely.

No neighbourhood houses here, sadly, (used to be, but closed down, for various reasons) something possible, a venue, 15 min away, but without support. Womens health is 30 mins, so locally, a bit limited.
Interesting cos yes, I'd want a MH prof there. Also cos I'm great at starting things but not so great with continueing lol! Maybe with all the MH funding being thrown around it's an option.

OMG thats just so so wrong what your mother did. I totally don't understand that. My sister is the opposite. When she lost her first child, she saw no-one (oh except for one visit with the local church 'counsellors'- no certificates or training of any kind grrr) and just got angry. With everyone.

Hmm dysfunctional attachment. Sounds about right.

Just so you know, I have enough training to know the pitfalls. We had to design a groupwork session/ series in our course last year. Last year! That means it's this year that I have to get a job now! Oh dear! I know i will enjoy it once I start but I so hate the job hunting process. It's very limited here anyway, and with my only volunteer exp for several years, and not much in this field I am apprehensive. Ignoring it for now.

How sad for you and your brother. Poor sad lost little kids. Don't go there, it'll make me cry. Oh why does the world have to be so effed up???

There's a tiny community garden, I'm wondering if something social could grow there. There's a lovely space within it thats also used by art groups. Possibilities.... I like to work with groups, so I'll see about gathering some women around for something. Nothing against you guys, I've just learnt that I work better with women. It would be nice to have it open to all tho. That healing between men and women is pure gold!

Thanks Em, for your thoughtful feedback.

J*

[ecomama]

Oh oops you focussed on my brother and I waiting outside the rooms year after year lol... that was a RELIEF for us! A relief our mother cried to other adults and that our psych friend was there to help her and all the other parents.

We were FINE.
If it wasn't us waiting outside THAT group. We waited outside a kajillion others.

We weren't lost, we had each other. I always made sure we took my brother's cars and I did his Home Reading with him lol! And did his Speech therapy program. And my mother always made sure we had food from these meetings.

It was a very positive thing my mother did for those many many other parents. They really needed that group and forged strong friendships. I'm actually really proud my mother did that.

So it's not as you think my dear friend. It was positive.

Just as YOU are positive.

You're thinking very sensibly about what's available locally there J*.
It only HELPS those community spaces survive if they're utilised!
And I'll support ANY THING going on in a Community Garden LOL!

I LOVE the concept of Men's Sheds, like I REALLY do.
Offering more than just a tool shed, but providing a space for men to make friends, help each other and plan fun outings together.
There's an ABC iView segment on them I loved.

I want a WOMEN'S SHED lol. There are things starting more "feminine" things here, since our WOW group imploded.

I started a group through LETS but that was a long time ago.

I love your thinking J*
EMxxxx

[Jstar49]

Oh relief!

I was seeing myself as quite sad and desperate tbh- nice to hear that your mum earned some brownie points there!

I agree, gotta use those spaces.

Nice that you and your bro had each other.

J*

[golden82]

Hi Hanna,

Thank you for sharing a bit of your story with Jstar and us all. It is sad, unfair and I feel sorry for you. I can relate as I have one sibling - a brother who is less than 2 years younger than me. We are in our mid-late 30s. We grew up together, through our parents divorcing, all the upheaval that went with that, changes of homes, several changes of schools etc. We always had each other. I would help him with homework, we would kick a ball around together, go get lollies at the shops etc. We fought of course as siblings do, but I thought we were close. Then turns out I was not invited to his wedding - 4yrs ago. His wife didn't want me there - wanted it to be her day. Well, of course it is her day.. but that doesn't mean you rip a family apart. Then from there I wasn't told about their son - my nephew - who will be 3 this year - and I have never been allowed to meet, and never will be. He doesn't know he has an aunty who loves him very much, despite never even being in the same room as him. I phoned my brother 18 months ago to ask about attending my nephews 1st bday - or 2nd bday - or when? I was told never - no contact - and for us to only communicate through Dad and Mum. Who I have nothing from anyway. It is horrible. I understand. And also the being shut-out and not even knowing where they are etc. It leaves you sad, empty, helpless. And as you say the judgment from others. Ppl just don't get it. I have even had counsellors on the helplines ask me - well what have you said or done to cause this? NOTHING. Sometimes, ppl such as your brothers, and my family, and what Jstar is going through with her daughter... sometimes ppl just do this for no valid reason. And we are left questioning why? I found I was blaming myself, but slowly learning to separate their bad behaviour from myself. I hope this makes sense. Thank you to you, Jstar and everyone sharing their stories.

[golden82]

Hi Mark,

I agree with Jstar - you're brother is a blockhead. You are so much better (kinder) - and deserve so much better!! You always show warmth to everyone on the forums. He is the one missing out.

[ecomama]

Hey golden and J* and Hanna (and myself) HUGS.

No one else really understands the feelings we have unless they've gone through this themselves.

And even amongst US all here who've lost their families or family members, there are a myriad of family dynamics that came into play.

I don't have the answers and all I can say is that I feel your pain.

Going NC with my mother was and IS still the most excruciatingly painful thing I ever had to do.
The Police stepped in and said they wouldn't help me again if I had anything to do with my mother. It was not the "magical" oh get rid of your mother and now you live in a land of rainbows and fairies.
Quite the opposite. It shattered my heart into pieces and I'm still horribly broken hearted over it all.

I said to my BF today (who doesn't understand - how could he?) that if Police hadn't told me that, I would have still have stayed in that relationship.
Maybe taken a low contact 3 month's time out but I KNOW I would have reached out to her again.

J* PLEASE don't take anything I say about my mother as projecting on to you.
She is not you, I am not your daughter.
It is NOTHING like the same. Just know that.

I have no idea what thought processes or "reasoning" others make about why they don't see me (my entire family went angry NC with me after police got involved) or each of you.

Sometimes things just DON'T make sense. Like AT ALL.

We're left feeling bereft and clueless and worse.

But if we can use ANY feedback from Counsellors who KNOW the situation and know YOU, then take it.

Golden it's WRONG to blame the victim.
That Counsellor clearly doesn't know YOU or the situation well enough.
Those comments hurt.

For me I know I was:
A. the victim being held hostage for hours on end and worse.
B. the family's scapegoat bec that's easier for them.
C. victim blamed and still am like "EM should be dealing with her mother, it's HER responsibility not ours" etc. Including my brother and daughter feeling this way. It came out in a Tsunami at me on the weekend, 25+y after my NC.

I ALWAYS cleaned up the messes my mother made.
But it's far too physically and psychologically dangerous for me to be in contact.

EACH of our situations is unique even though we have shared pain.

It's NOT fair, not kind and just not what we expected from our families.

Love and hugest hugs
EM

[Matchy69]

Hi golden thankyou for your kind words.It really means a lot that I have so much support from caring people on here like you.
Take care,
Mark

[Jstar49]

Oh Golden! That is so sad! To be separated from your brother and his family like that- how thoughtless and cruel of your sister -in-law. I just don’t understand ppl like that.
I guess I can understand my sibling and my d more, cos I blame myself at times, and think, I should have done blah blah, or not said blah blah. But really, if ppl are going to be cruel and not attempt healing and friendship, unless for their own selfish purposes, then that’s on them, not us.

I include all of us here in that, becos it does seem to be a recurring theme of MH survivors, the whole difficult family bit.
I’m glad we can share our stories and support one another and move past blaming ourselves.
thankyou Golden for sharing your story.
hugs

J*