My estranged daughter turns 21 today

[Jstar49]

Hi everyone, I'm completely new here so Hello and thanks for being here.

It's my eldest daughter's 21st birthday today and I'm feeling pretty emotional about it. She hasn't spoken to me in 4 years, and refuses to have any contact with me, my husband or our 10 yr old daughter. I was a single mum with her, stayed around her dad's town in order for her to have a relationship with him but finally left when she was 8, to return up north and be closer to family. That's a whole other story.

She was impacted by my PND, for sure, and things have always been intense between us. Chaotic too. Interesting, but not exactly stable. My marriage when she was 10 was the start of some kind of normal, and now I've never been so content or mentally/emotionally stable, even tho I still need to take care of myself, not get overwhelmed, and watch myself re: taking on others opinions/judgements.

I worry about her but I tell myself maybe it's for the best, maybe she just needs time and space to discover who she is, and learn to forgive the mistakes of the past and accept herself and myself for who we are.

It's hard tho. Today I just would love to see her, see her smile at me, hug her and tell her how proud of her I am. And hear whatever she has to say.

Anyhow, thanks for listening. I know there's others out there with similar stories. It seems like the world just needs a course in family harmony! It's so sad for the kids that get caught up in it.

Cheers,

Jstar

[ecomama]

golden82 said:oops sorry EM - I re-read my post and my poor spelling and way of writing made it sound like your family are narcs...I am so sorry - I meant your 'demon' ex you write about. Not your beautiful family/kids. Hugs to you EM - you are an inspiration 🙂

oh dear golden!! Never a need to apologise whatsoever lol... if I feel someone has got it wrong, I'll say what I need to. We can only express "so much" through print in any case.

YOU GOT IT RIGHT lol. HIGH FIVE!! hugs.

If you have a thread please tell us what it's called. J* has given you open permission to talk all you want here and ofcourse anyone can on my thread too.

We seem to have magnetised to each other in a sisterhood with the roses being Matchy & Tony WK! I don't mean to sound gender biased Mark & Tony, I can't think of a gender neutral "hood" that sounds acceptable. Hugs.

golden I was around 38 when I was ostracised from my foo, things worth less respect I put in lower case letters in an act to diminish their power psychologically for me.

They are little ppl. cowards. bullies. they stink lol.

Clearly you've studied the effects of abuse and the techniques abusers use.
Yes some are narcs, others are sociopaths and psychopaths.

PLEASE KNOW YOU CAN RECOVER!

I know that endlessly trying to speak the truth to these people, save whatever we can from these relationships is NOT worth our time, effort and cost to our MH.

I used to think I needed "closure" in person with ppl.
IDK how it happened but possibly through educating myself about these "types" made me simply shrug my shoulders and exit the r/ships. I had ALOT of Counselling for sure.

I think also for me, esp with my brother and extended family, I now respect their choice to go Low or No Contact.
It used to hurt a darned lot.

Now I'm more "meh". Whatevs. Even thinking YAY I don't have to put up with their bs, time wasting etc.

I HAVE created my own closure and I'm so glad for it too!

PUSHING INTO the sectors now available to me to explore in my life, even areas I've only thought and dreamt about, is part of healing for me.
When intrusive thoughts about these ppl interfered, I may jot a note in a one of my many HUGE notepads on them lol!!! And research later if I feel the need to.

Compartmentalising my mind helped immensely!

HERE I AM doing my thang.
Intrusive thought "Oh! Put them way over THERE" in the notepad.
Get back to me and my life and what I WANT TO DO.

Then you see the balance change.

EMxxxx

[ecomama]

Hey J*

You mentioned stuff about sister wanting m&ds attention.
HUGE motivation for some!

I remember years ago my brother made a faux pas right in front of me, in reflection it was indicative of HOW he actually felt about me all these years. He said he loved that my mother and I weren't talking bec now HE was "the favourite". My jaw dropped and I left and cried my eyes out.

HE WAS BOTH MINE AND MY mother's favourite!
WE raised him together!

He was my beautiful baby brother that God gave to me via adoption after God took my brother from us way way too early.

I treasured him.
I thought he was THE most beautiful baby God had ever created.

Fast forward whatevs.

I Googled "Idolising and demonising" just now and there's lots about it to read but maybe in relation to MH disorders or psychology may turn up more specific stuff IDK.

I saw your comment about anger. Are you afraid of anger?
Or feeling angry?

It's a valid and justified emotion. It's there for a reason in most people because of really upsetting situations.

I got angry for the first time with my children in ages tonight but it was built up from months of frustration and a pattern I was seeing bleedingly obvious in the way my children were treating me.
A fixer of ALL and anything.

One son drove into my garage door tonight.
Good one son.
GRRRR.

I said "I've had enough of bailing EVERYONE out when they do shyte!"
When I ask for help to do something, even small things, I get ignored.

I've been super patient for the longest time and I've had enough.

My anger is suitably justified.

I didn't yell or scream.
Just spelt it out. Now it's done.

demon mil made me angry Christmas eve with that stupid letter lol... when I feel angry it's for a reason and I'm sure you are just the same.

It's warranted!
Validated.
I think Necessary, so that you can SEE what's wrong. Maybe after a little diffusing time ofcourse!

I put the things in 2 camps.
Camp 1 - things I can do something about ie within my control and influence.
Camp 2 - things outside my control.

You'll read Covey saying to put ALL things in concentric circles.
Camp 1 is in the centre, maybe things like brushing your teeth lol INSIDE YOUR CONTROL and influence.

He says the MORE you focus on what's within your control and influence then the wider THAT circle becomes.
Quite often things that were once OUTSIDE your control and influence begin to move into that first circle.

I think this absolutely DOES happen.

Love EM

[Hanna3]

Hello J,

Please excuse me for hopping onto your thread here. I know how disrupting it can be when someone comes in on a conversation you are having. It's just that I noticed on Blue's thread about having problems with siblings in your family of origin. My two brothers cut me off long ago (I am the youngest of three, the only daughter). It's incredibly distressing to be cut off by your siblings. Both our parents are long dead.

If this is the sort of problem you are talking about here.. they don't tell me where they live and I have no contact with both my older brothers, nor my two nieces. We definitely had a narcissistic mother. I live alone, still single, early 60s. Just wondered if anyone can relate to being disowned by brothers/sisters and how they manage it...

Please excuse me again for coming by... thank you.

[Jstar49]

Hi Hanna,

It's nice that you dropped by 🙂

Thats really sad about your siblings, and really sad that you have no contact with your nieces.

I met an estranged aunt a few years ago-it was like filling in a missing piece of the puzzle! I finally found someone in my family who was like me! Family is so important for many reasons like these and I find it so sad when it gets effed up.

I have contact with 2 out of 3 siblings, altho it's pretty minimal. My sister has been very on again off again. She's off atm. Probably a good thing tbh except that our kids don't get to see each other. I'm working on detachment with that at present as there is not much I can do about it. Hence I am erecting a brick wall, and she's on the other side of it. How do you cope?

Thanks for commenting, I appreciate the input,

Cheers,

J*

[Hanna3]

Hi J*

Thanks for replying, it's good that you have contact with a couple of your siblings. My two older brothers (older by 6-7 years) do not let me know where they live (I only know the state) or their addresses - I have a mobile phone number for the younger one only. It's incredibly hurtful as their younger sister. I can only think it's because our parents were so abusive that it separated us - it would have been too threatening to admit to each other that our parents were so bad. I guess I am singled out because I am so much younger, they were a year apart so grew up closer to each other.

The thing I find hardest is other people's reactions - you really can't tell them as they find it uncomfortable and it feels like a reflection of what kind of person I must be to be disowned by my brothers... it really isn't OK to tell people your family is estranged. I guess I keep quiet about it, which makes me feel even more isolated.

There are a very few select people that know about it - friends I can rely on. But it does make you feel like there's something wrong with yourself...

Do you know what caused the rift in your family? I suspect it's more common than we know because people tend to keep quiet about it, like I do.

Again thank you for replying to me. Cheers.

[Jstar49]

Hi Hanna,

Wow thats pretty extreme. Was it lonely growing up with your brothers so much older than you?

It sounds similar to what is happening for me with my eldest daughter, in that she doesn't want me to know where she lives etc. Altho it's not far away, so I know. But am aware she doesn't welcome me visiting so that is sad.

i find it surprising that if your parents were abusive it doesn't make you all closer. Do you think you are more open about it than they want to be? Or do you think maybe they had a different time of it? I know I got closer with my brother when he was more in agreement with me about our parents. But when he is close to them, or my sister, he drops out of contact. Its as if he feels he has to take sides. I have learnt to be ok with who I am, on my own with my own friends and small family, or else it tears me apart inside. That shame you mention in talking about it with others- yes I feel that too. As if there's something wrong with me. Alright I'm not perfect, and I have been openly angry over the years,(which isn't really ok in my family-better to suppress it blerghh!) but there's other stuff going on for them. I have done more study and self development since my 20's, and worked on healing from his physical abuse/punishment, and the verbal taunting and putdowns he and my brother used as a means of 'keeping me in my place' so to speak. So yes, I am angry about it.

My sister, btw, had a totally different upbringing than me, and got the softer side of dads nature. She was never physically punished as a kid.

I just returned a message to my mum after NYE, with a polite enquiry about their holidays. When she replied she said how lovely their time has been camping with my sister and her kids. I am furious at her lack of tact. This is what happens when I'm in contact with mum. Always these little barbs, never anything to include us or make me feel welcome. (I'm not welcome anyway becos it's my sisters campsite, but mum doesn't even question how wrong that is). So angry right now! Determined not to reply tho cos it just makes things worse. This is how my New Year is beginning! GRRRRR! Just glad i had some time away visiting with a close friend, and have heaps to do here at home.

I thought it would get better as we got older and more mature, perhaps we'd start appreciating each other more. But it's getting worse.

Thankyou for sharing some of your story Hanna,

Cheers,

J*

[CalmCat]

Hi Jstar49,

Thank you for sharing such personal family situations.

I read your messages/story from the start; if you'd like to go to the wedding and make a mend no matter what the issues are, buy her some flowers and take them to her door. Surprise her, show her the love!

The more you give the more you'll receive!

Regards,

D

[Jstar49]

Hi D,

Thanks for the feedback. Feeling a bit weary of giving giving giving atm, but a friend said a similar thing with turning up at her door with a housewarming gift and new beginnings on the agenda. So I'll see. I didn't know where she lived until recently.

Not sure if it will be possible to turn up at the wedding, as I will have to know where it is, and when.

Do you have children?

Have you ever been rejected by them?

Cheers,

J*

[Jstar49]

Hi Em,

There was so much in your post to consider and mull over, and I look forward to reading the Covey book.

It reminds me of the serenity prayer.

Anger. Hmm. WIP mostly, but I am angry atm so I'll consider it in light of how I'm feeling. I'm a bit scared of what I'll do with it, and whether I can respond appropriately. I think I find it hard when I can't be angry with the person 'causing' the emotion. Either it's not productive and useful, or else it's not safe. I'm a 'nice person'... except when I'm not lol!! I think this causes me to be more forgiving and accepting than otherwise. Feel like I'm at my limit with that tho tbh.

As it sounds like you may be! Isn't it interesting how a mothers anger often motivates appropriate behaviour in her children! I've had this talk with so many mums, that the kids only listen when we do our block. I guess the trick is to catch the anger before it boils over, and use it in a more controlled way to motivate change. To recognise it earlier, and to figure out how you want the situation to be different.

In my suituation with my mum and sister, I feel helpless to change the situation, so my present anger is a frustrating and useless thing. I have attempted to use it for change so many times but it's just gotten sticky and not been productive. I think this time my lesson may be to use it to shut my borders. Difficult when ppl are telling me to give and make amends with my eldest D. It's so entangled with each other. I keep saying I just want to pull the covers. Maybe I really need to. She has shown me so clearly she wants nothing from me. I feel I am just bashing my head against a brick wall persisting in being loving and open. I'm bleeding to death and nobody cares.

My friend says I could visit (now I know where she lives) and bring her a housewarming gift. I've sent bday, Christmas, and now housewarming......??? So not sure.

You guys care maybe.

Thankyou.

J*

[Hanna3]

Hi J*

Wow your Mum giving you barbs like that sounds like how my Mum used to be (she died when I was 20) and how my younger brother was whenever he spoke to me - always making me know he felt I was useless/hopeless/out of things etc.

I'll reply more when I have more time than I have at the moment (running late) but I would have thought abusive parents would bring us more together too... but you're spot on, my younger brother denies any of the abuse ever happened and says I imagine things.. he's terribly damaged and has obviously repressed it all - my other brother, the oldest one, I dont know, I haven't spoken or seen him in about 20 years now.. and don't know where he is - somewhere in Qld... and my nieces are his children, but I don't know where they are. I'm single, no children, and would have loved to be a doting auntie for them. Sad. I don't think my brothers want to remember or think about it.

Thanks for sharing your story - we feel the same way about telling people about it - just a couple of close friends know with me. I've lived alone for a long time so I am used to it...

Chat later and thank you for replying...