Marriage breakup + kids

[dl23]

Hi

So my wife and I met in high school and have been together for 24 years, married for 14 years. Over the past 8 years or so (after second child, now 😎 was born, we have had some ups and downs. I would just sometimes have a go at her about random stuff; money, clothes or food. Then she would try and talk to me and I was too pigheaded and wouldn't really listen.

Now the time has come where she has had enough and wants to sell our new and amazing house, separate into smaller houses/units and rent. We share the custody of our two kids. I am really scared about telling the kids and don't think I can be there for that process. They will be devastated.

I have been trying to say sorry to my wife via emails, text, chatting, video montages and poems but she tells me to stop and that she doesn't love me anymore. She said as I keep hassling her about getting back together, she doesn't even like me and the thought of talking to me or seeing me makes her physically ill. She also said that because I am making her angry, the shared custody will be so much harder.

I have been trying to show her over the past few weeks the new me. I have been calm, positive (as best I can in this situation) and more composed. I would sometimes shout at the kids for being silly but now I use a calm voice always (even when they test my patience).

I haven't been sleeping much and not eating hardly at all for 5 days (lost 4.5kg), due to being nauseous and anxious.

We have just communicated over email and she doesn't even want me to talk to her anymore or make dinner or hot drinks. I responded with I would like to keep doing it. I told her I still love her and apologise a lot for making her angry, when that is not my intention.

I am really scared of not being with her anymore and not living her. I love her so much, even when she verbally attacks me and says she doesn't love me anymore.

I can't rely on my parents as they are away and my wife and my parents never really got along. They kind of caused a lot of the tension and some of the reasons we fought.

How am I going to get through this?

[Guest909]

Hi dl

Good to hear from you; I see that little has changed.

Try and stay focused on what has to be done; don't get sucked into petty bickering. Sometimes the best action is no action - 180, gray rock, and all that.

In regard to the trust account, I don't think it really matters if the agent or conveyancer holds the money in trust. In NSW, the conveyancer holds the money; it may be different in WA. At the end of the day, it does not matter who holds the money, as long as it is in trust and requires two signatures to release it. Just for the record, you will need a conveyancer; your wife just doesn't know it yet.

If you are having trouble arriving at a parenting plan, it might be best to delay the sale of the house until you have all agreements in place. The decision to sell now or later is up to you. Just remember, parenting plans are not written in stone unless they are a part of court orders. Even then, they can be changed. I would take EM's advice on parenting plans.

Hold the course; nothing has changed.

Thar be dragons ahead (pirate speak)

[dl23]

Hi All

So I sent my response to her and I had changed to a 180 style.email. No taking the bait. Just like a business transaction.

So I got a response on the same morning. She is accusing me of emotional and physical abuse (which is rubbish as I never touched her and she thinks because the marriage broke down and it's "all" my fault, that I abused her) and that it's concerning I'm requesting 50/50 care. She also said I should be lucky I am getting 3 days out of 7 days each week and if I was given anything less, I would hurt the boys. Seriously, she is starting to make stuff up. And she said I had issues hence the reason I am apparently only being given 3 days by her. I have no issues. Oh and she said I should be thankful for getting 3 days. And that no court would agree to giving me 50/50 given that so called emotional and physical abuse I have inflicted. She has inflicted all that abuse over email for 6 months. I went to a psych for maybe 3 or 4 sessions. That doesn't mean I have issues. I was in shock/denial for a while.

I said in my response before hers that trust was one of the factors I wouldn't sell the house straight away. She asked how does trust stop us from selling the house. I thought that was pretty obvious. And she also said that family law doesn't state that you can't sell the house. She also said we can't live in the same house for 18 months to sort parenting requirements out. She finished off saying " agree to sell the house".

I also said I would organise my own real estate agent to come and look at the house. She asked why organise a different one and why not meet the same so that we have both met him.

I want out so badly but how can you sell and move out of a house when you can't agree on shared custody and a parenting plan? Why is she saying this, it doesnt make sense

Thanks dl23

[Guest909]

Hi dl

Just ignore the tantrums if you can. Your wife is trying to provoke you; don't fall for it.

When my wife took legal advice, I got a similar list of accusations. Her lawyer accused me of, "financially abuse", "sexually abusive" and "physically abusive"; the list goes on. Her lawyer threatened me with a DVO on a number of occasions. In the end, it all amounted to naught. The accusations you are getting are a play straight out of the dodgy lawyer's handbook of dirty tricks. Some inexperienced lawyers think that accusation like this are helpful; they are not.

That being said, be very careful about what you say and do. I would suggest the less communication the better. Some spouses will even make false claims of child abuse; be prepared for the unthinkable.

In regard to parenting, leave all debate to mediation. You wife can say whatever she wants; it's all rubbish, and you know it.

The sale of the house is up to you, now or later, it does not really matter.

Stay the course and keep your "cool".

Paul

[dl23]

Hi Mr Paul

Yeah it sounds similar to when she made empty threats about going to court to force the sale of the house (I remember her saying "and yes I can do that". Nothing happened. Empty threat).

I just can't see how someone can be like this. Fair enough, have a go at me but when she brings the kids into it and claims I could hurt them, that is plain nasty. How can someone you know for so long and you have children with, be so disgusting? Speaks volumes of the 'hidden' person I was married too.

My lawyer said to see what happens with mediation for parenting. I still don't understand how you can sell and move out of a house without having a parenting plan in place? If you can't agree, then really you can't sell the house, as 'who' decides what for the kids.

I really need like to hear EM's advice on this.

I have calmed down and will edit my heated response from earlier in the day. 180 all the way.

Thanks

dl23

[ecomama]

OK I'll make a cuppa lol... oh dear. Brb.

Hi dl23

I'm not sure exactly what you'd like my opinion on but I'd hazard a guess at the pickle you see yourself in re: pressure to sell the house (even from inside yourself which is totally understandable) and not having a parenting plan in place (which remember is NOT worth the paper it's written on UNLESS you convert them into Court Orders).

I know you explained WHY you want that configuration of time for the boys but I'd have to agree with exW on this... I don't see this working for the boys. I've said this before.

I'd re-think this.
I'd even offer a week about. 1 week each over the 2,2,5,5 thing.
Too much movement for them.

And within that offer of "flexibility" be very careful about what you say there (I can explain later).
Even the flexible stuff needs to be written VERY clearly into the orders.
I would do nothing that requires flexibility tbh.

SO if I were YOU I would:
* be VERY clear ie "I will agree to selling the house once our Parenting Plan is converted into Court Orders."
* NOT sell the house or even put it on the market before then.
* realise that you will have NO CONTROL whatsoever if the house is sold and she leaves with the kids. NONE. Unless you apply to FLC and we know this is what you need to avoid if at all possible.
* know that exW is using many words / threats to manipulate you.
* know that unless you follow ONE type of "due process" that, indeed, you will be left with debts that should be SHARED. Something I saw from the very beginning here.

Sure exW will be getting legal advice. ABSOLUTELY some of this advice is unbelievable.
These ppl feed this toxicity to their clients and create what ISN'T there.
Result = acrimonious divorce that was completely unnecessary. (I had divorced with children before with no nothing but a simple working it out between us then FINITO).

The accusations also happened to me too BIG time, like REALLY BIG TIME.
And the worst things about me to my children.

The thing was?
He only wanted them a "bit" LOL!

The fact exW is allowing you to see the kids / have them / oh and take them all over for sports she never attends or hasn't FLED yet because of all this is one huge void in her "case".
Ignore.
JUST IGNORE these threats.

Get a FIRM grasp on what you will do when, my example above.
Then STICK TO IT.

Never waiver.

You've got this.

EM

[dl23]

Hi EM

Hope all is well at your end.

So basically what I would like to happen is we agree on a plan next week and from what my lawyer told me, it takes 4-6 weeks for the turn around for the consent orders from the courts. In the mean time, while this is happening, we put the house on the market (ideally next week). So I ask, if the plan is sent away to the courts for conversion to consent orders, is it safe to put the house on the market in the mean time?

With regards to the 1 week each roster each you mentioned, it won't work for our situation. I can't do school pickups every 2nd Wed due to after work compulsory meetings and every Thursday is early school close for one of my kids. Due to my job, I can't up and leave, whereas exW can, so she picks them up.

This is the reason that on both our rosters, I have them Mon/Tues night and she has them Wed/Thurs night. The issue is she wants more than 50%, due to her saying "they need their mother" and for the false claims and accusations I mentioned above she said. And she also wants to split the weekend, which I don't see it benefiting anyone but her. It certainly doesn't benefit the boys where 1 parent would only ever take 1 kid to a Saturday sport and 1 parent would only ever take the 2 kids to Sunday sports (I know the other parent can spectate but it's not the same as taking them there). And the fact it benefits the kids having a whole weekend with a parent to do things together or go away.

So I will respond again this morning with: my position stands and if we can't agree on a roster in mediation, then we will need to collect our participation certificate and go to court or lawyers.

I know she really wants to get out, so do I. She can take an extra day in the fortnight for the kids, just so we can get this thing moving.

Thanks

dl23

[Guest909]

"I just can't see how someone can be like this."

They do this for two main reason:

• To "game" the FL system to justify irrational actions, and/or
• Because they have a strong belief that they are "entitled" to more

"She also said I should be lucky I am getting 3 days out of 7 days each week and if I was given anything less, I would hurt the boys."

Your wife is using the boys as pawns to get what she wants. If this accusation escalate any further, seek immediate legal advice outside of mediation. If this type of accusation gets out of hand, that can impact on your parenting plan and take years to put right. This is the one threat from your wife that you should take seriously.

The sale of the house is really up to you. There are pros and cons to sell now or sell later. You have to work out what is best for you and the boys.

If you do sell now, EM is on the money. Your will most likely lose access to the boys until a parenting plan is in place. That could take years of expensive litigation through the court.

In the meantime, keep communication to a minimum - the boys and mediation only, if possible. Remember, anything you put down on paper can be used as evidence if mediation fails.

Hold the course!

[dl23]

Hi Mr Paul

She is definitely being nasty and malicious.

So I got a response instantly from her this morning (shes working but looks like shes constantly checking her email).

I basically said that if we can't agree on a parenting plan at mediation, then we may need to sort it out in court or with lawyers.

She responded saying she can't wait to spend 100k in court, when the outcome will be that she gets them for more time.

Wow!!!

Then she said I don't know how you think we'll be able to afford to pay for our lawyers when you won't sell our house.

It's like she backtracked on going to spend 100k in court to not being able to afford lawyers.

Sounds like desperation like previous legal threats she threatened with forced house sale.

I am no longer commenting or responding to her. Mediation is next week. Will leave it for that.

Thanks

dl23

[Guest909]

This is why you should limit communication to the boys and mediation only. Anything you say will only inflame a bad situation.

The mediator will help you arrive at a parenting plan; use that to your advantage. If it takes a week or 6 months, so be it. The only other alternative is court, and that will take years. You don't want to go to court unless absolutely necessary.

Given your wife's attitude, it might be best sell the house after you have parenting orders (court orders) in the bag. The house is the only thing that will keep your wife at the negotiation (mediation) table. Once the house sells, she will probable disappear with the boys unless you have a plan in place.

Let's hope that an agreement can be reached at mediation next week; break a leg.

Stay the course; it is the only course of action outside of court.

Cheers

[ecomama]

HI dl

"So I ask, if the plan is sent away to the courts for conversion to consent orders, is it safe to put the house on the market in the mean time?"

You need to:
A) ask a lawyer and
B) phone the Federal Circuit Court / Family Law Court ask about this. I doubt the Court will answer this so maybe A) is your only option.

Nothing's "safe".

It's just about getting as MUCH legal info as you can and navigating a path forward.
The path with LEAST risk to your access to the boys AND to a rightful dispersion of the proceeds from the house meaning esp PAYING those debts off in your sole name.

I COMPLETELY agree with Mr Paul and hence my tack for the path forward.... when he said "The house is the only thing that will keep your wife at the negotiation (mediation) table."

Remember a Parenting Plan is NOTHING until it's converted into Consent Orders.
BOTH parties need to sign these.

Consent Orders are the ONLY thing that will get you help if she withholds the children.
Police can intervene.

They won't do a dot with a Parenting Plan. They'll just tell you to apply to the Family Court.

As I said before and I'll say it again... you should know this from your teaching degree lol...
I would say "Once we have Consent Orders for the boys THEN I will agree to sell the house".

There's no abuse in this.

THIS is the safest way forward.

EM