How do you live with someone who is in denial?

[Maxandrews]

My last posts here, again it feels like dejavu almost 10 years later. 

my wife and I have 2 children and her mental condition seems to worsen year on year. She is very oblivious to her words and actions. Eg today I walk away from an argument and she follows me to yell and swear and then tells me I stress out my son. She had her own weird reality where she can sit there talk filth to me in a calm voice yet when I raise my voice im stressing out my son. I’ve blocked her on the phone as when I leave she starts the verbal and written abuse. Then starts sending abusive emails when she can’t connect over the phone or WhatsApp lol where there’s a will there’s a way. 

there doesn’t seem to be an appropriate time to convince her she isn’t thinking or acting right and it’s an endless cycle. 

how do you live and cope with someone in denial but so desperately needing help. Destroying her family around d her in the meantime. Having 2 children at  5 months old  and 2 years old makes it impossible for me to leave. 

[white knight]

Hi, welcome

I understand. I've previously had a 10 year relationship that included much swearing by her regardless of many pleas for her to not do so. Each time it occurred while she'd been drinking and after 10 years it ended. I never could stop her swearing so I'm afraid you might not either. But words are only words and although unacceptable it is how many people act now. I'm afraid it is something you might have to accept. Your children will accept it, in the scheme of perfect parenting, kids adapt better than us.

I have one suggestion- that you organise a relationship counsellor and if she refuses to attend with you, then attend yourself. She has the right not to attend as you have the right not to inform her of private conversations you have with that therapist of which she can attend if she desires to know. The counsellor can put things into perspective, offer solutions and help out in ways you might not have considered.

The other thing I'd like to mention is verbal abuse can come in many forms so its important that you dont cross your boundaries of volume. I understand your frustration but what you want to say  can be said at a low volume, raising your voice will only lead to inflammation of the situation. It then isnt what you are saying that is read by her but the volume becomes the topic and for her- justification to pursue you further. Boith of you have an obligation to calm the waters, but individually you can only give input to that alone.

With her trying to connect to you following a confrontation, its her way of release, at that point she cant move on from the incident, likely doesnt feel she is being treated fairly and has built up emotions- we all deal with anger differently. . Again better to let her let off her steam than blocking as blocking will inflame. Let the phone ring, let her send whatever, if you respond in ways that deescalate then you'll have better chance of reconciliation. This can come in just a few words like "I love you let's calm down" or "want a coffee" It doesnt mean you are wrong, thats important for me to point out, its about giving her the platform to express.... taking the high road, leading by example. These simple remedies can go on for some years when eventually her behaviour of hounding you may pass.  

On the flip side denial is a problem. Remedies can come in such simple ways. Whenever my wife and I argued her voice volume rose little by little. I was taught to ask her to turn the volume down from a 8 to a 5 out of 10. It worked, better that than "stop yelling".... "I'm not yelling" she'd yell back!. 

The final point I'd like to make is the ages of your children, its a time when stress of baby management takes a huge toll, parents are often not themselves and their partner is the only one they can release their frustrations on.  Her hormones and other female issues post birth aren't settled either.

I do have a very relevant post below that worked for us many years ago until we learned how to deescalate naturally. If you both can commit to the process that post offers then you might short circuit these conflicts. If you include her in that plan of time out until you both have relaxed then you're both winning. Many years on and we no longer need to use this process. Now I say "I'll go to the shed and we'll have coffee in 30 minutes"

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/relationship-and-family-issues/relationship-strife-the-peace-pip...

I hope that works. Repost anytime

TonyWK

[Maxandrews]

Thanks Tony. There’s a lot of good advice. Honestly, the one factor though is that she is undiagnosed depressed high anxiety, don’t know what else but I can speculate. I dont say this lightly. The family history, all her siblings, aunts, multiple cousins and uncles, all have mental disorders (schizophrenia and depression is very common in the family). 

why I say this, all your suggestions work on someone that you can reason with. As an example, the counsellor. I always suggest it. Her paranoia plays up saying she doesn’t want to air dirty laundry and we don’t need someone to tell us what to do. Fair enough. I have multiple times tried to arrange for myself alone, and this led to unbearable fights. 

im not always the model husband and of late I’m not myself. But when we fight, it’s usually not even fighting for the point at hand. It’s about all her unresolved issues. 

Again I’m not trying to dismiss everything and make it hopeless, but the root cause of all our issues is that my wife hasn’t dealt with her issues so anything that comes up between us is unbearable.

[therising]

Hi Max

It sounds like you're all facing an incredibly challenging time as a family and I feel deeply for you in regard to not only being at your wits end but also suffering in such stressful and potentially depressing ways.

Tony offers such brilliant advice and I get where you're coming from when it comes to reasonable advice. I learned a handful of years ago that you can't reason with an unreasonable person. They either can't see good reason or they flat out refuse to see it. To go to relationship guidance counseling alone is perfectly reasonable. You need a guide in order to navigate this part of your life and your marriage. You're all suffering without a guide or some form of guidance. I went to marriage counseling on my own years ago and it made a huge difference to me, personally. I learned a lot and it was exactly what I needed at the time. A guidance counselor can offer tips on how to navigate, while shedding light on what's not necessarily all that obvious to us.

The inner demons of depression and anxiety can definitely make life hell on earth not just for the person who experiences them first hand but also for those around that person. When I had both my kids (around a couple of decades ago) I was already in a long term depression. I found the stressors, depressing factors and many triggers that can come with the early stages of motherhood ramped the volume up in relation to my inner demons. To name a handful of those inner demons

• The harsh and brutal depressing inner critic that can sound like 'You're hopeless. If you weren't such a horrible mother this wouldn't be so difficult. And what kind of mother doesn't like her own kids?! Your kids would be better off without you. You're useless and pathetic'
• The intolerant maniac can sound like 'Why are you tolerating him (husband) hanging that towel like that? Say something. Why are you tolerating him not helping you do this and that? Say something. Why are you tolerating...' and on and on it can go in regard to every little thing
• The saboteur can sound like 'You shouldn't have to give reasons for why you think and feel the way you do. You shouldn't have to listen to his reasons either'. In other words, the saboteur can sabotage any constructive form of clear communication which can help resolve issues

The list of inner facets goes on.

Someone else's inner demons can prove to be formidable opponents. It's kinda like you're not dealing with that person, you dealing with the parts of them that are making life hell on earth. May sound strange but managing what triggers them not only turns the volume and frequency down on them (in regard to how loud they are and how frequently they come to life) but it also allows for more positive inner facets to begin coming to life. For example, if the harsh and brutal depressing inner critic absolutely thrives on sleep deprivation, difficulty breast feeding, no positive vision of the way forward etc etc, managing sleep, managing transitioning to bottle feeds and managing developing positive visions can help bring the mental strategist, the happy mother and the seer in a woman to life.

When it comes to the seer in you, if it's leading you to see the best way forward as speaking to a marriage guidance counselor trust it and go for it.