Questioning some things

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Those of you who know me know I have been bouncing from one rough life event to another for years, without really any time to take a breath in between. I can state well enough the things that have happened to me, but haven't had much energy to delve deeply into what those things have done to me. In the time off work since my partner had major surgery (yup, another fun crisis), I had time to start pulling at threads, to get a Mental Health Care Plan, see a psych and talk to a counsellor. As much as I always knew my life has been a steaming pile of crap, the threads I am pulling are connecting dots and giving rise to possible clarifications of events and what has arisen in their wake.

My childhood was severely neglectful. Mostly emotionally, but also in some physical ways. We kids didn't sleep in the (perfectly good) house, we slept in a caravan nearby - Mum cleaned up her and Dad's bedroom and the kitchen after the mouse plagues, but apparently our rooms weren't worth the effort. He carries on about her "unfit" parenting, but it's not like Dad did anything about it either. We were fed and clothed well enough. Never a lot of attention from either of them. I don't remember a single hug from either one during my childhood. Mum would immediately disinfect her hands if by some chance she came to touch one of us. Some years later, post parental divorce, Mum's settlement money ran out and we endured a brief stint without a home, a much longer (years) stint of inadequate food and no hot water.

I actually became pretty functional after moving out. Worked, studied, maintained a place on my own. Went through a couple of less than healthy relationships and endured with surprising resilience. Then came the last relationship. First two years, no major problems. Then bam, he's unfaithful. Enter ol' Blue's depression, that's the straw that breaks the camel's back. Damn fool remained in contact with him and we tried again at the relationship. To be fair, he didn't repeat that particular mistake. He tried hard to redeem himself and be a better partner. Until the ring was on the finger. Engagement in place, all effort fell away little by little. Dear gods did the neglect become overwhelmingly severe. I kind of got that there was a theme, but it's literally only now, years after breaking up with him, that I see why it was that straw that began my depression - just how closely what he did mirrored my parents' behaviour.

[ecomama]

Hey J*

Yeah wow, LOTS of shifting and learning happening there!

Not sure if you've watched Brene Brown's Netflix special yet?
I LOVE the way she uses information gathered from her research!
THEN puts in practical terms for us to use too.

Re: your sister's Boxing Day tantrum.
The MAGIC SENTENCE Brene uses in such situations is "the story I'm telling myself right now is..." then express how she feels etc.
I use this with BF & my kids now and it really works.
It's so non confrontational and non threatening, as long as we convey it calmly lol!

SO often we can be REALLY off the mark with what we're thinking about the situation.

Remember there's the Inflictor and Inflictee... one can be purging (because they're suffering), the other suffers. Hurt people hurt people.

But Brene also talks about reactions to "shame" and I think you're bang on the money there.

I am SO GLAD you're getting so much out of the 7 Habits, it's freaking amazing lol.

If you want to bring up ANY THING about the book on my thread, please do, not trying to hijack, poach or anything... I'll never get sick of talking about the man and his work!

Love EM

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey Tayla,

No worries. As for the bullying, it taught me to stand up for myself, so I guess the experience wasn't all bad. It stopped pretty quick when I pushed back. The underlying thing with bullying is cowardice - they want to see weakness and hurt, if they find themselves on the defensive they run away. It's pretty universal.

Thanks for sharing about your toxic "friend", that really helps me understand where you're coming from. Unfortunately when we're hearing a constantly negative voice, even when it is gone we can carry that into an internal dialogue, i.e. it becomes what we say to ourselves. You know the source of that voice, so that is a good starting place for dealing with it. If you hear her in your thoughts, challenge her. You know her to be a braggart and a liar and can call her out on that when her image appears in your mind. If she lied about, for instance, some great thing she's bragging about, does it not stand to reason it's also a lie that you're a failure? Tell her to take her lies elsewhere!

Blue.

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey EM,

Yep, plenty to talk about here.

You make a valid point, of course. That said, you may also note I have already treated myself as I treated you in similar circumstances, i.e. not following up on reading Chumplady after it turned out to be more triggering than helpful. I can give myself that consideration on some things, am less kind about others. For instance, it I unexpectedly react to something and feel hurt/sad, I become angry with myself for giving people in my past the power to make me feel that way. That rankles so bad with me, and I'm still trying to work out how to give myself permission to just feel crap for a bit about it and move on. Intellectually I know the resistance to those emotions is a huge part of what has perpetuated them. A fairly new thing in my understanding, so there is plenty of work to do in switching off the automatic responses cultivated over a lifetime.

Haha, yes, process your own words, EM, it's useful for you as well.

Knew you'd be happy I bought that book. I think I mentioned on the money thread that I also got Rich Dad, Poor Dad, by Robert T Kiyosaki. Haven't read much of either yet, but enough to see the theme in both that success has an awful lot to do with how we think about things. In both cases I'm seeing concepts I have come to on my own, but refined a bit and with some new information to chew over.

I'm guessing you eventually found the Families version of the book? I have a feeling the People one will have a bunch of transferrable information that doesn't have to apply solely to one's professional life. Sounds like you got plenty of use out of it in that capacity, though. Go you.

I'm glad Chumplady was helpful for you. I need a much more dispassionate format for processing stuff like that and don't have the energy to sift through the many emotive bits, but I can see the useful things you have picked up. I also have a very different experience with infidelity, not a serial cheater but someone who found out the hard way he wasn't the decent person he thought he was. There weren't the same tricks of trade involved, it wasn't a game of concealment or ongoing behaviour, he told me himself what he had done and took responsibility. Not that I'm defending him or what he did, but I wouldn't call it textbook.

I've a funny feeling "personality" will come up in a lot more people than we will see "character" in. Just a hunch. I did have a goosie at his YouTube video on ethics, and it really hit the nail on the head.

Blue.

[ecomama]

Hey Blue

I'm getting ready for work in 5 whole mins so a brief reply.

Yes I read you bought BOTH those books, GO YOU! lol... I think I have a whole Course of Rich Dad, Poor Dad in some form right near me in a container to store for the kids at any time. I really LIKED that book, excellent comparisons, which always help me.

My mother intuitively did the financial practices mentioned, probably not ALL but yeah she did so well after losing absolutely EVERYTHING in a house fire that ruined our home and all in it. Father had taken the Insurance off it without telling her, talk about character vs PERSONALITY lol.

Anyway p.son has absorbed alot. The other sons spoke with me about buying cars last night ... they save so well over the hols. Have around $3k each saved and asked me about the pros and cons of car loans LOL!!
I've never had one. They may borrow another $2 - $4k each from me, but I asked them to do the calculations online as to how much they'll END up paying for a loan.
I also have a saying I use, "it may be common, but it's not 'normal'..: mostly to do with other ppls behaviour lol, but I said last night for them to be "the exception" to what their friends are doing (leaving home, paying HUGE FREAKING rent & getting car loans).
We'll see what they do.

Yes, bought the Families one probably 5y later when I finally found it. It's beautiful. Same Habits but more to do with interpersonal relationships.

I LOVE the "deposits & withdrawals from emotional bank accounts", I found that very powerful.

Omg Yvette is a marvel (they ALL are!!) she's been reading alot about behaviour management / psychology in r/ships and said she noticed I do so many things her friend's parents DON'T do... I took that as a huge compliment!!
She's having a LAST day of School hols gathering with her friends here tomorrow.
I'm so happy she's putting herself out there again socially. Slowly.

I saw The Barefoot Investor for pretty cheap in Officeworks. Maybe Libraries have it, NOW THAT BOOK IS AWESOME!! He updates every year. SPECIFIC info on what TO do. Very prescriptive.
We can take or leave what we want ofcourse.

Yes I found Chumplady weeks after D Day here, so I WAS emotive lol! Oh as per usual I heard "there was only 1 (affair partner)" but that was a lie. Months of craziness, it made threats etc, it wouldn't LEAVE, so it was the most turmoil our family have ever been in, save for years of Courts from a year after for years and years.

Love EM

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey EM,

You do "brief" replies much like I do, haha.

I'll address your last point first, because I'm not in the best place for talking about infidelity & I'd like to get that out of the way. It's not surprising you were emotive. Me, I'm especially in need of dispassionate discourse when I'm in the thick of an emotional situation. I'm not sure if you're just expressing your experience or making comparisons re "there was only one". No evidence whatsoever of further dalliances with my ex. He was a dreadful liar and actually had a conscience, despite being a hopeless man-child. I'm sorry it was so hard to get your ex out of your life after all that. Admittedly mine left but was obsessing over trying to get me back for ages after. Even when he knew I was with someone else, it was all "If that doesn't work out, you know where to find me"... No thanks.

Thanks, I think both books are both good investments. Didn't know you'd read Rich Dad. Guess it's not surprising, given how savvy you are with money. I like the accessible style of it, good for pretty much anyone who is willing to learn.

Some positives about your mum, that's good (less so about your dad taking the insurance off...). My mum screwed things up royally with money. Made some pretty noteworthy errors myself along the way - at the point where I had debt collectors after me and needed a financial counsellor, I pulled myself up by the bootstraps and concluded I had to learn a lot better than my mother taught me. And I did. So much of it is second nature, now, and though it didn't go quite to plan, here I am on a piffling part-time income having at one point been a landlord. That's no common thing, I know that.

Your sons are doing well. Dunno about where you are, but $3K buys a good, reliable vehicle here. About 15-yrs-old, but I've had good cars at that price, without loans. I'll always say avoid loans wherever possible. Agreed, bugger what everyone else is doing. We're definitely in a society with unhealthy - even dangerous - spending habits, a mentality of have now, pay later. Rarely ends well.

Sounds like some good stuff in Families too, then. Nice that Yvette is educating herself too and seeing real-life examples (including seeing what you're doing right). Glad she's working out some social balance, too.

I had a quick look, seems Kmart and a few others have Barefoot Investor under $20, too. I'll keep that in mind. We can pick this up on the money thread, methinks.

Blue.

[ecomama]

Hey twice in one day will be a full flavoured rarity for me during the week! I'm savouring it lol.

OH NO meant no comparisons with each of our experiences of adultery. no way.
It's what demon said, 'only one affair' blerghhh... I replied "It only takes ONE", nothing matters after that. Liar liar pants a blazing.

Yes can pick up Barefoot on $$ thread, sure. Think I mentioned it there once.

Oh sure, there are SO MANY good things to say about my mother!
It's what kept me enmeshed for so long.
But there were worse things on the OPPOSITE end and that meant NC.

She was an exemplary tutor with managing money. After the house fire, she was heavily depressed. We lived in a shed. Then bit by bit she pushed herself. Saved and end up buying a house for $55k cash. We lived like true paupers but she did it. We were never allowed to use the word "proud", otherwise I would have told I was so proud of her!
Zero child support, no Govt rebates for child care etc. Amazing woman.

Alexa and I are much the same.
We're far too hard on ourselves and give all to the kids, but we're both trying to get "balance" there too. Alexa wants to buy a property with one highly motivated son this year and told all the others she would buy into property with them too lol (well she set herself up for THAT lol).
I will structure a Family Trust immediately.

It's a way to lock property down from "gold diggers".

We can only get absolute bombs of cars here for $3k. That's what the kids HAD and needed Cash for Cars to tow them away within 1y ugh.

Maybe that was ALL for the $$ thread! Oops! sorry.

The material point in each of our experiences of Property Ownership is that we MADE IT THROUGH and Lord knows IDK how when I think back.
We did it over again and that shows so much strength, resilience, resourcefulness and more I'm sure.

High five lol.

Love EM

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey EM,

Okay, gotcha. Completely agree, it only takes one. Even the concept of "only one" tells you how they just don't get it. Sorry, is one shot at ruining my trust and health, possibly losing my life to an STD, maybe having a kid running around out there from it not significant? When does it become significant? Five times? Twenty? Hell no! Your stance is correct - once is not acceptable.

Yeah, you have mentioned it there, I'm pretty sure.

I begin to understand your dilemma with your mother. It's hard to step back from someone when they do have redeeming characteristics. Ultimately it comes down to whether you can live with the consequences of the bad stuff, which were clearly dangerous to you. It's okay to make decisions based on self-preservation. That said, that's a pretty amazing effort, after losing everything. It takes strength of will and some good knowledge to bounce back so well from something like that, I'm glad you took her lessons on board with money.

Yes, balance is important. Remember looking after yourself ultimately creates more for you to give, so you're not just doing it for you, it's to the benefit of everyone around you. I raised my eyebrow at Alexa's willingness to buy property with her siblings. That's a risky move indeed. Family Trust is a much better idea. Money is money, but credit ratings can make all the difference to our options with using it, she doesn't want a sibling to default on payments and lose her credit rating. Maybe a way to lock property down from gold diggers, but it's a whole new rabbit hole, I think.

That's unfortunate. I think most states are a lot stricter on the age and condition of cars that can be registered than SA, so we have more wiggle room to buy fairly decent old cars. Regrettable that what they had for that price lasted so briefly. That really sucks.

I think it's fair to say that a lot of the topics we talk about meld together in places. Where this thread is concerned, money is hugely relevant. I can say my experience with Mum's money handling leaving us briefly homeless then with no hot water or stove for years was massively relevant to neglect and PTSD. As was my ex spending irresponsibly on the credit card, resulting in me slogging my guts out at work only to mop up his mess with the money I made. Never mind financial ruin time after time in ending relationships. Yeah we've made it through. Stays with you though, doesn't it? Both the scars and the lessons.

Blue.

[ecomama]

Hey Blue and everyone

Yeah the scars maybe too, I really try to push into every day I have. I hear you about the debts left behind (SNAP).
Once I completely accepted "I would never BE where I could've been (financially)" then that was done. After that comparing this with that outcome is of no use to me. Something like comparing myself to my school friends, which I DO NOT do.

I detach from all that.
Never have been a "look what the neighbours have" kind of person, so I put my "sliding doors" path ie where I COULD have been into the same bucket.
It's not useful.

Probably demonstrating Habit 1 "Be Proactive".
Which I am.

Actually I'm 100% supportive of Alexa buying property with each of the children. It's how so many ppl become wealthy ie in "syndicates". They ALL have very good ethics and morals. They definitely trust each other. Only 1 son is preparing himself to do that atm, they're all at school lol, so there's time. It's purely for investment purposes to begin with, so tenants will help pay mortgages. But they understand the taxation laws lol so if they plan to sell, then they'll live in it for a year before selling. Far lower taxes this way.

I was just saying to Alexa if she does it for one then she has to offer it to all! LOL! She said she planned to.

In fact this talk has supported a spurn in Yvette thinking about the future, which is AWESOME.

Yeah my mother. Well there's no dilemma at all now, hasn't been for decades. Early last year I pondered "remote" support, due to Alexa's distress over mother, but ditched that idea after MH consultation. Tbh any redeeming features she used to have are no longer there at all. She's completely lost her mind and likes it that way.

Her choice entirely.

Although I have stepped in with extended family trying to get Power of Attorney over mother's 'estate' but that's all disgusting money grubbing and I told them so DIRECTLY.
I also told them that I would contest any pursuance of this and they wouldn't want to fight with me in Court lol. Being mother's ONLY living biological child, I'd like to see them try.
They backed off.

I know stuff will come up in the future but no point in guessing what.
It could all go smoothly, that's the plan anyway!

EMxxxx

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey EM,

I understand that. I don't think much on where I could have been financially. I do get bloody angry about still copping heavy financial consequences for ever having been with the man-child in the first place. That is very present, not a "coulda, shoulda, woulda". As for comparing to school friends... nah, never been one to do that. Well, with curiosity, but not with envy.

I agree about keeping up with the Joneses, it's so pointless. Even as a kid, while the other unpopulars were wanting to be like the cool kids, I looked at the cool kids and thought "Why would I want to be an abusive little git that looks the same as all my friends and has to like sport?" Gimme my respectable character, self-directed look and Star Trek, any day.

Yep, you're definitely pro-active, as am I. We have that in our favour.

Okay, glad you feel confident about Alexa buying property with the other offspring. Hopefully they pay heed to your tax advice. Glad it's got Yvette thinking.

Ha, fair enough. You reminded me of an anecdote with that. I was eating chocolate buttons in class one day, and the teacher facetiously said "If you're going to eat in class, you'd better have some for everyone". Well, I did, and happily shared around my chocolate buttons, much to my teacher's chagrin. Hehe.

I understand where you're at with your mum. Though not in quite the same vein, I can say mine has completely given up on trying to make any sort of life for herself - just sits in her corner and wallows, blaming everyone else for her problems. So much for her lessons in personal responsibility. She only harms herself though, so having contact isn't much of a problem. Bloody hell she frustrates me, though. She's too intelligent for this crap, she should know better. But you can't make people take help.

That does sound like disgusting money grubbing, I don't blame you for stepping in. And I don't think anyone in their right mind would want to tangle with you in court, EM.

No-one knows the future, just gotta see what it brings, I guess.

On a side note, some intrusive thoughts hitting recently. Mother in law is a narc - not as destructive as some, but definitely a narc. Remembering some arguments, she tried pushing me out of seeing my partner after the surgery when visiting hours were so limited re covid, she (unsuccessfully) tried to take them all. Now she's all sweetness and light like nothing ever happened. Screw that, I'm so angry. Stuck with her in my life because she's his mother.

Blue.

[ecomama]

Yeah GOOD ON YOU being proactive.

Sure beats sitting in the corner wallowing lol.
My mother is NEVER home! She still thinks she can rescue the WHOLE of society. She can't sleep in her house anyway, she's hoarded herself out of it.

Her choice.

Oh dear Lord, a narc mother-in-law.... great.
Yes I can absolutely understand the intrusive thoughts about THOSE kind of manipulation comments. GRRRR.

She should NOT have done that to you or your partner at such a scary and deeply upsetting time!
No wonder the thoughts are intrusive. crikeys Blue.
The things I'm learning NOT to do as a m-i-l!!!

Last hospitilisation demon had which needed surgery, was shortly AFTER D Day, can you imagine??
demon got injured at work (there's alot more to this rancid story) BUT that night I'd planned to take the kids to the Carnival.
He'd been SO immeasurably abusive to them when I wasn't home (I found out later) and me.
I asked the kids if they wanted to visit demon in hospital (I actually said dad lol).

They said "No, let's go to the Carnival!" LOL! So I took them and we had a GREAT time. Sent demon pics just to be "nice" lol.

Next day in-Laws were in visiting at same time erghhh.
They TOLD me to get MY Brother to pick up demons car bec he would get huge parking fines bec wait for it "YOU'RE his wife".
Hmm. I said No. You take the car and HIM home to recuperate. I've parented it for far too long and we're NOT Married in ANY sense any more, so I'm not it's wife.
Fines demon gets are his problem.

I left.

Omg we were only home 5 mins and the in-Laws turned up with demons car and said "We don't want him at our house".
LOL.

They actually picked it up and drove it to my house from the hospital a week later.

NOT having demon in our lives was the happiest part of my marriage lol!
TAUGHT ME AND THE KIDS ALOT.
This was a game changer for us all.

Get angry sure, then "get even" lol... my type of 'getting even' is Imagining the person as a CARICATURE lol!
Those ppl are all clowns running their own veritable Circus.

Boundaries, boundaries, upholding boundaries, boundaries.

"All sweetness" pfft. You coined her now. I don't know why she bothers with that facade lol.

Love EM