Questioning some things

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Those of you who know me know I have been bouncing from one rough life event to another for years, without really any time to take a breath in between. I can state well enough the things that have happened to me, but haven't had much energy to delve deeply into what those things have done to me. In the time off work since my partner had major surgery (yup, another fun crisis), I had time to start pulling at threads, to get a Mental Health Care Plan, see a psych and talk to a counsellor. As much as I always knew my life has been a steaming pile of crap, the threads I am pulling are connecting dots and giving rise to possible clarifications of events and what has arisen in their wake.

My childhood was severely neglectful. Mostly emotionally, but also in some physical ways. We kids didn't sleep in the (perfectly good) house, we slept in a caravan nearby - Mum cleaned up her and Dad's bedroom and the kitchen after the mouse plagues, but apparently our rooms weren't worth the effort. He carries on about her "unfit" parenting, but it's not like Dad did anything about it either. We were fed and clothed well enough. Never a lot of attention from either of them. I don't remember a single hug from either one during my childhood. Mum would immediately disinfect her hands if by some chance she came to touch one of us. Some years later, post parental divorce, Mum's settlement money ran out and we endured a brief stint without a home, a much longer (years) stint of inadequate food and no hot water.

I actually became pretty functional after moving out. Worked, studied, maintained a place on my own. Went through a couple of less than healthy relationships and endured with surprising resilience. Then came the last relationship. First two years, no major problems. Then bam, he's unfaithful. Enter ol' Blue's depression, that's the straw that breaks the camel's back. Damn fool remained in contact with him and we tried again at the relationship. To be fair, he didn't repeat that particular mistake. He tried hard to redeem himself and be a better partner. Until the ring was on the finger. Engagement in place, all effort fell away little by little. Dear gods did the neglect become overwhelmingly severe. I kind of got that there was a theme, but it's literally only now, years after breaking up with him, that I see why it was that straw that began my depression - just how closely what he did mirrored my parents' behaviour.

[Jstar49]

Hi Blue,

So helpful what you wrote there to Golden. I can id some of my own/ others issues in it, altho it's not quite sinking in. I too have been trained to only look for my own responsibility in situations, as I think we've mentioned before. It's a recent thing to be able to tease out what is mine, and what is others. And I still tend to think that something I do or say can make a difference to someone else's behaviour. Like, I id'd that my sis may have been feeling vulnerable as she turned up to Boxing Day lunch, hence why she was so angry with me. Also maybe some shame (buried) about the way she acts. So instead of me taking that as a msg to think'hey, she's not a safe person to be with atm cos she's angry and feeling ashamed and likely to lash out' I instead think "I can fix this by telling her I love her and support her". Now they say that the definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over and thinking you'll get a different response- so I have only one conclusion...I must be crazy! Absolutely bonkers! I STILL think that if I am just nice enough, everything will be fine!

Ahh lol. Sinking in !

So, Coveys paradigm, which I referred to, is really about a maturity continuum.

Dependence is the paradigm of you- you take care of me, I blame you...etc

Independence is the paradigm of I- I can do it, I am responsible, I can choose

Interdependence is the paradigm of we- we can do it, we can cooperate.

So I was talking about my mum and how she doesn't want my help, and yep I can see a bit more clearly now as I'm writing, that me wanting to help is about me wanting to work with her, cooperate, But....this has been my major realisation- I can be a bit inclined to blame others too, and to say you, esp with family and H. Looking to others to meet my needs, and probably in some way looking for dependence back from them, and yet, cos I know better, thats not what I really want. So recognising my issues with dependence, and independence, and seeing the ideal reality of interdependence more clearly is helpful to me.

His first habit is to be proactive, so thats shaking things up a bit as i work on practicing it. Haven't really gotten far into the second habit- begin with the end in mind.

How is the PTSD stuff going? Have you had any major triggers lately? Any improvements that you've noticed since identifying it?

Cheers,

J*

[Guest_4643]

Hi Blue.

I don't have a MHCP currently because no Psychologists seem to want to help me. I have had ones in the past and know how they work though.

I'm not religious, and I don't study and work. I'm just a failure really.

[ecomama]

Hey Blue

Sorry I haven't visited this thread much recently, things snowballed at home as they invariably do.

I hear you and know what you're saying about it all back a few posts. I also understand you thinking you 'should have done better in dealing' but that's a bit unfair of you on yourself really lol. You're not a robot!

I spoke briefly with my psych friend about the definition of "trauma".
SO as I understand it now, it's our emotional reaction to an event.

Take infidelity for example. I'll use our life examples as the man being the adulterer.
I've known some women to literally turn a blind eye to it all, to keep the status quo.
Maybe as somewhat of a relief also.

Is that situation traumatic? maybe maybe not, each person would have to answer for themselves. My friend says it's a relief and has nothing intimate to do with her partner, they're more like room mates who don't get on. Her choice.

For me it undeniably WAS traumatic. Probably for similar reasons to you; trust & commitment was understood and this was broken.
Moreso I would never knowingly be in a relationship with an unfaithful person end of. The risks associated to my sexual health are far too high.

I would feel majorly undervalued.

I am a faithful person, I have the talk or a few talks if they think it's necessary, but if they're not faithful from the get go, then it's over.

Tbh I think it's a character flaw in ppl and I won't knowingly be in relationships with ppl with this character flaw.
It's simply unnecessary when there ARE people who want & expect the same level of commitment from their partner as I do.

I also won't enter into the bs RIC the "Reconciliation Industrial Complex". See Chumplady.

Bottom line for me though - I can't LOVE them anymore once they've done that.
It's like a light switches OFF immediately.
Sure I've felt deeply upset and betrayed but love? Nup. Gone. SHUT DOWN.

So for some ppl, possibly those who just put up & shut up, may have felt some trauma and then got over it and stayed IDK.

Some ppl feel betrayed their entire lives by their spouse doing it. Never moving on.

I prefer to end it immediately & move on because their behaviour is ALL on them, regardless of what the RIC has to say.
Longitudinal observation of these ppl have shown me NOTHING changes.
Leopards - spots.

They can live in that cesspool without me thankyou!

Love EM

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey J*,

Glad my reply to Golden was helpful for you, too. What you've done there is think through a situation and identify a lot of important things. Of course the truth of what you've said is taking time to sink in - for your emotional understanding to catch up with the intellectual. You have a lifetime of conditioning to undo, and frankly that isn't going to take five minutes.

The important thing is you've taken up the banner and are doing the work you need to do. You are analysing situations, breaking them down relative to what you are learning, and making sense of the things that are happening. As you continue to do this, it will become second nature. I think we've talked about "rewiring the brain" - that consistently doing a thing shifts neural connections so that the new behaviour of analysing and understanding becomes the natural go-to over the old behaviour of giving in to self-blame.

You'd be pleased, J*, I came across Covey's book whilst browsing in a shop the other day, and bought it. Of course I've hardly had two seconds to scratch myself since, never mind read it, but I'll get there. Anyway, the paradigm is quite interesting. You bet ol' Blue has fit squarely in the Independent mindset for many a year, learning the co-operative ideas of Interdependence with my partner has been work. He still reminds me often to switch up my personal pronouns about our home, our birds, etc. I do still default to I/my a lot.

It sounds like you're doing a lot of work re the paradigm, and learning a lot about yourself and others. I hope your observations about yourself are sitting with you as things to understand and modify if needed rather than as points of self-blame.

I did flick through the book enough to see the stuff about being proactive and beginning with the end in mind. These things both come naturally to me for the most part, which admittedly has really helped me bull my way through a lot of what life has thrown at me. I think you're doing great with being proactive, all this research and analysing. Go you!

Nothing too major in the way of triggers. With me it's a simmering of many, many minor to moderate triggers. I feel a bit like Sideshow Bob - that bit where he steps on a rake that hits him in the face, turns away and steps on another, then another, ad nauseum. Ugh. Improvement is relative - since identifying it has meant delving into things, i.e. stirring stuff up. Like with cleaning an area, it often gets messier before it gets cleaner.

Blue.

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey Tayla,

Just out of curiosity, are you in a rural or city area? If city, you have a good pool of GPs and psychologists to choose from, try not to be too put off by some unhelpful ones. Unfortunately you'll go through a few dodgy ones before you get to the good ones.

I'm not religious either, far from it. Church-based organisations often help regardless of that. Also, at what point did work or study become markers for your sense of self-worth? If you're not doing these, that doesn't make you a failure. Our society does, unfortunately, drum into us a sense we must always be doing. If we started from a place of being, allowing ourselves to work out who we are, where we want to be, just maybe there wouldn't be so many miserable, unhealthy people. Just a thought.

Blue.

[Guest_4643]

Hi Blues.

I'm in a rural area (not like middle of nowhere rural but yeah). I've looked into the closest bigger city here and other suburbs and still nothing.

I left school in year 10 (2015) because I couldn't cope, I lost my Grandparents (Mum's parents, Dad's passed away before I was born) in 2013 and 2015, school was stressing me out although I tried my hardest, bullying, I was becoming physically ill, and so forth. I don't study because I don't know what I want to do, can't get NDIS, can't afford it, I don't have the mental capacity. I've tried volunteering and joining groups to meet people even before COVID, and nothing. I've never worked either. I have looked into the things above though. So I am a failure, but thank you anyway.

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey EM,

All good, I know what you've had on your plate. Plus this thread is apt to trigger things, so I wouldn't like you to be here when you're not feeling up to dealing with that sort of thing.

You commented about me thinking I "should have done better in dealing". Not far off the mark, and you sound just like my psych re being unfair on myself. She gave me the exercise of trying to treat myself like I would treat a friend when I get caught in that mindset. Not groundbreaking, I've heard that, but she did give me an aha moment in relation to that. What she said that was treating someone poorly for feeling sad/hurt/etc. was outside my value system (we have talked extensively about values). I.e. if I treat anyone - including myself - that way, I am acting outside my values. Of all the things that have been said to me on the subject, that resonates the most.

I see your point about trauma being about the effect, not the cause. I have known plenty of people to shrug off infidelity. I don't understand it, but there you are. I was not one of those people.

I agree with everything you've said there. The understood trust and commitment are broken. Unfaithful partners absolutely do risk our sexual health and potentially our lives. They treat us and our own faithfulness/commitment as being without value.

I'm 100% the same re faithfulness, and I am inclined to agree it is a character flaw. I have known a few people over the years in poly-amorous relationships, but as much as I recoil from the concept, at least there is honesty in those. It is the broken trust that really makes it a flaw.

I did look at the Chumplady site after you mentioned it. Maybe there's more to it, but what I found was just letters and replies - the letters of course being emotive and irrational. The agony aunt format for me was high on triggers and low on helpfulness - with due respect, I think I'll give that particular reference material a miss.

You know what? I always thought I'd ditch someone immediately for that, too. It is such a shock to the system when it happens. I didn't "put up and shut up", I made damn sure he understood the mess he'd made. To be fair (per my research that suggested recidivism is not at all guaranteed), he didn't repeat that particular mistake. He just went on to do everything else wrong that he could think of. Nevertheless, once I hit a point of seeing no redeeming features to a relationship I do shut down completely and just leave. Which I did.

Blue.

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey Tayla,

I hope you don't give up. Sometimes it just takes time to find where we are going.

You know what? I left school in Year 10, too. Different reasons, but it sounds like you had perfectly good ones for doing so. With no real direction in mind, I later took up adult re-entry into high school, which is a very different environment. I had my share of bullying in school days, but adult education is so different, you're in with people who want to be there and learn, instead of a bunch of idiots who are there because they don't have a choice. I would encourage you to give that a try part-time, dip your feet in the water. It's those last two years of high school with electives to choose from that give you much more help in finding where you want to go later in life. As for work, I bet there would be fruit picking available in the coming months, they're always looking for people. It's not a huge income, but it's a bit in your pocket.

I'm going to ask you to try to change that thinking, about being a failure. We may fail at things we try, but that isn't the same as "being a failure" - these are experiences that teach us something for whatever we try next. Plenty of successful people spent half their lives seemingly beating their heads against brick walls for years before something went right. As long as you're trying, you're not a failure.

Blue.

[Guest_4643]

Thanks Blues, I appreciate it. I'm sorry you dealt with bullying too.

I miss some teachers from primary and high school, not so much any people.

It didn't help when I had a friend who turned out to be toxic, who is now out of my life, that constantly bragged and threw things in my face. I've known this person since I was 8. She used to say stuff and lie to me. She was there for me in some ways yes, but it became too toxic in the end. I miss her sometimes though. We've had lots of arguments and became friends again like nothing went wrong over the years. So I don't know anymore with her.

Anyway I bought that up because her being like that doesn't help me with feeling like a failure, even if I don't talk to her anymore, it's always there

[ecomama]

Hey Blue

Wow there's so many points to talk about here!

One thing that popped into my mind was how you completely understood how this thread could potentially trigger me, esp with what's been going on lately here... (it hasn't btw lol) and this showed your kindness, empathy, compassion, caring etc etc about me.

THIS is what you can show yourself.
This is how you treated a friend.

And now I shall process my own words lol!!

TBH I AM RAPT that you also bought that book of Stephen Covey's!!!!

Sure there will be stacks you know but as you say the 'paradigm' and brilliant way this man can help us learn can be life changing.

c25y ago I was looking for his 7 Habits of Highly Effective Families (being shunned by society because of my 'single mother status') I wanted STRENGTH in my family unit.
I couldn't find it.
I found the "People" one and used it and was blown away by it's effect within my professional life. My first copy of that book fell apart at the spine I used it so much lol!
I went from working in a local office, to a District office, to a State office then to a Federal Office within about 18 months. Headhunted for most of those positions.

Ofcourse in the past 25y since the devt of the internet & social media, many of his terms & concepts are bandied around more readily nowadays.

Sure thing about Chumplady... horses for courses ofcourse!
I LOVED that I could laugh through my tears, she most certainly gave me that with the "Universal BS Translator"!
Plus when I read stuff she had listed the 8 things cheaters do and I could coin everything coming out of demons chewer immediately.

Personality VS Character.
demon ONLY had a personality not any character.

Stephen Covey explains this beautifully in a YouTube clip if you search just that.

Love EM