Questioning some things

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Those of you who know me know I have been bouncing from one rough life event to another for years, without really any time to take a breath in between. I can state well enough the things that have happened to me, but haven't had much energy to delve deeply into what those things have done to me. In the time off work since my partner had major surgery (yup, another fun crisis), I had time to start pulling at threads, to get a Mental Health Care Plan, see a psych and talk to a counsellor. As much as I always knew my life has been a steaming pile of crap, the threads I am pulling are connecting dots and giving rise to possible clarifications of events and what has arisen in their wake.

My childhood was severely neglectful. Mostly emotionally, but also in some physical ways. We kids didn't sleep in the (perfectly good) house, we slept in a caravan nearby - Mum cleaned up her and Dad's bedroom and the kitchen after the mouse plagues, but apparently our rooms weren't worth the effort. He carries on about her "unfit" parenting, but it's not like Dad did anything about it either. We were fed and clothed well enough. Never a lot of attention from either of them. I don't remember a single hug from either one during my childhood. Mum would immediately disinfect her hands if by some chance she came to touch one of us. Some years later, post parental divorce, Mum's settlement money ran out and we endured a brief stint without a home, a much longer (years) stint of inadequate food and no hot water.

I actually became pretty functional after moving out. Worked, studied, maintained a place on my own. Went through a couple of less than healthy relationships and endured with surprising resilience. Then came the last relationship. First two years, no major problems. Then bam, he's unfaithful. Enter ol' Blue's depression, that's the straw that breaks the camel's back. Damn fool remained in contact with him and we tried again at the relationship. To be fair, he didn't repeat that particular mistake. He tried hard to redeem himself and be a better partner. Until the ring was on the finger. Engagement in place, all effort fell away little by little. Dear gods did the neglect become overwhelmingly severe. I kind of got that there was a theme, but it's literally only now, years after breaking up with him, that I see why it was that straw that began my depression - just how closely what he did mirrored my parents' behaviour.

[Jstar49]

Thanks Blue,

for your answers to my questions.

It's good to know that you are close with the very ppl most able to understand and relate to what you're experiencing, tho perhaps they may be reluctant to go there if it's triggering.

All I can say is, tho what you experienced was normal for you, it wasn't great, and you deserved so much better. That doesn't make it any easier, I'm sure, but it may allow you to be righteously angry about what you didn't receive, from the ppl who were tasked with caring for you. They failed in their duty of care, and that's why you feel let down. You have the right to be safe, and loved and cared for. It's a basic human need. And I'm very sorry that need wasn't met.

The PTSD- the only thing I can compare it to is my delayed shock after a car accident with a truck. For days I replayed that event, and was so very tired I could not move or take care of my daughter.

Our mind is a sensitive thing. It can do wonderful things, and also horrific, unhelpful things. I wonder if the teachings of Dr Caroline Leaf would be interesting to you? She talks about the malleability of the brain, and how we're often run by root thoughts that unknowingly control us. Very scientific- her presentations are easier to grasp than the books by themselves. I liked it, but not sure if it's suitable for you at this time.

I can understand why neglect can be called the worst abuse. There are stories of infants with 'failure to thrive' syndrome, because of never being picked up, or cuddled, and cared for lovingly, affectionately. We need this stuff, and without it, our development could be stunted.

Maybe you got cuddles from your sibs? Is there anyone else who you can remember being loving?

My aunt was a great source of comfort, esp later in life as I looked for role models. We saw her once a year, but it was enough to open up my loving caring nature. My memories of those visits are golden and backlit, like in the movies lol.

With care, and not exactly silent after all,

J*🌻

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Thank you EM and J*, you guys have helped me through today. It's been a busy day and I have work ahead of me first thing, tomorrow. Will reply properly when I can spend the time and focus, I'm staying over with my partner's family for a shorter drive to work in the morning, they live closer than I do.

Kind thoughts to you both, I think you're pretty awesome, too.

[ecomama]

Hey Blue and a wave to J* and everyone reading,

Blue, I want you to know that you're not alone at all. As sad as this is to say, childhood abuse and neglect is a 'shared human experience' for so many of us. That quote is from Kristen Neff who is a gentle psych and researcher in healing from trauma and espouses self-care as the ONE thing we can do to promote healing. This is found in her research.

But I see you trying to process not only how the childhood experiences played out but also very importantly how your adulthood experiences played out. Both contributing to WHO you are now. Moreso how you are REACTING to them ie how you "are" now as an individual.
Is this correct?

I think it's far too much to try to process and work out at once.
If you took one traumatic event OR one of your reactions now OR one thing you'd like to work out now, that would be plenty!

I think it's kinder and more mentally healthy to PICK ONE.

It seems the infidelity of your past partner has really deeply affected you (and this all intensely affected me too). Seeings as you're in a new relationship, it could be the most relevant to process?
IDK that's up to you entirely.

It's easy to feel overwhelmed when we look at it all in one bucket lol.

Lastly, just as self-care covers SO many things to help us heal.
So does forgiveness. No I'm not going all religious on you! LOL! It's actually a THING outside Christianity too!

Forgiving ourselves first being the most powerful.

Just as our parents are not perfect, neither are we. No one is!
And I find when reflecting upon our own lives and those who've harmed us, we compare every single person to some idea of perfect.
Perfect parents, perfect partners, perfect co-workers saying "they weren't supposed to do that!" etc.

But they do and they did and we do because NO ONE'S perfect.
This is where we can forgive all others if we forgive ourselves first.

I think you'll find Brene Brown's online talks eg her Ted Talks very entertaining and VERY useful.
Another researcher but one that straight talks in stories.

Love EM

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey there EM,

I'll start with your first post. I'm sure I can find related research. Do you recall any names articles she may have cited? I suspect the incidence of substance abuse in neglect survivors probably has a bit to do with lack of parental guidance, or mixed signals in what guidance they got (actions not matching what they say). My lot were at least consistent about that, and didn't hand down any genetic predilection to substance abuse.

You remind me a lot of myself in some ways, EM. All the research you do, and that bull-headed determination to beat the odds. I've read a bit about those trajectories you mentioned. I think there aren't many people avoiding them because of just how bloody hard it is to get anywhere with so little support. At the risk of tooting my own flute (and yours), it takes a hell of a lot of strength and discipline to get through the crap we have in more or less one piece. Most people just don't have it.

I appreciate your understanding re the infidelity, and I am sorry you have been through that even once, let alone multiple times. Seriously, what is wrong with people? I would have to say that event is the possible PTSD for me - the other stuff is solid trauma but events too numerous and muddled to have quite the same individual effect. Definite reactions to them, it's going to take time to sort out what reactions mean what.

I'll have a goosie at that site at some point. I think tackling it with some humour is good. I've been known to laugh at my own pain from time to time, if not on that subject at this point. Still too raw, though it wasn't recent.

I completely agree about your unapologetic stance. It is a deal breaker. For me at this point, not just in a partner. It is rare for me to turn away from a friend, but I did end a friendship not so long ago because she committed adultery. It's not like she didn't know he was married. She made the choice to do one of the most destructive things a person can do and I won't have that influence in my life. Just no. The people we keep in our lives reflect our own values.

Merry Christmas indeed, my friend. What light banter we deal in for the festive season, haha!

Blue.

[Clues_Of_Blue]

On to the next one, EM,

Thank you. Not being alone is a good thing, though the fact abuse and neglect are so bloody common, not so much. Added that name to my list of research tools.

Yep, you've read me quite right, at least to a reasonable extent. I'm not necessarily trying to process it all at once so much as following the daisy chain of interconnectedness. I pulled one thread, it led to another, which led to yet another. So my mind is a bit of a jumble of all this stuff that is related. It started with little perceived social slights and with trying to get financial help and being let down by the system, feeling like I was being told I don't matter. That led back to neglect from my ex, and further, back to my parents. That back to the infidelity - same reactions but stronger. It seems to me that reaction came from infidelity being the biggest shout of "YOU DON'T MATTER!" of them all.

You make sense re looking at one thing at a time, but I'm sure you'll see my point that it's hard to isolate just one thing when they all play a part. Not sure yet how to narrow down my focus, it keeps expanding again.

Would you not say forgiveness falls under the banner of self-care? Honestly, I'm pretty lousy at it, and frankly have found a lot of religious types (not all) to be worse at it than me, if you'll excuse my saying so - all dogma, no commitment. Forgiving myself is no easy task. I do hold the perpetrators responsible for their own actions but I'm not a believer in being a victim. I'm one of those people who holds onto shame and judgement of myself for allowing myself to remain in those situations. I didn't have control of it in my childhood, but later... Damn, but I screwed up good. As for expecting others to be perfect... I want them to manage at least a quarter of the standard I hold myself to. I have learnt to expect less than nothing. They still disappoint me.

I've heard the name Brene Brown around the place, usually attached to sappy inspirational quotes. I hate inspirational quotes. But maybe her stories are good.

Kind thoughts to you.

Blue.

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey J*,

No problem. Gotta learn to talk about this stuff eventually, right? Keeping it to myself got me into this mess.

My siblings and I don't talk in detail about all this stuff, it's just a tacit understanding I guess we didn't feel needed talking about. Bits of it come out at times. I think I would have no trouble broaching it further with them - a outcome from the lack of physical expression is that we are all very proficient with verbal communication and able to discuss pretty much anything.

Thank you, I agree I deserve better. I thought so at the time, and all the times in my adulthood. Believing better from others was possible, that's where it all fell apart. Just hadn't seen an example to know it existed. I have my moments of righteous anger, but mostly it just makes me tired.

One of the articles I read said vehicular accidents was one of the big things that results in PTSD. It's entirely possible you were experiencing it. They went on to say with support it generally eases up and becomes manageable fairly quickly - I hope you had that support.

I'll add Dr Leaf to my list of resources. Partly because she has a fun surname. 😉 I'm always interested in the mind's processes, and how it works. Knowledge is power, and all that.

Yeah, I've read about failure to thrive. I don't remember anything before I was 4 or so. Whether I got any affection before that, I couldn't say, but it sure seems doubtful.

Nah, no cuddles from the siblings, we had no model to know that was a normal thing to do and didn't figure it out until adulthood. No family members or anything that were affectionate. Bunch of cold fish, the lot of 'em. I made some friends in adolescence that like to hug, quite the eyebrow raiser for me. I ran with it if someone else initiated, though it was faintly perplexing at the time. Glad you had someone in your environment at an early age that could model affection for you. Me, I found covid a bit of a relief in some ways. It still doesn't feel natural to run around hugging everyone, and it's kept people off me - ol' Blue is selective with her affection.

Hope you had a good Christmas.

Blue.

[Jstar49]

Hi Blue,

So much to process, it may take a few days for me to do so properly. Your story is so very different to mine and I don't want to assume anything.

Yes maybe it was PTSD, and I did recover, tho I didn't have much support. I remember struggling to care for my small child and my baby father (not even an ex really as it just never really was like that) came and looked at me, perhaps he took her for awhile IDK. Altho he did drive up and get us both after the accident so I guess it could have been worse. I remember anytime I was near a truck on the road after that, for years, I felt awful and moved away as fast as possible, even to the point of getting a speeding ticket once. The cop knocked it down because of my explanation which was nice. Goes to show the power that strong experiences have over us I guess.

I've tried to catch up a little on your other thread, but my eyes aren't good tonite. I think you've commented that the PTSD has shown up more in recent experiences which resemble the original trauma and neglect..?

That makes sense.

I can imagine that as achild and a dependent, you were too busy coping and surviving to fall apart. Your brain labelled life as 'normal' and hence possibly why they seemed to repeat in later life- it's said that we seek out whats comfortable, not necessarily healthful.

I personally am comfortable being misunderstood. It's not what I want, and I feel desperately disappointed at being misunderstood or misread by others, but I seem to recreate it. Then I feel like I'm not being heard and that I'm not important, disliked, have nothing useful to offer- you get my drift. (I'm basically thinking aloud here- sorry!) I guess what I'm working on now is valueing what I have to say, even when it is misunderstood. And recognising that many ppl in history have had important things to say, and had to fight very hard to be heard. The popular viewpoint is not necessarily the 'correct' or most useful one to a problem.

So I guess I can see that sometimes the thing which we try to remedy, and feel most unloved about, is our superpower. if we can manage to turn it around.

The interesting thing about Dr Leafs work( yes it is a cool name lol) Is her work on the root thought. So maybe, if you are pretty self aware, ( and you seem to be) you can begin to track the thoughts you have, which are bringing you down. It might even be helpful to journal or draw a tree- start at the thinnest branches. A branch is a thought.take your time.

I'm out

J*

[Jstar49]

Also Blue,

please forgive yourself for staying in bad situations. It wasn't your fault. There was obviously something in them which met a need at the time, or a reason you stayed.

It's really important to be your own best friend. Tell yourself the things you would tell someone else you care about and can see suffering. Give yourself the love you needed and deserved as a child.

Which reminds me of a rebirthing excercise ( sorry if this sounds too far out)

To lie in a safe place and visualise your own self at a young age. Spend time doing this, listen to her, find out what she needs, what hurts etc ( it's funny, the language may even be quite childlike and pictural)

AND THEN... give your inner child what she needs. Hold her, if you can. comfort her, tell her that it's ok, that you're sorry you couldn't be there at the time to make it better, and tell her that you're here now, and you will protect her and care for her.

Don't judge yourself or be critical, and just let the experience be whatever it is. But make your surroundings as safe as possible, and as supported as possible. A blanket, soothing music, and time to rest after wards. Water.

Does this sound hopelessly trippy and hippy? If so I apologise- that is my background. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea (and I suspect you're quite practical Blue!)

Also I can relate to covid being a bit of a relief- I felt ok about not being incredibly social, I didn't feel the need to perform and get out of my comfort zone, which meant I felt more 'normal'. Isn't it funny how we do that? Judge ourselves based on what seems normal for others? The pack instinct to conform!

Still, ....HUGS!

(You may raise your eyebrows at me, I'm the type who will hug you anyway lol)

J*

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey J*,

All good. Not assuming things is a wise fallback.

That all sounds understandable. I still get a bit uncomfortable seeing motorbikes coming toward me after one slid out on a corner, straight under my wheels (the rider survived, if somewhat the worse for wear, and totalled my car). It's pretty normal I think, for something like that to stay with you. An incident with a truck would likely leave you with a lot of unhelpful "what if" thoughts. Are you doing better with it, now?

I have a few threads on the go, do you mean the main one, in Long Term Support? Honestly, I am rather verbose, I wouldn't expect anyone to keep up with more than one of my threads at once, if that. I would say that trauma responses have been showing up recently, I don't think as severe as PTSD, but related to neglect. Still muddling through the experiences and reactions, trying to make sense of it all. Noticing disproportionate dismay at minor situations that might not have hit me like that in years gone by. Too many layers of bad atop each other.

As an adult I did consciously look for relationships/friendships that didn't resemble my upbringing. Methinks something in my subconscious may have been sabotaging my efforts for a long time. Though honestly I'm not even sure that is true. Everywhere I look there are people in unhealthy relationships, I do think there is a huge failing in our society in teaching people to communicate and value each other, so neglect and abuse do come up an awful lot for possibly the majority of people.

Your attitude to being misunderstood is good. That said, your communication is perfectly straightforward and easy to understand in my opinion. I've never been a fan of popular opinion, I'm always the one pointing out the elephant in the room while everyone else is desperately ignoring it. I actually really relish that role.

I wonder if you are not being misunderstood at all - I have learnt that people rarely see what is in front of them. When they seem to be responding to you, they are often responding to their own thoughts and fears and memories, their perceptions and just plain crap they've made up. It just isn't about us. That is what I find so infuriating. I believe that is at the root of my experience with people and why it is so common. I have sought all my life those who can actually see what is real and acknowledge it. Uphill battle, I can tell you!

Blue.

[Jstar49]

Hi Blues,

Yes I think long term support is where I tried to read up a bit.

I like that bit about the elephant in the room- Some wierd moments when I've realised that no-one else seems to see or acknowledge said elephant.............I think it usually leaves me tongue tied. I'm better at writing my thoughts I think, but tbh the thoughts that are returned still seem to indicate a muddled message. But yes, ppl have their own agenda, and it's not usually about trying to answer your question or concern. Politicians ! Spin!

I'm totally fine now, that happened nearly 20 yrs ago. And the closest memory I had to be able to relate to your experiences of PTSD. I think it was probably more just delayed shock tbh. I berated myself heavily for all the decisions I made leading up to that accident believe me! And I have never since exhausted myself cleaning the house before a long trip! So I learnt something!

Gosh yes! Communication is not taught at all, conflict resolution needs to become compulsory, and valueing ppl- I know I have not valued ppl nearly enough in my life. Perhaps it is a consequence of getting older that I now do. Then again, I come from a generation where men were supposed to be distant fathers and husbands, and this generation has a totally different story. Do you see communication skills changing in younger ppl? Fathering expectations def seem to be changing.

Did you spend Christmas with family?

Cheers

J*