Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

[Tams20]

I’ve been struggling with depression lately and have been experiencing some very dark moods. I haven’t missed a day of work or caring for my family, even though I barely hold it together some days and my weekends are usually spent recovering. I’ve been on SSRIs for a few months that I feel aren’t working that well and have also scheduled a review with my GP this week. Am also going to ask for counselling just so that I can talk to someone about my issues, as I am not one for burdening friends and family with my problems.

Just recently I have started fantasising about a particular method of suicide. Quite graphic thoughts and planning (I won’t go into detail) that has gotten me so concerned that I now take steps so that I physically couldn’t do it. I don’t actually believe that I could do it, I don’t actually think that I am suicidal, but on some days I feel quite reckless about it, almost as if I’m daring myself to do it. I almost enjoy the thought of it. After the urge has passed I think if my kids and I feel like the worst person in the world.

Is this a common thing for when you’re depressed? Is it perhaps related to the medication?

Thanks.

[Tams20]

I should probably clarify a few details re: the above... we’re both female, both married with kids (mine quite young, hers are teenagers). We’re both relatively unsatisfied with our marriages, we’ve both considered splitting up. Although part of that has probably been due to our feelings for each other...

I’m the breadwinner and my husband is a stay-at-home Dad. Our financial situation is relatively straightforward and I could afford to split (although it would be a drain financially). We are currently debt free.

She’s got a relatively low paid job and relies on her husband financially. They have a mortgage and investment properties that aren’t doing well. Their situation is quite complicated.

As far as I know she has never been in a same sex relationship, although I would not be surprised to find it that she has. I was in a relationship with a woman for a few years in my late teens/early 20s (best friends with benefits)

We both have mutual friends and have a lot of contact socially. We also play soccer together. So ending the friendship was never really considered as an option, nor was it wanted, from either side - we still could be really good friends if we can get this under control and I think we both want that as an option.

It has been a real test of my mental health! Thankfully I have been able to confide in a close friend of mine (who also knows her). I’ve come out of this ok 😊

[Tams20]

(Not sure whether my follow up post went through...)

I should add that we’re both female and married with kids. Mine quite young, hers are teenagers. Her financial situation is complicated, she doesn’t earn much and she believes that she can not afford to split with her husband (she’s been close on a few occasions and has decided not to). Mine is simpler, I earn quite a lot and could afford to split with mine (even though my husband is the primary carer and stay-at-home parent so I would be financially responsible for him)

[Birdy77]

Dear Tams,

It's good you've returned, welcone back.

I'm sure Croix and Mary will be happy to see you here and talk again.

Meanwhile, i was wondering just how you're feeling about the whole scenario?

I know you've said you've steadied the ship and you are re-building the relationship (friendship?), shich is great to hear.

I just wondered what it is that you would like out if all this? What, for instance, might be your ideal scenario?

I know you're not 100% happy in your marriage ... is a relationship with her something that you want to think about (despite all her life issues that point towards that being prohibitive).

I just couldn't totally grasp the sense of what you would love to have happen, in a perfect world . Maybe you don't know, and that's ok.

Just letting you know you're being listened to and are being cared about.

🌻birdy

[Tams20]

Hi Birdy,

Thanks for your response 😊

As for your question... what I would like out of all of this... in an ideal world, yes, I would like a relationship with her. I have thought about that. A lot. And it has caused me a lot of anguish and hurt to be honest.

But it’s far from an ideal world and she shut down that as an option straight away. Aside from a brief phone conversation early on (where she said she valued my friendship but we need to ‘move forward’) we haven’t discussed anything. I’ve tried suggesting it and she’s shut me down every time, sometimes quite brutally.

It’s quite ironic that she thought that the ‘elephant on the room’ was such a big issue for us that she needed to bring it up that night, but then wouldn’t talk about it then (other than to say she can’t do anything) and actually hasn’t let me talk to her about it since. This elephant that we couldn’t ignore is now being ignored again and it’s actually grown bigger.

I don’t actually think she’s mature(?) enough to entertain anything other than denying it and hoping it will go away. She had a difficult childhood (she was adopted and had an abusive stepfather and apathetic mother) and, while she seems normal and together on the surface, I’ve realised that her coping skills aren’t great. She just closes herself off. I think the ‘push/pull’ cycle that she has subjected me to over the past couple of years may be a deeply ingrained pattern.

I’ve no doubt that in her ideal world she would leave her husband to be with me but I also have no doubt that she has absolutely ruled that out in reality. So it’s really not good for my wellbeing to continue to think about it.

It’s really sad. It’s not often that we meet someone that we have this connection with and to just throw it away because it’s ‘too hard’ just doesn’t seem to make sense. There’s always a way to make things work. But anyway... I need to move on. For my own wellbeing.

She’s really good with me in person. A bit confusing, because I can still feel the attraction from her, its still there and it feels surprisingly comfortable between us... yet it’s something that absolutely cannot be discussed. I actually think she’s worried that if we discuss it we will find a way to make it work. She’s avoiding the solution. Because she knows there is one. But we should be able to remain friends. The attraction is there but if there’s no intent behind it we should be able to manage it. One day we might even be able to have a laugh about it.

[Tams20]

I’m still battling with this, what to make of the situation.... I’m trying very hard to only see the positives and to let those paranoid, negative intrusive thoughts pass through my head without taking hold. It’s a daily struggle.

I’ve seen her a couple of times since my last post and she is warm and friendly towards me. Genuinely happy to see me. I see the way that she looks at me sometimes and it’s obvious that something is still there for her. As it is for me. Our focus is always on each other. Even when we’re talking to someone else we are keeping an eye on each other. I never noticed that with her before. And now I see it all the time.

I’m not sure how this will pan out for us. She has made it clear that nothing can happen but it appears that her head and her heart may disagree. So I’m not sure what that will mean for us really. It doesn’t feel like there’s tension and frustration between us, like there was before our ‘confession’, but there’s something unresolved and I’m not sure how long that can go on for.

It feels like we might be moving toward something significant happening. Either a big bust up or accidentally getting together on a night out. Either way I think it will have negative consequences for us.

I’m not sure how long I can continue to pretend with her. I’m in a good mental state at the moment, coping surprisingly well, trying to only see the positives, but I know that can collapse at any time. Who knows what I will do then. Sabotage the whole thing? Hide myself away from her?

We need to talk about it, even if it’s just to properly acknowledge how we feel and agree that nothing can happen. Set the record straight. I’m so scared to bring it up with her though, as I think she’ll be angry with me for trying. Like I’m dragging her backwards when she’s trying (perhaps unsuccessfully) to move on.

I actually want the attraction to disappear so we can be close friends. Not sure whether that will ever happen though.

It’s so hard.

[Birdy77]

Dear Tams,

It sounds like this situation is really consuming you at the moment. It must be a huge battle for you when you know what you want to happen (be with her) but also know that it won't happen (because she won't let it).

You feel that you need to talk about it, be honest with each other, but from what i understand, the last time you both tried to do that, she shut that down. Even though she was the one who brought it up initially. It sounds like she doesn't have the communication skills necessary to have the important discussion.

Not knowing if this is something that might be helpful between you, but i wondered if writing it all down in a letter to her might work better, as you'd be able to express how you feel, without her pulling the plug on the convo because it feels all too hard for her?

I dunno, that might feel all too formal or awkward, but it seems that where it's at right now is not really beneficial for you (in terms of your anguish around it, and the thoughts that are circling, circling), and it's really just ignoring the elephant again, having introduced him to the room.

It's a really frustrating headspace to be in, and when the communication lines aren't truly open, it's very hard for you to try to resolve anything.

🌻birdy

[Tams20]

Hi Birdy,

Thanks for your post. I think I will write that letter, just to get it all out of my head, but I won’t give it to her. It might be the end of our friendship if I do and I’m not ready to let go of her just yet.

We’ll both be going away as part of a group in a couple of months for a sports tournament. If the feelings are still there and nothing has happened by the end of that trip (conversation or otherwise) I’ll give her the letter. And suffer the consequences. If it’s still going by then (5 months in) I’ll need to rip that bandaid off, one way or another.

In the meantime I’ll keep being warm and friendly with her when I see her. Given our little secret it won’t take much for me to be able to show her that I’m there if she changes her mind about a relationship, particularly if her behaviour towards me continues to be positive (flirty even?). But I will try not to obsess over her, I’ll keep my expectations low and continue to play it cool. If something happens between us, it has to come from her, I’m not going to push for anything. Not going to be rejected again, it hit me so hard last time. I was a mess. Can’t do it again.

I can’t see things continuing like this for us, we can pretend that the feelings have gone and we’re done but clearly they haven’t and we’re not. It’s unsustainable.

My psych told me to run away (literally) because there was almost zero chance that we’d be able to remain friends. She said it will either be an affair or a bust up and she warned me to be very careful with my mental health. I was hoping she was wrong but maybe she wasn’t. She said if we can stay friends it will be testament to our maturity and self-control. Unfortunately I’ve got the maturity without the self-control, and she’s got the self-control without the maturity. Disaster.

[Birdy77]

Dear Tams,

I'm glad you might write that letter, even if you don't give it to her, & it just ends up a useful tool for yourself in sorting out your feelings and thoughts.

It sounds like you have a good plan, with gauging how it is up to the time of the event away with the group.

Writing it down between now & then, you can revisit it & see if things are evolving for you at all.

I know there's the strong attraction & the desire to be with her. I'm just wondering though, if her immaturity & unhelpful coping/communication strategies would actually end up giving you a real headache, if you were to pursue the relationship?

I had a situation once with a friend that was not exactly the same but similar in some ways to yours. I was very close to letting it happen, but as i thought it through, i realised how much i really struggled with a lot of things about their personality. I ended up writing a list of behaviours i enjoyed & those that were crazymaking or would be within the context of a relationship. The second list ended up being super long & the first rather short, which was interesting because we were close friends (and the attraction was very strong).

It was eye opening & helped me to move past the idea of wanting anything more than friendship, because it became clear that the reality of it would be seriously problematic. The attraction remained for a time, but i could compartmentalise it, & it eventually resolved itself. If we had gone there, it would have been a disaster.

Sometimes the idea of something is way better than the reality of that thing.

Not to say that if you tried that exercise of making a list that you would end up with a long list of bad & short list of good like i did, but i guess just hearing how she has dealt with issues in your friendship, the immaturity, etc, putting all of that into the context of living together or being together as a couple, it might put a different spin on it, if that makes sense? It might help you to put some muscle on that self control?

And I think your psych is right to encourage you to be wary of an affair: it would be a very precarious situation for your mental health, & would it be worth risking that for what you could have with her?

🌻birdy

[Tams20]

Hi Birdy,

Thank you for sharing your story, it definitely helps to be able to discuss this with someone who has experienced something similar.

If you don’t mind me asking, did you manage to remain close friends, once everything had cooled down? Or was it a bit different? Did it take long for you to ‘compartmentalise’ the attraction and get it under control? Mine comes and goes. I saw her at soccer training last night and we were getting on well (a bit flirty maybe) but I didn’t feel the attraction as strongly.

I started writing my list and the pros and cons are 50-50 at the moment. One thing I have noticed, though, is that her list would very likely be very similar to mine if she were to do one. I’m not sure what to make of that.... a mutual friend of ours has always said we are twins, we have a lot of similarities. She always joked that we should get together.

Will keep adding to the list as I think of things. Depending on the outcome, I may not need to write the letter. It depends on the conclusion that I reach about what future I want I guess.

I think we could have a wonderful future together but it would require both of us to make some changes in our behaviour and thought patterns. It would be for the best for both of us if we did, regardless of our relationship status, but whether we could do it... I’m just not sure...

Tams

[Birdy77]

Dear Tams,

How interesting that the pros and cons are 50/50 so far, and that you think her list would be similar.

Good idea to keep the list going as you go along and see how you feel about things. I think it can often be good to get things down in lists and letters, out of the head. It can help.

Yes, in my situation we have remained good friends, the attraction hung around for a while, but after I'd made that realisation, it just felt like an infatuation sort of thing i guess, or something like that. We're friends to this day, he is happily married and i am with my long term Lady Love 😊.

I've done the same exercise with a few different people, and it's always helped. One i made about a woman i thought i was madly in love with, and omg-ness, i kept the list and it is hilarious! It has about 3 things on the pro side and about 23 on the cons. What was i thinking? I found it not long ago and was having some serious belly laughs. I wrote one reason: "had a clothespeg in the saucepan with the potatoes that one time" and i remember another one was "terrible taste in hats". Can you believe it. 😂 What a shallow little thing i was. But seriously, come on. They are crucial points!

It's interesting that the attraction didn't feel as strong last night at training, and that it comes and goes for you. Do you think there's a reason for the fluctuation or just mood or something else?

Glad it's helping to talk it out.

🌻birdy