Is depression a natural reaction to an insane world?

[Unbeliever]

This is a thought I have been pondering for a while.

The default to view depression as "something wrong", or a "brain chemical imbalance" or as "a disease" or something that "needs to be fixed" or requires "medication" or "therapy" appears to be the most common response of practically everyone. 

From doctors, to psychiatrists, to therapists, to the general population, to the depressed individuals themselves... the universal belief appears to be that "the person needs to get help".

But what if... the living in depressed state is correct? What if it isn't an "imbalance" or isn't something "wrong"? What if being depressed is the only natural state to be in for an intelligent, empathetic, compassionate, informed, thinking individual to exist in the current state of our world?

What if to NOT be depressed about is the true indication of mental sickness?

I'm not saying that being depressed is fun in any way... most people on this forum would be well aware that it sucks. But that is not what I'm saying. 

What I mean is... could existing in a state of depression be completely natural for someone living in a place where so many things are obviously terrible... both on a personal level and in the world as a whole?

My reasons for this perspective are numerous. Far too many to write in only 2500 words. But basically...

The real world is an extremely depressing place for any person that cares at all about anything outside of themselves.

Eg. If you care about animals... the reality is many beautiful species are already lost forever, many others are so close to the verge of extinction that even if everyone worldwide decided to do everything they could to save them... they would still be lost. At home there are people that still buy people animals as christmas gifts, refuse to desex their pets, the massive amount of pets put down in pounds annually. There is backyard animal cruelty, the dog racing industry using live bait, shooting race horses with legs, women's hormonal treatments for menapause, the meat industry, birds choking on our plastic half a world away, overfishing. The list goes on and on.

It is reality and it is depressing. Care about animals and feeling "depressed" about it IS correct. And that is one tiny subject in a plethora of subjects.

3 billion people in starving poverty, the water wars, religious fanatics, corrupt governments, womens rights violations, slavery, wars, child rape, etc etc

It's the people that are not depressed that worry me.

[Unbeliever]

Just Sara (Sez),
I should address the question you posed to me all those months ago.

Yes, I am aware of many of the good things happening in the world.

The little iron fish that guy made for starving people in 3rd world countries to put in their stew pots to combat iron deficiencies. The GM crops (yes I realise this is a controversial subject for many) but which is directly responsible for so many millions every year beening saved from starvation. Massive women's rights improvements over the last 4-8 decades. The popularisation of the animal protection movement. The endangered species breeding programs and the semi-complete eradication of the ivory trade. The almost worldwide statistic reduction of deaths of children under 5. The couple who sold their successful medical practise in England to move to Africa and provide free service for ex-child brides to sew up their insides after giving birth too young due to obstetric fistula.

The lady who dedicated her life to the protection of primates. The free access online plans for working hands and feet that can be printed by 3D printers. Sweden developing a system where government imposed fines amounts are determined by a persons annual income and net worth, rather then universally equal for all. Glow in the dark paint used for bike paths in countries in Europe. Indonesia building a massive solar farm which will soon power everything in their country everywhere. Those 4 guys in India that lifted a baby elephant with their bare hands that had fallen into a sewerage pit. People who donate their organs for transplant. Cheap vaccinations available all over the world that have almost entirely wiped out things like polio. That kid that dial 000 this morning and saved a stranger.... and much more.

I didn't look these up for this post. I am actively aware of them because I pursue them daily and constantly. I hunt for the good much more fiercely than the bad. I have always needed to... or I would have lost my mind long ago (argueably).

But can you even imagine what my opposing list even possibly looks like? (And I actually have done this... many years ago). There is no balance, not even remotely close. It is terrifying in reality how extreme the difference is.

You see... I'm not wearing "shadowy coloured" glasses any more than I could wear "rose coloured" ones. I view the world quite raw and unfiltered and I just wish I lived in a world where that would be a good thing.

[Unbeliever]

Regarding the feeling of "helplessness" (which has been brought up repeatedly in this thread and others whenever a person dares to bring up any stresses they have to do with "big world" issues).

I've never really felt helpless about those kinds of large problems. I kind of wish that I did to be honest.

It must feel like a relief to know that something so important to you is literally "out of your hands" and that there is nothing you can do about it. But I don't feel that way at all.

My "stress" or my frustration about "world level" problems is that the solutions to so many of them that I see, no matter how large usually appear to be very obvious. The frustration is of course that I cannot solve them alone/ by myself, it would require the contribution (or sacrifice) of a significant number of others to make the change.

If I never have kids, that sacrifice alone is not sufficient to solve overpopulation problems. Me buying solar panels and a battery alone is not enough to effect climate change, pollution levels or encourage alternative energy and storage development. Me never driving a car is not enough to encourage alternative engine development. Me refusing to kill any citizens on their own foreign soil alone is not enough to stop wars. Me only eating meat a maximum of 3 times a week and only buying free range goods alone is not enough to promote better meat industry practices. But if everyone or even a significant percentage of people were willing to sacrifice just a little... even just in my own generation in my own country the changes that would have already happened would have been quite literally "world changing" by now with other countries following suit by our example.

But no... instead I just get the frustration, predictability and disappointment. In the end it is the lack of complexity that really drives me crazy.

But still, not the feeling of helplessness.

[Birdy77]

Dear Unbeliever, (waves to all 👋)

I am posting to say thank you.

I have not yet read the entire thread yet (I will), but have read the first 2 and last 2 pages so far.

You have articulated for me so much of what I feel, but am unable to put into words as perfectly as you do.

I agree with pretty much everything you have written.

You have crystallized a bunch of stuff that is in my head.

Thank you 😊😊😊

🌻birdy

[Peppermintbach]

Hi Unbeliever (and all),

As always, powerful and thought provoking posts. I’m really tired so this will be a short one from me...

Personally, your latest post on “helplessness” really hit home. I don’t feel helpless either...many other things, yes, but it’s not helplessness that I feel...

Thank you for articulating something that I have secretly wanted to express for a very long time but didn’t know how...

On a related note, I vaguely remember that you and I have previously touched on the topic of how small changes at the individual level can create changes en masse. The cumulative effect, right?

Thanks again 🙂

Pepper

[Peppermintbach]

Sorry, I meant I say ...

...small changes at the individual level by a larger percentage of people can create change en masse.

Pepper

[Unbeliever]

Birdy77 and Peppermintbach,

I'm glad that I inadvertantly hit apon some things that struck a chord with you both. I promise that it was entirely unintentional. 🙂

... just my normal thoughts bled out into the electronic ether.

[Peppermintbach]

Thanks Unbeliever (and a wave to all)

Intentional or unintentional, some of it still resonated so thank you again 🙂

Speaking of thinking, I have some to do myself. Lots of scattered thoughts and ideas swirling in my head. Just trying to make sense of it all...

Pepper

[Brunswick]

Yes, this is a brilliant thread for this community. I totally agree with the topic, at least the second half: it is an insane world that we love in. And depression is probably a logical, if not natural, reaction.

[Paullus]

As much as this thread has a significant intellectual tone of many iterations of what might be, I offer this. I live in a melancholic world, a swirling fog in which I contine to seek an exit with the elusive prospect of clarity of thought and basically just a bit of bloody happiness. It's a long bow to cogitate the possibility of we folk being the anointed ones while the rest of mankind wallow in their contentment, how dare they. For me, there was happiness in childhood, nothing remarkable in a 50's and 60's upbringing in a working class family with siblings, a dog and a stay at home Mother and a manual working Father. A far flung small country town provided the perfect backdrop for a drama free early life. I certainly wasn't depressed or sad back then. It was almost a utopian existence in comparison to the black dog that enveloped my life from late teens to the present. With maturity came responsibilities, followed by bewilderment over my same sex attraction even though I was engaged to be married (which I didn't), the death of my Father, the loss of my closest friend to road trauma and other events that shattered my utopia, but none of this do I put down to the mental entrapment that I live with today. I have no answer to this insidious condition and I will continue to look for that sense of well being I still recall way back when. Yes, we can deride the society that has evolved around greed and power along with an unsatiable desire to meet material needs that will never be satiated. But mental illness with its anguish is so very real and there are many ways sufferers with offer explanations such as in this thread and who is to say that none or all of it has merit. Life is a solo journey regardless of your particular set of circumstances and sadly some of us have to deal with the burden of depression. I hope all of you out there can remember better times, it might be a pointless search, but keep trying and give yourself a hug along the way and believe the sun will shine again.

[bigstar]

// "Yes, MRI machines do show differences between "functional" (cough, cough) brains and "depressed" brains.... also studying brains, pregnant womans brains, horny brains, teenage brains, threatened brains, car driving brains (I assume), video game playing brains, "not recieved enough likes on your last thread post" brains and "watching the last episodes of your favorite tv series" brains... of course there are differences. There should be or our brains would have serious problems". These scans don't really "prove" anything."//

None of the other things you mentioned are illnesses that result in suicide. There are observable differences between someone with parkinsons disease and someone without. Just like there are observable differences between someone with diabetes and someone without. Depression has clinical signifiers, this is absolutely unequivocal . I am not sure why proof is inverted commas either--are you trying to make a broad philosophical claim about the word 'proof' and the general problematic of science as it cannot really "prove" anything?

// "I have a dislike of the "chicken and the egg" question. Obviously, an animal similar to but with enough differences that by modern human definitions we wouldn't classify as a "chicken" laid the first egg. A "chickenlike" animal laid the first chicken egg. " //

You haven't solved the issue. Is a 'chickenlike' animal a chicken? If so then do we called a chicken that makes an egg but itself didn't come from an egg a chicken in the strict sense of what we know a chicken to be? Or not--who decides? Doesn't it it have to come from an egg to be a chicken?

"However, that a brain suddenly spontaneous changed its daily chemical release to result in "depression" without any reason or outside influences seems extremely unlikely. "

This is why depression is considered an illness. Absolutely people have depression for no real reason. There are people who are born into loving and caring families, afforded every opportunity in life, who kill themselves. And there are people who are born in war torn countries and lose their families to disease and go on to live fulfilling lives.

I'm glad you don't believe that life isn't made up of inexorable suffering. But I must say, declaiming that statement on beyondblue in the Depression forum really makes no sense 😐