Is depression a natural reaction to an insane world?

[Unbeliever]

This is a thought I have been pondering for a while.

The default to view depression as "something wrong", or a "brain chemical imbalance" or as "a disease" or something that "needs to be fixed" or requires "medication" or "therapy" appears to be the most common response of practically everyone. 

From doctors, to psychiatrists, to therapists, to the general population, to the depressed individuals themselves... the universal belief appears to be that "the person needs to get help".

But what if... the living in depressed state is correct? What if it isn't an "imbalance" or isn't something "wrong"? What if being depressed is the only natural state to be in for an intelligent, empathetic, compassionate, informed, thinking individual to exist in the current state of our world?

What if to NOT be depressed about is the true indication of mental sickness?

I'm not saying that being depressed is fun in any way... most people on this forum would be well aware that it sucks. But that is not what I'm saying. 

What I mean is... could existing in a state of depression be completely natural for someone living in a place where so many things are obviously terrible... both on a personal level and in the world as a whole?

My reasons for this perspective are numerous. Far too many to write in only 2500 words. But basically...

The real world is an extremely depressing place for any person that cares at all about anything outside of themselves.

Eg. If you care about animals... the reality is many beautiful species are already lost forever, many others are so close to the verge of extinction that even if everyone worldwide decided to do everything they could to save them... they would still be lost. At home there are people that still buy people animals as christmas gifts, refuse to desex their pets, the massive amount of pets put down in pounds annually. There is backyard animal cruelty, the dog racing industry using live bait, shooting race horses with legs, women's hormonal treatments for menapause, the meat industry, birds choking on our plastic half a world away, overfishing. The list goes on and on.

It is reality and it is depressing. Care about animals and feeling "depressed" about it IS correct. And that is one tiny subject in a plethora of subjects.

3 billion people in starving poverty, the water wars, religious fanatics, corrupt governments, womens rights violations, slavery, wars, child rape, etc etc

It's the people that are not depressed that worry me.

[Nigelpm]

Hi Sara..thankyou for commenting about me.I say inspiring stuff..but I don't believe it..I think that life is torture..from beginning to end..we live on a beautiful planet but money,human behavior and all the things we strive for are pointless and meaningless...personally I can wait until death as I am tired of breathing shitting and all manner of other things....I pray for a massive heart attack or cancer everynight as I am just so tired..I am 52 lived in France,England Sydney and Melbourne...our consciousness is so debilitating ...I don't want to be aware of my wants and don't wants any longer...Life as a human is futile and happiness is fleeting all the time...the nature of the mind is to dream,aquire and once realized dissatisfaction creeps in again...no pill,no therapy will fix this it is our nature and humanity will always have this curse.I sit here with wine and cigarettes...a poison that numbs the pain...and wait until the end..

[Unbeliever]

I walked away from the medication method a while ago. It was a long tweaking process for me.

First trial I became an emotional mess, it was the first period of my life that I screamed unjustified abuse at my mother ever and I had to stay away from people until the meds effects faded. Next test I became emotionally dead, just didn't care about anything or anyone anymore, followed by 4 months of being unable to sleep for more than 2 hours a day (if I was lucky)... even afterwards my sleeping pattern didn't recover for years afterwards. Then the next "batch" made me sleep... a lot, with no dreams ever. But I woke up each morning/afternoon with dried blood under my fingernails and down my face and neck. I was tearing at my face in my sleep. That lasted about 6 months, after which the facial scars have remained as a constant reminder and remains a big reason why I can no longer look at myself in the mirror 14 years later.

After that I stopped all medications. I felt I had given them a decent chance to help and had lost enough friends.

There was the group therapy for anger management. I did it after I attacked a man in the supermarket for backhanding his 5 year old daughter across the face in front of me. No police involved or charges, but the sudden loss of control made me concerned.

The group was filled with men, mainly forced to be there for beating their wives, girlfriends or children as a condition of their court sentence. And during the smoke breaks would discuss with each other about things like "you can't rape your wife or girlfriend" or "governments can't tell me not to hit my kids"...

I made it a few weeks via sheer will, but eventually I just lost it... with obvious results. You can't surround me these kinds of people and expect me to remain calm. I left "anger management" significantly angrier than I entered it.

There were other group therapies for depression. But my issues are too uncommon to be covered. The therapists have to devote their time to what helps the most people and I don't have the "Nobody loves me, I'm unlovable" issue that 87% of depressed people seem to have. So there was just no time to cover my issues that helped noone else. Sacrifice the few for the many. It's understandable.

1 on 1 stuff was ok. But most of the time those psych's and therapists admitted in the end that they felt "unqualified" to help me. I don't fit into any of the standards boxes in their training books and being palmed off constantly eventually gets to you.

[Nigelpm]

umm yeh..whats your point?

[Unbeliever]

Sorry Nigelpm, I accidentally tagged you in the last post.

Your way that you write your despair has a noticably poetic... and has a borderline romantic tragedy aspect to it. Perhaps that is some of the time you spent in France rubbing off in your writing. Regardless, it is interesting.

You mentioned "wants"... for this alone I envy you. It's good that you still have those, even if you feel that they are unattainable the mere desire is something I unfortunately have lost.

I do get the "tired" thing, it eventually just becomes a constant background ache in the back of your brain doesn't it! The nightly "please don't let me wake up tomorrow" ritual before sleep... even that becomes tedious after a while. I get it.

You mentioned the pointless and meaningless things that humans spend there time pursuing. I agree, but technically... that is not your problem, it's theirs. Isn't it? There are certainly things that exist in the world that are not involved in those stupid pursuits... right?

Or is it that you believe that there are no things available to humans that are not pointless and meaningless?

I would argue that happiness is meant to be fleeting... or at least is should be to some degree.

Not only would a state of constant happiness be unnatural, but an overdose of it would make people unappreciative of it when it does happen. There would be no feeling of "highs" if there were no existence of lows. Without that, happiness would lose all meaning and value.

I guess you meant that it is TOO fleeting. That the rare times it comes, too soon after it is gone. That sucks I'm sure, but out of curiousity... doesn't that make those moments all the sweeter? Or when they happen are you already preparing yourself for them leaving? I'm genuinely curious.

I found a lot of what you wrote interesting. We share a few aspects, but it is still obvious that we exist in very different places within the experience.

[Nigelpm]

Unbeleiver..I came on here to recover...man,your posts are so bleak!...I think I will just focus on my little life and find solace in that...maybe if everyone did that..they wouldn't struggle..Its not easy to speak for war torn civilians...but just maybe a cup of tea with their opponents may work...I know you will dismiss me as trite and superficial and probably self involved...well yes I AM..my circle of influence cannot envelope my circle of concern without a monolithic psychiatric meltdown....then my circle of influence would truly suffer..

[Just Sara]

Hey Nigel;

I'm back from town and have read the last few posts. One of the great things about BeyondBlue is having the choice to post or leave threads that trigger and don't sit well with us.

I 'am' glad though you voiced your concerns. Feedback, whichever way it goes, is generally accepted with gratitude and interest. So thankyou...

There are thread topics I steer clear of for my own health and well being. This thread isn't one of them because I enjoy engaging (intellectually) here and it doesn't affect my sense of self.

I 'do' accept and understand your response...absolutely. I also understand Unbeliever as well, (sorry to talk 'about' you UB) and hope that engaging with me could be a positive experience for him.

I'm glad you've stayed and still look forward to seeing you around the forum.

Kind thoughts;

Sez

[Just Sara]

So...UB; after reading your extensive history about the why's and what for's, guess what? I'm still here. In fact you're a welcome challenge from the norm of my posting day. I like that..

I now have an understanding of who you are and where you're from in regards to opinions and character. I too love a bunger, but with a coffee instead of wine. I snuck a Kahlua into one last night and felt a bit naughty, but enjoyed it none the less. It's not often I indulge.

Negative thoughts were the impetus; I had a good cry for a while and that didn't help either, but what the hey? It is what it is.

You've said some disturbing stuff about yourself and 'being' here. I get it for sure as I've said; I've come from a bad place myself.

I'm pretty disappointed with your psych's as I've picked up quite a lot about you in only a few posts. I figure if they're skilled and dedicated, they'd recognise it.

A little about me...I have a long history of extreme sexual, emotional, physical and emotional abuse which started probably at birth. I'm 57 and had a breakdown 3 yrs ago that nearly ended me. Psychosis, suicidal ideations, insomnia, hospitalisation and even more trauma just to name a few.

It hasn't been easy, but then I don't know what that means anymore. It's all hard! I've fallen down more times than I'd like to remember, but that's where my wisdom and faith came from. I'm proud of my ability to survive.

The thing that strikes me about your history, it seems to be from the perspective of an observer. I on the other hand have been the target. Many have told me I'm a legend because I keep getting up. In my mind, that's normal.

Please don't think I'm comparing, as I know the stat's (and experience) of observer trauma and how it can be more problematic than the victim. Both though, are confronted with the issues of survivor guilt/shame and control or lack of it.

I do hope you're willing to engage some more UB. I'm finding this discussion therapeutic believe it or not.

Till then...

Sez

[Unbeliever]

Hehe... a glutton for punishment huh? Overly wordy (and occassionally boring) punishment at that. Poor you.

I never drink alcohol anymore or use any drugs. They used to cheer me up, even just temporarily but they stopped doing even that. "Sad me" just instantly became sad drunk me or sad stoned me, so what was the point? The expense ceased to be worth it, I've been completely sober for many years.

Ironically, I don't think it has helped me one bit. Perhaps being "awake" too much isn't very healthy either.

I'm not disappointed in my past psych's. Most were very professional and obviously good at what they did. Passionate sometimes, impressive offices and qualifications on their wall. Knowing me is easy, just ask and I'll answer as honestly as I can. I'm that way with all people, so in a therapy session that aspect comes smoothly. I'm not in denial, I don't have a reason to hide anything, I understand myself pretty well, I know details of how I got from "there to here" and I don't feel embarassment talking about anything no matter how personal.

Understanding me and helping me? That's difficult. My symptoms don't fit well with normal origins. And many symptoms I should have are entirely absent. I felt sorry for most of them to be honest.

I'm sorry for what happened to you. It actually makes me angry that anyone did those things to you. Those things are top of my lists of hates.

Most of the terrible things that people do, there are "exceptional circumstances" which I can think of justifications for them happening. However, what you are talking about, there are not any justifications... not ever.

I can understand what happened to you but I can't relate to it. I've been very fortunate in my personal history, not any traumatic events of particular note. These things should not ever happen to anyone. I feel deeply for you.

I have some wisdom myself, but faith? Not so much. Not much of anything I ever hoped for ever came to pass, so faith is difficult to maintain. Feelings of self pride? Not really, I struggle with whether my survival has been in anyone's best interest in the end. I think I'm here simply because I'm just stubborn.

I'm an only child, raised by 2 women and no other family to speak of. Observation is what people like me do hahaha.

I don't think an observer's depression is more problematic at all. Perhaps for a victim it is easier to pinpoint the origin of sadness/pain... and there is less sympathy or attempt to understand an observer possibly?

[Just Sara]

God!! You express yourself so well; I'm floored. I really get you! Boring? What? Have you any idea how much sense you make?

Chronic sadness is the result of chronic 'watching' which creates negative pathways that need a lollipop man to redirect the traffic.

That's why I'm a huge advocate for medication, it helps reboot the ole noggin. Yeah, I know...sore point for you. It frustrates me when people haven't found the right one. (I refuse to say 'can't') Med's saved my life and I won't ever forget.

I got thru it UB. One excruciating moment at a time. Sigh...I too suffer from watching others suffer. I see an amazing person in your scribe. It pains me to know you see the world the way you do. I'm part of it you see...

As your observer, I'm helpless. Isn't that what you feel on a daily basis? Out of control helplessness? Was that what you meant when you said you felt deeply about what happened to me? Anger inciting? Or was it something else?

Just one thing about all the starving children; I was one of them. I'm here to tell the story. Isn't that something to celebrate?

Anyway, I'm ever so glad you've stayed and engaged. (I'm smiling) I'll be back on tomorrow at some stage.

'The world is a reflection of ourselves. Is what we 'see' our pain, or pleasure? Shall we choose?'

See you on the inside nerdy word. 🙂

Sez

[Unbeliever]

Communication has never been difficult for me. I perfected the method of taking the exceedingly complicated junk in my head and expressing it in way that people could understand long ago.

I think that is 1 of the reasons I don't have much luck in therapy or with psych's. About 50% of their job is simply getting out peoples deep hidden thoughts that they don't even know that they have and getting them to admit them out loud (and hopefully see how flawed or unrefined those thoughts are).

But in my case that job is already done when I first walk through the door. By the time they hear me explain the logical progression I made to reach my current thought processes, I think by the end of the 2nd session they find themselves wondering what the hell they are supposed to do with me.

Like I said before, I often feel very sorry for them. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that some of my therapists need therapy after having therapy sessions with me. Half-joking.

My empathy levels are possibly overdeveloped. I've never needed something to happen to me directly or to someone important to me to "care" and want to learn about it, understand it and look for possible causes and solutions.

Yep, meds are a sore point for me. I think about them every time I accidentally catch my reflection in a window, so I can't ever forget either. I hate my scars. I've accepted them, but I still hate them.

I have seen them work for other people. So I'm not anti-meds any more than I can be a "meds work for everyone" person.

You certainly don't have to take my view of the world personally... it's not you specifically that frustrates, angers or depresses me.

I could explain why that is, I'm hesitant to put it on this particular public forum because my unfiltered perspective would not be helpful for anyone who needs help feeling less depressed. Therefore it would be inappropriate.

So, I just urge you to take my word for it that you are not personally responsible.

Feeling "Helpless" is not my problem. If I genuinely felt that I could do nothing then the "fight" in me would disappear. The anger would be pointless, the frustration would cease to exist, it would all be out of my hands. I am not afraid of dying so I would just calmly accept my fate. Helpless would honestly be kind of a relief.

I feel deeply simply because the entitlement some people feel to take by force that which belongs to someone else is something I would do anything to prevent them from experiencing. You included.