I think my 30 year marriage is over

[tim55]

Hi every body,

This is my first post and I'm not sure if this is the right place for what is going on. I guess I'll just put up my story and see what happens.

I was discovered betraying my wife of 30 plus years through the use of internet pornography, by my 18 year old daughter. That was about 4 months ago. Many would say I was addicted, I'm still not sure if that is right or not. Since then I have done pretty well dealing with that side of the problem. Through some counselling, reconnecting with my faith and involvement with a 12 step program, I am "sober" since discovery. I have lied and deceived even after discovery trying to minimise what I had done. The full truth all came out about 2 weeks ago.

My wife and I have been on a roller coaster about what will happen with our marriage. At the moment it looks as though our marriage will end. I am currently living out of the family home and pretty well every interaction I have with my wife upsets her peace. I don't think she is on the road to any healing; that is now just about out of my hands. Any suggestion I make is rejected vehemently.

Its now becoming clear that I will not be spending Christmas with my family. Having me in the house is just the catalyst for my wife's pain and hurt, leading to anger that just spills over our adult children. So I expect to stay away.

I have no family where I am living, although, I have cut myself off from them. My father was a verbally abusive man who introduced me to pornography. I have some support through a church, however, he will be out of the city from tomorrow and has a family of his own to care for. So I am staring at the likelihood of being alone for Christmas. One of the characteristics of an addict is pushing people away and I have done that, with no real friends at all.

There are some things I know I can do. I will be attending Church on Christmas Day, possibly with the family, but I'm not expecting that. I guess I am looking for suggestions about dealing with a weeks worth of days by myself as work will shut it's doors. I will be tackling my addictive issues separately with my counsellor. I'm looking for some general suggestions.

Thanks

[tim55]

Hi Tony WK,

I think the phone conversation I just had with my wife illustrates what is going on. My wife rang and asked a question that compared my life at present with a period I was overseas. While the timing was not great, driving to work, I was not fully present in the conversation and said something that contradicted something I had told her before. Then I neither acknowledged the contradiction nor apologised. That is not speculation as you put it that is evidence of my lying, which despite my efforts is continuing.

As for the broken arm. It was not my addiction that drove her anger on Christmas night, but how I acted. I am not accepting the blame for everything, but I will accept responsibility for the hurt and anger I cause. I still question if I should have stopped her before she hit me. So I will accept some responsibility for what has happened.

My wife has faults, I know that. I am still trying to understand her whole role in what has happened. But she is not responsible for my addiction. A word I can more readily say after my 12 step meeting last night, when we read some literature that pointed out somebody who has risked their employment and livelihood to follow what they want is an addict. I have done that.

However, my main flaw is that I am a liar. That is the biggest hurdle in my relationship with my wife. She will not believe anything I say, truth or not and I have told so many lies and my wife is looking for so much detail she has caught me in contradictions, which have lead to very ugly conversations and halted any progress towards reconciliation.

There is something you have said about forgiveness and reconciliation that I would like to touch on. Reconciliation is certainly not possible without forgiveness. However, forgiveness does not immediately mean reconciliation. I have forgiven my father for what he started in my life, but I have not reconciled with him and don't expect to in the near future, if at all.

Tim

[tim55]

Hi Paul,

Thank you for the support you provide me and all those who you speak with hear.

I have found some help from the counsellors I have been talking with. I guess, a little frustratingly, I've found the pace at which we have been progressing to be slow. But I'm pretty sure just about everyone of their patients might say that. At the moment, I don't think I will be going back to the guy I have been talking with. There has been very little progress, aside from just being able to talk with him. He is very much focused on the addiction and without wanting to sound arrogant, I think I have a handle on that. I am seeking a sponsor in my 12 step program and believe "working the steps" is going to help a great deal.

What I have to deal with is my truthfulness.  Once we start delving down into the exact when, where and how. Then things get very ugly. I hide things, I just want to be free of it all.

But one of the ongoing things I have to deal with is living in a sexualised world, so I am happy to talk about what is and is not acceptable about looking at members of the opposite sex. As far as somebody trying to recover from this form of addiction is concerned, this is an important factor.

Thank you for your kind thoughts Paul,

Tim

[tim55]

Hi Geoff,

I'd like to make a brief comment concerning ogling.

As far as a sex addict is concerned, ogling is "visual drinking". It is either a trigger or something they have done to feed the addiction. I certainly have.

Looking at a woman, acknowledging she is attractive is natural. Yes men are visual beings. BUT more than that can be very wrong. Aside from the woman who loves that type of attention, very few women would appreciate being ogled.

As far as I'm concerned, looking might be mother nature, more than that is not natural but something our sexualised world just tells us is okay. It is not.

Geoff, I thank you for all of your support on this thread, I just have a very different view to you on this subject. But as I've said before, opposing views aren't a bad thing.

Tim

[tim55]

Bindi,

Thanks for sharing your personal experience, I can see the difference now and will do some research into complex PTSD. There are a few things that ring true in what you have said.

I can be very withdrawn and detached, but I have been pretty emotional in some of my counselling sessions and other times during the past 4 and a half months.

Like you I'm not sure what a diagnosis might mean. The cynical part of my might turn around and say it would be another path of expensive treatment. However, I will look at it more and ask the next time I talk to a counsellor. I will also have a look at the forum here a beyondblue.

Thanks again

Tim

[bindi-QLD]

Hi Tim, Do you think it would be crossing any lines, if you were describe your wife a little more to this group who care about you? I'm unsure if that would be appropriate.

I sometimes feel torn, because I don't know her, even in a general sense,including her personality type. Sometimes I think Geoff and Tony and Paul are right, when they give you advice on how to move on and be strong. Tony's really good at `male empowerment' type advice, I have noticed and appreciated some parts of that. Geoff has an amazing amount of heart, and I feel he doesn't like people to feel shame. Really good person right there.

Where I'm at, is I just can't get a feel for your wife. I definitely understand how pain brings out the worst in people. Beyond that, I wonder sometimes, is she good for you, how did she behave towards you before all this happened?

I just wonder, I would totally respect it if you wanted to keep that private. If you do want to discuss her, maybe some general things would be ok? I feel I could think about it, with a little more info.

[geoff]

hi Tim, I agree with Bindi here, I don't get a 'feel for your wife' and 'is she good for you', to me you are trying to reach the impossible.

It's normal for a male to look at a women, or a women to look at another woman or a male to look at another male that happens all the time, we aren't robots its mother nature, it is natural, so if you go down to the beach, let's say it's Bondi beach on a hot day, you can't have blinkers on and not look at other people, that's absolutely impossible.

I'm sorry but even if she accepted you back then how long would it last, you are chasing something that won't happen. Geoff.

[bindi-QLD]

Hi Geoff,

I agree with you about `noticing' beauty. Oggling is different. It communicates sexual desire for the person being oggled; it is humiliating to a partner and often turns women off you. Is that how you want to be appraised by women ? Do you think who you are inside is worthless unless you are pretty, young, and have 6 pack abs? I hope not. You are worth a lot more than that. And so are women.

Women notice male beauty, we are even more attuned to appreciating beauty than men. Some of us simply don't value it. We glance away naturally because we like men for who they are on the inside.

[tim55]

Hi Bindi,

My wife is an incredibly loving and generous woman, the youngest of 6 children, bought up by her father and his sister. Her mother died when my wife was a baby. My wife's father was an incredibly upright man who my wife admired greatly. We are both from a religious upbringing, but I lost my faith at one point, my wife helped me find it again, but not to the extent I have refound it after my discovery. We have 5 children and my wife has done more than her share of the raising of them.

My wife has been incredibly good for me. She has done nothing but love me. We were incredible friends, we started that way long before there was a romance. The level of anger and rage that she has shown me since my discovery is far and away beyond anything she has ever displayed towards anybody before. The idea of her wanting to physically hurt people, bashing, scratching or biting them and using the language she has toward me is completely foreign. Our children are worried about who she becomes when the rage rises towards me.

So to answer the question that has been asked. My wife is acting very very much out of character. She is has been very very good to me prior to this. She now feels her world has been completely turned upside down by what she has learnt about me, she considers all men to be scum, with the exception of our son, who is an incredible young man. She used to love marriage, we prepared couples for married for our church and mentored them in their early years. She is now telling our daughters not to marry. She is questioning her faith.

If the thought is that what I am seeing from her is normal behaviour, please know that it is not. This is behaviour directly attributable to her discovering what I have done, how she views that and the lying I have done to keep my past hidden.

So as I have said before. I will be strong and move on, when I know that there is absolutely no hope. But the woman I love is broken, due to my actions, actions I have now renounced. I would dearly love to see her in a lot better place, married to me or not. I think at the moment it is too early to answer that question.

[tim55]

Hi Geoff,

I've posted some general description of my wife. Lets just say the woman you have been hearing about is not the one I married or have been married to for a long time. My wife is one of strong opinions and works in the details.

I don't know what our future will be, but I do know I have to at least try to find out if there is a future. I'm not ready to walk away now.

Geoff, you are going to have to trust me when I tell, it is possible to go to places including the beach. See the beauty that is there but not spend your time ogling women. You don't have to keep looking at them, it possible to turn away and go about your business.

Tim

[Birdy77]

Hi Tim and all,

I hope it's ok for my thoughts on this line of discussion? I'm usually just a reader on this thread, so i hope it's ok.

I think there is a line between looking at and appreciating beauty in people and sexualising that looking, which is how i interpret 'ogling'.

For arguments sake: If the way you are looking at someone is not how you would like a man (say) to be looking at your daughter/granddaughter/wife then maybe you might take a step back to reconsider your intentions/respectfulness. ?? Just a thought.

With deep respect for all here.

🌻birdy