I think my 30 year marriage is over

[tim55]

Hi every body,

This is my first post and I'm not sure if this is the right place for what is going on. I guess I'll just put up my story and see what happens.

I was discovered betraying my wife of 30 plus years through the use of internet pornography, by my 18 year old daughter. That was about 4 months ago. Many would say I was addicted, I'm still not sure if that is right or not. Since then I have done pretty well dealing with that side of the problem. Through some counselling, reconnecting with my faith and involvement with a 12 step program, I am "sober" since discovery. I have lied and deceived even after discovery trying to minimise what I had done. The full truth all came out about 2 weeks ago.

My wife and I have been on a roller coaster about what will happen with our marriage. At the moment it looks as though our marriage will end. I am currently living out of the family home and pretty well every interaction I have with my wife upsets her peace. I don't think she is on the road to any healing; that is now just about out of my hands. Any suggestion I make is rejected vehemently.

Its now becoming clear that I will not be spending Christmas with my family. Having me in the house is just the catalyst for my wife's pain and hurt, leading to anger that just spills over our adult children. So I expect to stay away.

I have no family where I am living, although, I have cut myself off from them. My father was a verbally abusive man who introduced me to pornography. I have some support through a church, however, he will be out of the city from tomorrow and has a family of his own to care for. So I am staring at the likelihood of being alone for Christmas. One of the characteristics of an addict is pushing people away and I have done that, with no real friends at all.

There are some things I know I can do. I will be attending Church on Christmas Day, possibly with the family, but I'm not expecting that. I guess I am looking for suggestions about dealing with a weeks worth of days by myself as work will shut it's doors. I will be tackling my addictive issues separately with my counsellor. I'm looking for some general suggestions.

Thanks

[tim55]

Well that all ended badly.

I was invited over to the family home to exchange presents this evening and things were going well enough.

But in conversation we headed back to things I may have done 12 months ago. My wife surmised I may have left a gift exchange and gone and looked at pornography. I'm not in the position to say yes or no. It was likely, so I cannot deny doing it. Also I am not the most empathetic man, I asked how my wife was going and listened, but I cannot just see or discern her exact moods or thinking. But when asked how I am going I answered. I've found some of today challenging, and said so. My wife told me she has gone back to some dating sites and put a profile back up. I was downcast and said something along those lines. This is seen as me being totally selfish.

I care about my wife and how she is coping with what I have done, but she does not believe that I do. The conversation about my past, ended up with me answering a question that enraged her to the point where I was being hit, I did nothing but stand and take the blows, but has resulted in my wife hurting her arm. I don't know how badly as my daughter told me to leave. As I was driving out I could see my wife at the window giving me the finger.

I care deeply about her, but cannot reach her. Everything I say turns to shit and blows back into my face. I have done terrible things, that have hurt her so deeply. However, I don't want to dwell in the filth I have previously readily accepted. But my wife is not ready to move past this shadow. I hate being back in that place.

I just don't know how to help her. I know I have been selfish in the past, but I know she wants to hear what I am thinking and feeling. It seems like telling her is being selfish and only thinking about me. I'm so frustrated with things at the moment. I do not want to be selfish, but seem to fail everytime I open my mouth.

[Croix]

Dear Tim~

The first thing is I'm glad to see appearing in these posts is a sense of proportion over the porn addiction. There is no doubt it was a thoroughly harmful thing, however as Bindi-Qld has said it can in some circumstances be understandable and is also a situation some relationships can recover from.

We all learn about ourselves as we get older, and the less desirable side can act as a spur to improve - as you are doing and succeeding, which is admirable.

At this stage I'm not sure that you are going to be able to talk with you wife as you might have in the past. She is obviously most upset and reacting accordingly. The conversions between you are loaded, and any responses you make can be seen in a most unfavorable light. She may wish to hurt you physically, and also mentally be talking of the dating site.

When she is upset of course the family will take sides, and that can do more harm.

I think Bindi was on the right track in suggesting there may be underlying reasons you had the sex life you did and it might well be something you would want to work through now with professional help. At present you have found out the consequences of the addiction, but not the reasons.

As for your wife and family. If it was me I would not seek out contact, even though that is a most painful road, but assist you daughter and see what happens.

You have been told you are a good man, I agree. You may be floundering after a mistake, but your love and concern and willingness to admit error all shows that.

I hope the new year holds promise for you

Croix

[geoff]

hi Timm, could it be that your sex drive wasn't satisfied by your wife, at times yes, but not as you wanted it to be.
What stops a guy from going to an all nightclub with his mates, married or not and how many secrets does a person hold back from letting anyone know starting as a young kid and then continuing on in a relationship, remember everyone has bad luggage they carry with them afraid to tell anyone, I'm sure I do and I'm sure everyone else has.
Once your daughter begins dating and going steady she will tell her partner with the result that the effect could well be halved or even more to the extent that your relationship will continue.
There are things that my sons found out when I was depressed, now it means nothing to them and my r/ship with them is terrific.
If your wife has put up a profile of herself on a dating site, then once someone tells her a lie it will end, so I find it very difficult for her to have someone else.
Once the kids move out from home then your chances will improve, you have admitted your faults and stopped an addiction, so you have done everything possible, all you can do is wait, and that's the worse part. Geoff.

[bindi-QLD]

Oh dear, Tim, I didn't expect your day to become abusive, I'm really sorry that happened. Your wife's pain is very understandable, but abusing you physically, mentally, and emotionally crosses a lot of lines. Tim, is there any history of this in your relationship? Think hard about that.

Some thoughts that came to mind: I've had people close to me at times who demanded `truth', but were really demanding `control' and more leverage for manipulating my self worth. My mother and my most abusive boyfriend were two of those people. My `Honesty' usually was used by them to re-frame me in negative light, to justify their abuse or cheating, or to outright attack my self worth. I am usually honest, friendly and open by nature so that happened a lot-until much later in life, when I recognized it as a technique to shame me, reduce my self worth, and highly abusive.

I have a few feelings about Truth that came with time and experiences like that. Truth is a slippery thing, because human minds frequently protect themselves from painful realities via denial. Truth is therefore only deeply meaningful if a person is truthful with themselves. A lot of what people share as `truth' is really just half formed thoughts and denial.

More importantly, should anyone who demands access to our inner world of vulnerable feelings and thought, be entitled to it? Should they earn our trust first? Does a partner deserve that access for being our partner, or does intimacy get created as trust increases, and stall when your partner's mind is too judgmental or closed off, or you feel they want to control or harm you?

You're right Tim, holding part of yourself back can stall intimacy and perhaps you did it unnecessarily, just out of habit. But perhaps you had good reason, consider that too. I'm not condoning lying or excessive use of pornography, but I do believe self protection can have a legitimate place, even in marriage. I consider it my responsibility to earn my partner's trust. He was stomped on, dominated and shamed by his father and mother, he has a lot to protect. I regard it as a precious gift when he opens up to me, not an entitlement.

I agree with the others about your daughter. My Dad was a pornography user but my mother frequently cheated and abandoned the family, was controlling, abusive. I think we took her side as children because she was the scary one and the focus was off us for a moment. But by early adulthood, I think all of us sympathized with Dad.

[tim55]

Hi Croix,

Thanks for the thoughtful words.

One of the things you may not be aware of was an episode of sexual abuse as a young boy. An episode I had not put much importance to, but now I am wondering more so.

I really don't know what I'm going to do as far as contact is concerned. I will back off a little again, but I remain very worried about her physical and mental health.

I'd like to think that I am a good man, but I question that a great deal these days. I'm accused of being selfish, and uncaring by my wife. I'm not good at empathy, but every word at the moment seems to be interpreted as me being a selfish bastard.

The end result of my wife hitting me last night was that she has a suspected broken arm, and was off to get xrays. She got back from hospital a 2am this morning. Its terrible she has hurt herself badly. I saw her briefly this morning as I was picking up my daughter to take her to work.

I was reminded that I said nothing last night when she pointed out what I might have done last year. That has been my way, to say very little when I have been or, as in this case, probably been in the wrong. I was expected to acknowledge how incredibly hurtful and painful that realisation would have been for my wife.

There were times in our marriage my wife thought I was homosexual, not being interested in her for long periods. That of course has been recast in light of my pornography and internet fantasy sex life. My wife believes I didn't want her because I had millions of other women.

I am working through the reasons for my use of filth. At this stage this is pointing to a bit of a perfect storm. A verbally abusive father, one that had soft porn in the house, page 3 girls in the paper and 70's TV like Number 96. I'm trying to work out what part my sexual abuse had in the mix. Then joining the Navy for 29 years. I'm a mess and I'm trying to work that out. Many have said to not be worried about the marriage and get myself sorted first.

I'm trying to do that, but early in the peace my wife gave me six months before she would do anything permanent about the marriage. That was four months ago, so I am worried about the marriage.

Sorry that is a bit of a ramble.

[tim55]

geoff said:hi Timm, could it be that your sex drive wasn't satisfied by your wife, at times yes, but not as you wanted it to be.
What stops a guy from going to an all nightclub with his mates, married or not and how many secrets does a person hold back from letting anyone know starting as a young kid and then continuing on in a relationship, remember everyone has bad luggage they carry with them afraid to tell anyone, I'm sure I do and I'm sure everyone else has.
Once your daughter begins dating and going steady she will tell her partner with the result that the effect could well be halved or even more to the extent that your relationship will continue.
There are things that my sons found out when I was depressed, now it means nothing to them and my r/ship with them is terrific.
If your wife has put up a profile of herself on a dating site, then once someone tells her a lie it will end, so I find it very difficult for her to have someone else.
Once the kids move out from home then your chances will improve, you have admitted your faults and stopped an addiction, so you have done everything possible, all you can do is wait, and that's the worse part. Geoff.

Hi Geoff,

One of the aspects of my wife's make up she is very open and I don't think there is any baggage I don't know about. Then she finds out of have been hiding so much. She has caught me involved with pornography before and I've told her I would let her know if I was tempted again. I didn't, I just went and did. So I have wasted the trust she had in me.

One of the things about my wife going to dating sights, is that I am frightened on a few counts. One that she will get herself hurt in some way. I'm really concerned that she might think this is the best and does not actually recover from the trauma I've caused, just ruining another relationship. The other is that she will find somebody better than me and I'll be gone.

I'm not sure what will happen with my children, I can wait and build those relationships, but I really want to save my marriage and I think the clock is really ticking on that and I'm back at square one.

My wife deserves peace and happiness. I would dearly be able to provide that to her.

[tim55]

Hi bindi,

I thought we had got past the abuse but that is not the case, now my wife has a suspected broken arm, waiting on xrays. That will affect a family beach holiday later in January. My wife is a very strong person, she is also the youngest of 6 so in an argument she goes on the offensive. My history means I will go quiet and hide. That is not a winning combination. Now in this situation, it is very hard for me to stand up and correct what she believes. When I try it is not being heard.

Some thoughts that came to mind: I've had people close to me at times who demanded `truth', but were really demanding `control' and more leverage for manipulating my self worth. My mother and my most abusive boyfriend were two of those people. My `Honesty' usually was used by them to re-frame me in negative light, to justify their abuse or cheating, or to outright attack my self worth. I am usually honest, friendly and open by nature so that happened a lot-until much later in life, when I recognized it as a technique to shame me, reduce my self worth, and highly abusive.

I'm not sure how I can not answer the questions and honestly. To say nothing is seen as evasion and lying. I find myself caught between not saying something, which just makes things bad. Or telling the truth which is then used to beat me with. I need to be honest, I need it for my recovery and to put my past behind me. But it is hard when things like that happen

I have spent a long time protecting myself and hiding a terrible set of secrets. My wife deserved intimacy from me as her husband, she didn't really get that. So I'm trying to give her all that I can. But I do not believe for a moment that she had not done enough to earn my trust over the years. That could be never said of her.

I have been hiding things, a life in the military will teach you how to keep secrets as well. Lots of reasons I can think of why I held things back. The excessive use of porn, is abhorrent, now. What I have done means my wife, my children and I are all in a mess because of what I have done.

My daughter will grow and learn and make her own opinions. That is all I can ask or expect of her. That and doing what she loves and being happy. I worry.

[white knight]

Hi Tim,

I have expected your situation with your wife would deteriorate.

No matter what, true love is a two way thing. You keep saying "I care for my wife" but if she is unforgiving and doesnt care for you...then would she care for you?

Hypothetically, if you met another woman and a few months into your relationship you declared your addiction and your abuse as a child then she held your hand and fully understood. ..how would you feel?.

Ive felt such contrasts in relationships.

At the moment your world is crumbling when...it can be your oyster...

Tony WK

[tim55]

Hi Tony WK,

There may well be a time in the future when that happens, if that is what is meant to be.

I'm not ready to do that yet. Its not going to be easy, but I want to try. This is by far the worst issue our marriage has faced, and yes, my fault. I am not ready to walk away from 31 years and five children yet.

I know you are talking a hypothetical, but I can not see that eventuality in the future.

[bindi-QLD]

Hi Tim,

Thank you for your frank replies, and for sharing a lot about your past, I know its not easy to dredge it all up. Its easy to see why openess does not come to you easily. I don't have experience with sexual abuse, but if someone harmed you during the act of sex as a child, it could perhaps explain your instinct for experiencing sexuality alone. I would suggest the porn may just facilitate that solitude. That is something you have decided to change, and I believe you can.

I appreciate your points about your wife being trustworthy and deserving of openness and more sexual intimacy. But that's not where you are at, your feelings surrounding trust and intimacy were shaped from your past, and may be a part of you to some extent. You are still lovable, and still deserve love.

You can only promise your wife to do your best to meet her needs, to work on giving her what she says she wants. Be realistic though. You can explain why you are the way you are, if you feel she will hear you. That might help. You can humbly ask her to accept the things that happened to you that were beyond your control as a child, and accept you the way you are, and maybe you can only meet her half way.

If she cannot truly accept the man you are , in some ways that is her failing. Or you could just put it down to incompatibility. Its not your job to be someone who is not you, you don't deserve a life of being chastised. Its your job to be the best `you' you can be.