Getting to know you...or is that me?

[Just Sara]

After more than 20 years of trying to work out what was wrong with me; and this continues, I found the closer I got to being well, the more isolated I felt. The main point of contention has been seeing myself through the eyes of others. When I began trying to identify myself as independent, all hell broke loose. Conflict on all sides, especially within myself. I sometimes want so much to live my life ignorant of what I've learned. Becoming a self aware individual has it's freedom, but it also has a back-lash. For me that means seeing others for who they really are and learning to walk away from abusive people and situations, even if they're family. Becoming who I thought others wanted me to be, has defined me my whole life. I became a fervent observer of human behaviour and interaction to avoid the 'inevitable', beginning when I was only a toddler. Little people tend to blame themselves for the actions of others. So I trained myself to be who I thought they wanted me to be. This didn't work of coarse, but the damage was done and I became a reflection of other damaged people.

I asked myself a few weeks ago; "Who am I in the core of my own heart, my own truth?" and closed my eyes. I saw myself as a little girl in a baby blue nightie swirling around the yard at dawn on a warm Summer's morning. The memory was vivid and I smiled to myself as I watched. I danced and hummed to myself enjoying the light breeze on my face without a care in the world. Then things changed to another scene where I was a couple of years older. I was again dancing in front of the TV when Sesame Street was on. It was a classic jazz number. I felt my heart grow warm and seemed to glow brighter as I reflected on these memories. It was music and dance that defined me, my joy and happiness. I've always been great at event planning, especially parties. And; music has to be the centre of activities. 

I shed many tears that day as the realisation hit. I had been ignoring myself and pandering to others as a matter of coarse because it felt normal/safe. Now that I'm trying to define and create a new me, the anxiety, panic and depression has morphed. Being an individual seems lonely and difficult. Many changes have come about since my mental health declined, but I suspect it is stepping out into the unknown to find 'me', a courageous little girl dancing her way out of my own heart.

[Cornstarch]

I can't reply properly tonight Sara, but will tomorrow!

Co-dependecny, which is really just another word for addiction and emptiness where it involves more than one person, certainly may have caused a little CLUNK or BLIP last night, but that can change!

Until then my lovely, crank the little Christian Lez from Tennessee Julien Baker, 'Sprained Ankle'.

Sara has a sprained ankle 😞

Croix please hang around, we're not scary are we? We want as many voices as possible, you haven't intruded on anything you've contributed, and I loved it.

Jack Cornfield xx

[Guest_322]

Hi Sara,

Clearly, I think you really like this woman. She sounds like she has many wonderful traits, which I'm happy to hear 😊

But this is unchartered territory for you because, aside from this being your first date with a woman (right?), she seems to have shown empathy and kindness, which is something that you're not quite used to. You have no script for an empathetic response so you froze (btw I feel like this might be one of my talking-out-of-my-arse moments so feel free to jump in and tell me that I've gotten it all wrong).

As for being "deserving" of her or not, I feel Croix had some great insight. I mean, I realise a lot of it stems from your history, PTSD, etc so feeling "deserving" of a potentially loving relationship/partner probably isn't going to happen overnight. In Jack Cornfield's words, you gotta rewire.

Can I just add one thing (if that's okay)? This woman is sounding amazing from what you've told us, and for that, I'm happy for you.

I'm hesitant to say this as I'm worried it will upset you...but I've noticed that you have only had 1 date (right?) with her yet you seem to have elevated her to virtually demigod status in your description. I mean, people put their best foot forward on first dates (my ex boyfriend anyone?)

Now, I'm not saying that she isn't wonderful or anything like that but I am suggesting maybe give it more time before deciding how you feel about her (?) As Croix said

A measure of that person's wisdom, worth and affection will brobably be found in how she follows up having met you.

Of course I hope she proves to be as amazing as she has been on your first date. But maybe just give it more time (?) Sorry, if I've said anything out of line. I'm not sure if I expressed what I had in mind very well.

Jack Cornfield...your counsel is needed (when you get the chance) before Dottie digs herself into an even bigger hole!

Anyways, here's a big hug from me to you, Sara.

Stay amaze!

Dottie xxxxxxx

P.S. Croix, I don't think you're intruding at all (not that this is my thread). I also loved your contribution btw!

[Croix]

Dear Cornstarch

Thank you for the reassurance and invite to remain. No you are not scary (well I guess no more than anyone who tells the truth)

Actually even after a couple of years I still find it a little disconcerting to see the level of trust and personal revelation shown in so many of these threads. While I am intellectually aware they are literally open to the world it's partly an ingrained sense of respect for privacy that makes me hesitate on occasions to join in.

In addition I sometimes I feel I'm looking at the most delicate of butterfly's and even a single breath may make it start away or change its course.

My best wishes

Croix (who has nowadays overcome his unreasonable sensitivity to people saying 'oink':)

[Just Sara]

Dear Croix; (is this pronounced Crow?)

Firstly, you're so welcome to contribute to this thread. Especially if words such as;

'I sometimes feel I'm looking at the most delicate of butterfly's and even a single breath may make it start away or change its course' fill the page.

...just beautiful!

In your post to me on the 'Comedy Relief' thread, you made me feel a sense of accomplishment and appreciation. On here I have a place to vent or blurt or grieve or hurt knowing my peep's are here to listen. Not as a CC, but as a fellow sufferer.

Your words hold value and intent, so this space is a welcome mat to greet you anytime you feel the need. As Corny and Dottie say, it has become 'our' thread.

I thank you for your words of encouragement; I spend much time trying to assist others, and here I have 'me' time to be the person crying out. D-Girl and CornSpirit have stuck by me thru thick and thin, and their words of wisdom and support will never go unnoticed or unappreciated. You are a worthy addition to our world of confusion, dysfunction and recovery.

Your comment re 'follow up' has already been realised, as I received a msg from her saying it took every ounce of strength to restrain her desires and is so looking forward to our next meeting. I'm glad she doesn't live in my area because this gives me a chance to breath and evaluate 'me' more than her.

So thanks again for the support and interest you've shown...it's appreciated beyond words.

Sara xoxo

[Just Sara]

Dearest Dottie;

Your words hold true and as usual have hit on an important aspect of my date night. How could I find such amazement looking back at me? No, there's no demigod status, I'm just in a new place wondering how I could be so lucky to find those qualities in someone. But I could understand your comments considering the short post I made.

We got on like a house on fire. We're perfectly matched in many ways and this made for an interesting and totally enjoyable night. Our childhoods were similar as well as our outlook on life. I did disclose my PTSD and some past trauma's, and to my amazement, she listened and came back with understanding and acknowledgement. She said my anxiety and responses were 'normal' under the circumstances. Sigh...

You don't get that every day from a non sufferer. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that she was a mirror for me. I'm usually the one supporting someone else. It was a role reversal of sorts; this threw me. I saw me in her. The tenderness on her face when lying next to me was a shock...soft, alluring and nurturing; it so freaked me out! She was showing me what I'd been giving to others. (I'm close to tears)

My response was to run and hide in my past normality where I felt (stupidly) safe where there was 'fight' in me! I interpreted this behaviour as cowardliness and as Corny said; emptiness and addiction to co dependency. I'm forgiving of my actions and thoughts, as they represent the challenge of change and transition...again Corny's words. (Legend!)

This woman has come into my life to assist me thru that transition. Her patience and gentleness is foreign, but not unappreciated. I've been asking the Universe for such a person; it's now time to face myself, and the change it brings is a welcome concept.

Time to work on me; my confidence/self image and to let my guard down just a little.

Love you guys!

Sara xoxo

[Cornstarch]

Hey Sara,
As far as I am concerned all I can see are positive steps, growth and occurrences that you have to face if you want to or not, and really, are quite inevitable considering the amount of time you’ve been in an adrenalin fuelled chase with your self.

In your threads you always answer your own questions so I don’t have anything new or un-thought of to contribute. Most people during the course of their lives will struggle with some sort of impulse control problem/addiction, if not forever, at least for a period. It doesn’t have to be alcohol and drugs, it can be relationships, work, food, shopping, sex, exercise, dieting, Internet surfing, gaming, whatever. All of us want to numb pain or at least put off facing it for a while.

An empathic co-dependent is a narcissists perfect partner, and it is incredible how adept they are at scouting them out and keeping them. If they both have wobbly impulse control with substances staying together despite the constant breakups will be a breeze.

With regard to the sexlessness, I would be very careful in assuming that what happened Saturday night is indicative of there being no hope that it may actually pass and turn into something great. Things that start well don't necessarily end well.

The opposite is also very common, especially with childhood sexual violation, where their ‘Saturday night’ is expressed as relationship depression. Some couples get as far as a few years into their marriage and then WHACK, relationship depression rears its ugly head as sexual abuse ghosts start flooding back. Think about it, our loop of arousal actually had a beginning, and not everyone, but a lot of people, at least have some tiny memory of feeling safe, or at least a sensory visceral memory of life ‘before the abuse’. Finding a secure loving partner has now catapulted their nervous system to the beginning of their loop of arousal, and they completely shut down because after safety comes terror. They will project their disgust upon themselves, their partner or both, because being in this place of safety and knowing what followed when they were little, makes them feel weak, repulsed and absolutely pathetic. We all secretly despise that little girl/boy and believe she/he got precisely what we deserved.

All of this came up for me in my first 5 years of meditation practice locked in my bedroom by myself, so much for meditation helping you be relax!

Is this women seeking a relationship or just exploring also?

[Croix]

Thanks Sara,

> (is this pronounced Crow?) It's pronounced "kwah" or "quah - or just "friend"

Nothing much to say except it's past time you felt the life-giving balm of a good person. Experienced and inexperienced, or inexperienced together, all can be wonderful, as you know it's the person's basic nature that counts.

Thanks to you too Dottie 123 both for the welcome and also showing me how to broach a most sensitive subject as was necessary for a friend. It must have been hard to find just the right words - which you did.

I've met and married twice and on first meeting both were indeed raised to 'Goddess' status by me (it was 25 years before the 1st returned to the heavens and the 2nd is still putting up with me after 20).

I'm trying to say a little enthusiasm and blurred vision (& my partners must have been positively myopic) is probably to be expected, part of the magic, and also there are wonderful people tucked away in the world.

Cornstarch I'm amazed by your technical analysis - it must have been some bedroom:)

As I'm not sure what co-dependancy means you might care to amplify at some stage. At first blush I would have thought it meant 2 persons depending on each other - a formula that has worked well for me - and if I can say so, my partners too.

Anyway my best wishes to you all

Croix

[Just Sara]

Welcome back CornDog!

I've been eagerly awaiting your reply and as expected your words give enlightenment and wisdom. Can I just say though, they can sometimes be on the 'warning' scale which scares me a little. I've spent the past 20 yrs analysing myself and others to death trying to stay safe. This seems to be what comes across from you...protective of your friend...me. How wonderful to have this, especially on BB, a place of safety and protection. Thankyou C-Girl..

When I cried out for help, it 'was' the child in me...you're correct. But eventually the adult took over to rationalise and recover. This process has taken me ages to instil and I'm proud of my achievement. So grasping your pre childhood sexual assault concept was easier. It makes perfect sense and gives me something to relate to if it occurs again.

Update: 'X' (my beautiful woman) has written the most warm and tender email to me. In it, she see's me as strong and wise; 'experienced' instead of 'damaged'. Talk about foreplay!! Ha ha

You asked what X's intentions were; she stated she can't have a full on relationship due to personal circumstances and the distance between us. That's fine with me! I have enough to deal with in my own head. However, her email gets closer to wanting more. Even so, my expectations and intent are 'slow and steady'.

Croix - the beauty and compassion of your words are received with pure joy. It's so nice to read of blissful unions that 'work'. (I'm also sorry for your loss..)

To answer your question about co dependency; the simple answer would be to imagine a little girl being terrorised by the same person she relies on for - food, clothing and general protection from the elements.

She can't run away or hide. So she lives with it finding ways to 'survive' like pretending it's normal, living on adrenaline due to being hyper-vigilant, loving the 'monster', using food to stuff down the bad feelings and have some good one's to stay sane. When you consider living this way for the whole of her childhood and then beginning an adult life, patterns will take precedence.

So seeking out, as Corny says, a narcissist to match the empathic nature of the victim in her is normal. And so the cycle continues...

Dottie - I love it when you tell it as you see it! It's important you're true to yourself.

Much, much love and gratitude to you all...

Sara xoxoxoxo

[Cornstarch]

Do you know what Croix it was the best bedroom ever. I miss that crazy house. I could only ever meditate with the bedroom door locked, even just closing my eyes and attempting to feel anything filled my nervous system with so much panic, that I asked my locksmith mate to defy the real estate and put a lock on the door for me.

The grief of losing and burying a partner must of been unreal. And long. Grief is really long, and washes over you at the strangest moments. But as you say there certainly are wonderful people hiding away in this world and it sounds like the two of you found one another! Gush.

Sara, should I call myself Corn Star today? So happy to hear that there was no sprained ankle after all and just the understandable nervous system unfoldings that happen when we try something new. How delightful!!

Isn't it curious, bizarre and a strange brain moment how we label ourselves as 'damaged', while other people see us as something completely different, despite feeling like absolute crap. When I was in hospital I had some women say to me, "you know Corny you're a really interesting person you've had an incredible life". And I was sitting there thinking, "are you frigging kidding me, interesting! this ain't feeling 'interesting' right now in this here bodee, this is feeling like torture". Interesting is for museums. Each to their own I suppose.

She remains curious Sara and certainly does not sound like she has been turned off whatsoever! I suppose our 'adult' and 'child' self are turned on and off frequently, and we yo-yo up and down when trauma intersects interpersonal relationships, which basically is every single day! But the beaut place you are at now, is that the distance, duration and time between them has shrunk significantly, because you are so self aware and certain of your truth.

I'm just so excited for you Sara whatever happens, it sounds like you guys are on the same page with it's evolution so to speak, and both parties aren't really looking to launch head first into a full on relationship. Two single, consenting adults out there in the world doing their thung. Woo hoo!

Corny xx

[Croix]

Dear Cornstarch, Sara and Dottie

Thanks for your replies, if you don’t mind I’m in the mood to rabbit on for a few moments - it must be the atmosphere here. I beg your indulgence

It's true Cornstarch that losing and burying the closest person on earth is completely, utterly overpowering (in fact during the burial I hid in a coffee shop away from everyone and then disappeared for the rest of the day)

Looking at it another way however it’s an indication of how great a partnership can be

My very speedy re-marriage was the key to my recovery

It’s curious but of all the monumentally unpleasant things that have happened to me it’s only the loss of my career as a policeman that still really causes deep fresh grief and sense of failure – go figure

Even the circumstances and incidents whilst serving that made me ill can mostly be viewed with a certain sense of distance nowadays (unless of course I’m nightmare-ing or actually in the throes of reliving something, a treat that now seldom happens)

The loss of my first wife after an 18-month illness, my daughter in law to leukemia, my disinheritance from my family all have now been overlaid by fresh events, occupations and people until I can view those things with just sadness, regret and a little detachment

(In case you are wondering I came from a very British family that did not approve of my forthcoming marriage)

There’s no real reason for these meanderings, except possibly to tell Sara that whatever happens you can thank X for telling you the truth “she see's me as strong and wise; experienced instead of damaged”. I hope with all my might that the 'whatever happens' is long-term, mutually satisfying & supportive and fun.

I’m losing concentration again folks so I’m off

Thanks for listening. My best wishes
Croix.