Animal cruelty, climate change, monoculture...the list goes on.

[ChrissyStar]

I feel hopeless and have decided not to have children because of the state of the world (why would I wish to bring a child into this when I myself, do not like to live here?). Does anyone else feel the same?

[Peppermintbach]

Hi lovely birdy and all,

Thank you so much for the beautifully understanding and comforting post. I really appreciate your deep compassion...

A heartfelt thank you for being by my side and for listening. It really does mean a lot...

The quote was very thoughtful and fitting 🙂 Be prepared to be uncomfortable, yes?

Also, I don’t think that I could have said it any better myself:

Opening our eyes is a really difficult thing to do ... it's like stepping out into the dark side .... but if you let your heart speak, and if keep your focus on the ones that suffer, it's easy (to do, but not to feel .... be prepared for some sleepless nights, my beautiful friend).

Beautifully expressed, my friend...

I’ve been staring at my hands and feeling as though they have been soaked in all sorts of gruesomeness (so to speak...not literally). My own guilt is enormous...

I feel once I made that intellectual and emotional connection, it’s something that is hard to ignore...it’s a heavy feeling.

It didn’t take much for me to grasp (what I perceive to be) cultural double standards for they way we tend to perceive/treat different animal species as whole animals. But it has (clearly) taken me much longer to make that connection with animal secretions like dairy and eggs...

Sighs, now I’m feeling guilty and I realise that this is my own personal issue/struggle but I feel it’s important for me to sit with those uncomfortable feelings. I think that the discomfort is trying to tell me something...

Funny how you mentioned sleepless nights as I have been tossing and turning...

On a loosely related note, I mentioned this book elsewhere but I think it’s very fitting that I mention it here too (in case anyone is interested). It’s called “How animals think and feel” by Ken Cheng. He discusses animal emotions, animal communication, animal learning, etc.

A loving thank you once again and I look forward to you “write(ing) more” as you said...

A warm hug to you for being the wonderfully kind and understanding person and friend that you are...

Love,

Pepper xoxo

[Peppermintbach]

Hi birdy and all,

I don’t know if I posted my own post or whether I’m just having tech issues? Either way, I’m hoping it doesn’t mean I’ve to remember what I wrote. Lol.

I just wanted to say a big thank you for now and I’ll check again later...

Grateful hugs to you 🙂

Love,

Pepper xoxo

[Birdy77]

Dear Pepper and all,

A big warm hug from me Pepper ❤

I think you will believe me when I say that all those thoughts, feelings, emotions that you described are very, very familiar to me. I completely understand every single part of your post from yesterday.

The heavy feeling, the guilt, yes, looking at your hands .... I get it all. I think very early in this thread I mentioned that when I made the connection like you have, it triggered a pretty intense episode of depression for me. I would wake in the middle of the night and cry, my heart aching for all those innocent darlings who, right that very minute while I'm tucked up warm and cosy in bed, are in a living hell, because of humans.

I, too, feel guilt for so stubbornly refusing to make that connection earlier (I was a vegetarian for many years as well), and my only regret about going vegan is that I did not do it earlier. I told my partner about your feelings and asked for her thoughts and she said she thinks your post pretty much could have been written by me, but for her, she is just so happy that we connected the dots and immediately started living our values. Once we educated ourselves, that was it. So she has that positive spin on it, and it may help you to try to stir some of that in with the heaviness, sweeten it just a little.

We are enculturated from the day we are born into this way of treating sentient beings as ingredients, and as machines to produce ingredients, so that we don't think about it, it's not a "thing", unless we're brave enough to look a bit longer, think a bit deeper, & then do something about it. Refuse to be a part of this completely unnecessary cruelty.

Many think of it as a restriction, a "lifestyle" with "rules". From my perspective, it's not a restriction but an expansion. An expansion of compassion and empathy for the vulnerable and the voiceless, an expansion of love and respect.

I can't say that the hurting will stop my lovely friend. It still hurts me on a daily basis. It's like, once you truly make that connection, it's like unlocking this secret door that reveals this horrible darkness that is the daily goings on of our society. For me, it's an ongoing grieving process, & I fully understand how your are feeling, and am right here by your side, in it with you.

But know that you are doing something. You are one less person harming animals and funding the harming of animals.

Sending you loving & peaceful vibes to calm some of your anguish.

🌻birdy xoxo

[Peppermintbach]

Hi beautiful birdy, Chrissystar and all;

Thank you so much for the incredibly understanding and compassionate post. Please thank your wonderful partner for me too 🙂

I love how you discuss things with each other and seem to really support one another. You have a beautiful relationship and you’re both clearly incredible people.

Oh birdy, I can’t say that I’m surprised that you, our deeply caring friend, was (is) kept up at night by all sorts of pain and worries about animals. It’s plain to see that you have an enormous well of compassion for both humans and non-humans alike...thank you so much for being you...really...

Yes, I agree that meat eating is entrenched in many cultures. I feel most people are generally caring at heart but sometimes, i think it’s a lack of awareness, other pressures, confusion/feeling overwhelmed with information and/or even burying their head in the sand in some cases...

In my own case, I feel that I have been complicit in certain issues related to animals. This is how I feel about myself, and it’s not something that I’m proud of...for a long time, I put going vegan in the “too hard” basket (as I mentioned earlier).

I just shoved it into some hidden corner. But from time to time, I would revisit that basket and doubts and inner conflict would start surfacing...

To a large extent, it’s also because I fell into a degree of complacency. I became far too comfortable being vegetarian...I knew what to substitute in place of meat options, how to get my nutrients, how to “create” a vegetarian meal when none/limited options were available at a restaurant (e.g. by ordering multiple entrees as my “meal”), etc, etc. I “knew” (so to speak) how to be vegetarian...

I agree with you it’s not about “rules” and it’s not a “lifestyle” either. I feel it’s a way of going about daily life in a way that tries to minimise harm to animals. So basically, what you said...

Once again, a grateful thank you for your support, friendship and kindness. I really do appreciate you 🙂

Talking here helps me to process some of my own thoughts and feel less alone in my inner conflict ...again...thank you

Your loving and peaceful vibes are gracefully accepted and I’m sending some to both you and your partner 🙂

Love,

Pepper xoxo

[BeKindRewind4Life]

Hi,

It's great to see someone speaking out about vegetarianism and veganism.

I just want to say that, I know how you feel about the guilt. I am vegan and I too took too long to become one, my mum and sister were both vegan well before me and it took being exposed to seeing the what the livestock industry looks like, very closely, to turn me. This is what society does, and I did, we turn our heads to the suffering in both animals and humans so we can pretend we have clear consciences, so we can sleep at night.

Being vegan, I have come to the realisation, that it is a path, some start early, some start later, and if you find the path then you are reducing suffering of both animals, and even humans because of the amount of resources the livestock industry uses. What matters is that you follow the path as much as you feel you are able, every stepping stone you take matters.

Reducing suffering in this world is all you can do, you can't fix the world but you can improve yourself, and if you do that, you will sleep better.

[Peppermintbach]

Hi BeKindRewind4Life (waves to all),

A very warm and pleased welcome 🙂

I’m really happy to meet you here! Plus I bet beautiful Birdy will be pleased to talk to a fellow vegan when she next visits 🙂

Thank you so much for your very kind and understanding post. I really appreciate it...

I think it’s wonderful that you’re vegan, and that you have a couple of vegan family members. That’s great!

I agree with you that, for a myriad of reasons, many of us (including me at times) turn our heads to human and animal suffering. I feel you’re very right there...

Sighs, I haven’t been sleeping very well this past week for a whole range of reasons, and yes, guilt is definitely one of those reasons...thank you so much for getting where I’m coming from. It really does mean a lot to have your encouragement (yours too, Birdy).

My head hurts a little and I can’t believe it has taken me this long to connect it all in my head, well, I can because it obviously has taken me this long...

I like your point about reducing suffering...that makes a lot of sense...

Can I ask what it was like for you becoming vegan? You don’t have to answer if you don’t want to...the transition, I mean...or was it an overnight thing?

Thanks again! I really hope we hear from you again but of course, there’s no pressure 🙂 It’s good to have you here...

Kind and caring thoughts,

Pepper

[Birdy77]

Hello everyone 😊

So lovely to have you here BeKindRewind4Life! ✌ (It's a 'v' for vegan ... the new meaning behind the peace sign 😉).

It always makes my heart soar to be in the company of another vegan, it feels like there is a deep understanding that is just inherently there.

Thank you for what you do on a daily basis to make the world a more gentle & compassionate place.

I am really happy to see you here, and I hope to hear more from you, and that you are finding your way around the forums.

Pepper and I can very much relate to your feelings of guilt. How wonderful that you have family who are vegan. I imagine that would have helped?

Pepper, I totally get it, with the complacency and comfort, knowing "how to be a vegetarian", but thinking vegan is in the too hard basket.

Now that I've crossed the border, I know that honestly, for me, nothing could be further from the truth. I think when people focus on their cravings and their wants e.g., cheese, bacon, whatever . .. It will always be seen as difficult.

But if one always keeps in mind who the victim is that was used to produce that cheese or that bacon (mumma cow+calf/mumma pig + baby piglet etc), I think it's incredibly easy to make the choice.

A few times I've mentioned the disconnect that makes up everything we consume these days.

I was talking to my partner the other day about my Gran, she used to have chickens (as did a lot of people back in the day) & on Sunday, if they were going to have roast chicken, she'd go out to the backyard and choose one & pop her in the oven.

I honestly think that is better than what happens these days. At least she had to do the deed. I honestly think if everyone had to do, or witness where their bacon comes from, nobody would buy it.

I would love if there was a video everyone had to watch,of meat dairy and eggs being produced & a thing everyone had to sign, every time they bought a packet of bacon, for instance, that they understood & condoned the conditions this came from. Or on every carton of milk: this was produced by a cow for her calf which was taken from her so that you could have this milk .... I wonder how many people would sign that.

I think we're conditioned to think "oh cows always have milk available, it's there for our use". If you think a bit harder, it is obvious that's not the case.

Sighs .... it always makes me feel like crying ...

Sorry I think I've been on a rant. I think it's from leftover stress.

🌻birdy

[Peppermintbach]

Hi beautiful birdy, BeKindRewind4Life and all,

I am listening, my friend, and hearing your frustrations. You’re not alone...no need to apologise.

I understand all this is very close to heart for you and it’s something that you think about everyday...a pain you carry inside everyday...

Sighs. I’m tired too and feeling sad for a whole range/combination of reasons so I’m sitting here with you in any residue stress/other feelings you may have...you’re absolutely not alone...here with you.

I thought that you would be very pleased to meet BeKindRewind4Life 😉 I agree with you that it would be fantastic to see him/her (waves) around the forums but no pressure of course..

Yes, I get what you’re saying about how the perspective that a person takes can influence their decisions...whether a person operates from the perspective of having certain food preferences, for example, versus taking the perspective of the process it takes for an animal to become food...no ‘answers’ here but merely probing thoughts...

I agree with your point about disconnect. I feel people generally have good intentions but what can sometimes stop those good intentions become actions is disconnect, feeling overwhelmed, lack of awareness, etc.

Personally, I try to remember while I may be vegetarian now and have been for some time, I once ate meat too. So I once felt that disconnect too...

I’m not saying it’s an excuse but I think when I remember that, it helps me to empathise with well meaning people who want to help but who are feeling overwhelmed, experiencing other pressures, etc ...

That being said, I do hear your feelings of sadness and frustration...in my own (guilty) way, I’m in it with you too.

What I’ve decided to do...I understand everyone has to pursue their own path but here’s what I’ve decided to do. I’m going to try to transition from vegetarian to vegan in the next 6 months. Why 6 months?

For me, I feel that timeframe is doable/realistic, and it also means that I can use up existing cleaning products, non-cruelty free makeup, etc. I realise some people choose to discard those products overnight but I would prefer to just use it up...

What I’m really interested to know, and please don’t feel obligated to answer if you don’t want to, can I please ask what was the hardest and easiest parts of becoming vegan?

Thanks so much!

Grateful hugs to you 🙂 You’re always welcome to share your worries, pain, etc when it comes to animals, climate change, etc here...

Love,

Pepper xoxox

[Birdy77]

Hello Pepper & everyone 😊

I have been feeling a bit bad about my last post. I didn't mean to be harsh, or unempathic ... not to use this as an excuse, but I was feeling very emotional & upset, I probably shouldn't have posted under those circumstances.

I don't often rant like that here, & I apologise.

I agree with everything you wrote Pepper. I do completely understand from the other side , as I used to be there too. My upset state of mind was at the fore.

I think a 6month transition sounds like a smart long term transition Pepper. I don't see the point in throwing things out just because ... if an animal has already suffered for the making of the product, I feel it's more of a waste to throw it out, you know? Then they've suffered for nothing. I still have some products at the back of the cupboard, different cleaning products & such.

When I connected the dots, I couldn't bring myself to eat the dairy we had in our fridge, but we didn't waste it e.g. we had just bought a massive, very expensive wedge of parmesan, then we went vegan, we gave it to our friends because we couldn't stomach it.

But other products, makeup etc, there's still some randoms hanging around & I think it's better to use it up.

Pepper, I have been thinking about your question to me. Sorry it's taken a while to post back, I've been so unbelievably tired and feeling really depressed this week & have found it hard to post.

I have found it very easy to become vegan, but these were my thoughts to your question:

Easiest:

1. Finding alternatives to eggs and dairy (& meat, for my partner);
2. Finding wonderful recipes that have left us excited, satisfied and full of plants;
3. Swapping out animal products for vegan ingredients in cooking and baking;
4. I thought I would miss cheese a lot, but there are so many vegan cheeses available that this has not been a problem at all.

Hardest:

1. Going on road trips (you have to bring your own food just in case you can't find a vegan option);
2. Going to functions (you have to either bring your own food or arrange a vegan option prior);
3. Having to deal with people assuming they know better than you about what's right for you;
4. Trying to sleep at night, knowing what goes on to innocent, gentle animals.

Pepper, is there anything that you are finding hard? You can ask me anything, it is my honour to help you in any tiny way and I want you to ask ... It is my privilege to give you any advice or whatevs.

Out of characters.

Lots of love,

🌻birdy

[Peppermintbach]

Hi beautiful birdy, Chrissystar and all,

Oh birdy, I don’t feel your were “harsh” or lacking in empathy in your other post. You have nothing to apologise for, my friend....you obviously have a very caring nature to do so but it really wasn’t necessary.

I know how close to heart this issue is to you, and if anything, I feel it was a moment of vulnerability. The combination of fatigue, stress and your ongoing sadness for animals led to a very heartfelt and earnest outpouring of emotion/thoughts...in some ways, it was actually very endearing...

I suppose what I’m trying to say is you don’t have to apologise for your emotions and thoughts. You’re allowed to feel and you’re allowed to care...

Isn’t that one of the things that so many of us here love about you? That deep caring...

I must admit that I have been worried about you. You seem so down and lacklustre, and I noticed your absence...I saw your post on UB’s thread. There’s zero obligation but is there anything you want to talk about or ask? That said, I mean it when I say no pressure...but I am here for you...

Also, you absolutely don’t need to apologise to me either. I know you’ve been really struggling so seriously, please just take your time with posts...no need to reply if you’re not feeling up to it.

You, and your wellbeing, are many times more important. I value that (you and your wellbeing) much more...

Thank you so much for your reply. You have been (are) an enormous help to me!

I must say that I’m impressed that your lovely partner transitioned from eating meat to vegan. That’s a big leap. Well done to her 🙂

I’m somewhat concerned about my own ability to ensure adequate nutrients. This isn’t because of the vegan diet itself but it has more to do with my own slack habits, which is my own issue (lol!). But I do have an upcoming dietician appointment, which should help...

Also, I do feel a tad lonely. Maybe it sounds silly but because all my offline friends and family make very different decisions to me when it comes to diet, consumption, etc. So if I bring up something, it’s a fine line between sounding like I’m raising something because it’s important to me and (accidentally) sounding like I’m criticising them...a fine line...

A big thank you again. Please...no rush or pressure to reply. Take all the time you need. But if you ever want to talk, there are many open hearts here that await you...

Sending comfort and much love (plus plant based treats) to you and your partner,

Pepper xoxo