Animal cruelty, climate change, monoculture...the list goes on.

[ChrissyStar]

I feel hopeless and have decided not to have children because of the state of the world (why would I wish to bring a child into this when I myself, do not like to live here?). Does anyone else feel the same?

[Peppermintbach]

Hi ChrissyStar and all,

I thought that I would just very quickly share this with you all 🙂

There is a book called Waste not: make a difference by throwing away less by Erin Rhoades, which some of you might be interested in.

I figured, considering the subject matter of this thread, it seemed relevant 🙂

Pepper xoxo

[Birdy77]

Hello ChrissyStar and all 😊

Sez, thank you for your really encouraging and uplifting words. I felt buoyed and inspired by your supportive encouragement!! I really appreciate your sentiments.

I do understand your thinking that I am mistaken in believing my views are unpopular. I agree that very few people would actively and vocally support "animal cruelty".

However, I think that what I am talking about is a bit different.

I think if my views were popular, the majority of the population would be vegan. You made the point that most people would be against the practices I described, with the exception being those who financially benefit from such practices.

But the reason those people (and companies) financially benefit from the practices I described is because the general population funds it. The practices I described are just everyday happenings in animal agriculture, just another day in the process of producing meat, eggs and dairy to the paying masses.

My view is that our society is built upon a system of inherent cruelty and injustice towards animals, cruelty and injustice that is seen as normal and just part of everyday "essential" living. As much as I can, I reduce my participation in that cruelty by living as a vegan.

Thanks again for your encouragement to continue taking a stand for what I believe in. It means a lot. 😊 xo

Pepper, do you know how much you made my day?! You can only guess, and then it would be an underestimation 😄 When i read your post i couldn't wait for my partner to come home so i could share the news with her!! There are so many yummy vegan cheeses etc available now, I really think you will find it fun, discovering new treasures. I applaud your new steps in your cruelty free journey.

I know being in the kitchen cooking up a storm is not your much-loved go-to activity 😁 but, this morning I made a vegan baked "chevre" (a cheese usually made with goats milk), and it is truly amazing, if you want the recipe 😊 I have made it a few times, and once served it up to my partner's family (carnivorous south americans) and they gobbled it down and asked for the recipe. Who knew tofu could be so awesome?!

Thank you so very much for your inspiring words Pepper and for being the change you wish to see in the world ❤ xo

Love and light to all from me

🌻birdy

[Birdy77]

Hi again everyone,

I saw this on a wall poster and thought I'd share it here:

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer

" ... The activist of every single social justice issue, whether about slavery, segregation, women's suffrage, police brutality, LGBTQI discrimination, etc, have been accused of being too idealistic, too sensitive, or even delusional. This is not a new phenomenon. No one has ever sparked change by going along with the status quo. One day people won't think we're being too sensitive, they'll wonder how they were ever so calloused."

Thanks Pepper for the title of that Waste Not book. I see she has a blog etc as well. Looks awesome 😊

🌻birdy

[Unbeliever]

"Change don't come looking for friends".

[Just Sara]

Hi Birdy; waves to Pepper, UB, Grandy and Chrissy;

What beautiful words; both to me and generally. When you speak with passion and commitment, it's striking. 🙂

If it's ok, I'd like to open up the Vegan issue for discussion. I looked at a Vegan lifestyle 20 yrs ago, but instead leaned more towards vegetarianism. I didn't do this as a political, lifestyle or peer driven choice, I did it for my health.

The confusion re info on carnivores, herbivores and omnivores, then digestion, protein and carbs etc, was too much so I did a trial instead of being strict or obsessive.

I had a vegan friend who helped me. She didn't push or lecture which was nice, just gently guided me when I became lost; and that's the thing Birdy - I did get lost because of choice and opinion. (There are so many out there)

All the science in the world though couldn't replicate my natural instincts; the label thing confused. Original human communities hunted, gathered and ate whatever was available so, there was no choice.

Then you read quite magnanimously; 'Yeah, and they didn't live for more than 30 yrs either! Look at us now!' Ergo, population explosion. I mean, are these geeks for real?

(See, you're not the only one who's views might be controversial. I see living for 100 yrs as offensive to the planet and our children/society. That's for another thread though..)

Sorry, I digress.

Even though I ate really well, I still didn't know if I was doing the right thing for 'my' body 'on the day'. To egg, or not to egg, that was the question. Not even info from my blood type or ancestral heritage could address this problem.

After a couple of satisfied yrs, I woke one morning craving beef. Not just any beef; a large steak. I called my friend who came over and told me to listen to my body. This sort of shocked me due to her vegan beliefs.

We talked about our bodies being instinctive and learning how to listen to its signals. I've lived by 'feel' since then, not always good either. Simple carbs (especially sugar) are the devil's food!

I'm craving a smoke as I type. I've given up btw! Ha! Who would'a thunk??? It's been a week and one day. Yay me!

Anyway, my question to you is; "Is having your own chooks who roam freely ok? Surely eating their eggs wouldn't be seen as cruel; is it? Or a beloved family cow who provides milk?'

These are the rules that confuse too. Would really appreciate your thoughts. 🙂

Sorry about the long post..

Thankyou.. Sez x

[Birdy77]

Hi Sez 😊

Thanks for your really interesting post.

There's a lot in your post, and I won't address it all right now, but I'd like to answer the questions you asked me.

In my opinion, eating eggs from beloved backyard chooks who have an awesome life is not cruel. We have chooks in our backyard and my partner eats them (I don't, but that's because I just choose not to) ... they are our pets and live in chook heaven, they will lay eggs daily regardless of whether anyone eats them ... so my partner eats their eggs, or we share them with our neighbours.

About a beloved cow who provides milk: the only time a cow produces milk is when they've produced a calf (like human women, we lactate when we've given birth) ... the milk a cow produces is intended for her baby, and in order for humans to consume that milk, her calf must be removed from her at birth and her milk is then (in my eyes) "stolen".

Let's say, for instance, you had a beloved cow in your back yard and she became pregnant (somehow?) and gave birth to a calf and you wanted to "share" the milk with that calf ... I guess that might be ok (I wouldn't, because I believe it is meant for the calf, but for arguments sake ...)

As to "listening to your body" about cravings and the like, I understand that mentality. I would say: Ok, you are craving a big steak - if you can go and find a cow and slaughter her, and cook her up so that your bodily cravings are satisfied, then that may be your prerogative, if you felt that a morally ok thing to do.

But to go to the supermarket and buy a prettily presented cut of meat that does not reflect the horror of where it can from, I find it a bit hard to justify.

Just a few of my thoughts.

I take this position because it feels right in my heart, after educating myself on in the reality of the dairy, egg and meat industry, not for political purposes, health reasons or to be a pain in everyone's butt!!

It comes from a place of compassion and empathy for the voiceless.

Love from me

🌻birdy

[Birdy77]

Hi Sez and everyone,

I have made a terrible error!!

I said we have chooks in our backyard and my partner eats them.

Perish the thought!!

She eats their eggs. That's all.

I also apologise if my last post came across harsh in any way, I certainly did not mean it as such.

I just want to live my life the way that feels right to me, and let others make their own decisions based on their personal ethics and convictions.

Peace to all.

🌻birdy

[Peppermintbach]

Hi birdy (and all),

A friendly wave to Sez, UB, Grandy, ChrissyStar and all 🙂

Your words and encouragement made me smile. Thank you so very, very much. It also made me chuckle that you shared the “news” (lol) with your lovely partner. I think it’s beautiful how you both seem so supportive of each other and stand by what you believe in 🙂

When it comes to a very deep and all encompassing compassion for animals, you’re the real deal. In my opinion, I feel sometimes human compassion can be somewhat limited...

What I mean is some people’s (not all) compassion extends only to our own species or to people “like us”, that is, people who have had similar upbringings, share similar ideologies, etc...yes, I absolutely do understand and empathise with why this might be the case for some people; I just wish it was less common...

Anyway, here you are extending your empathy and love to a cause so far removed from us (yet paradoxically they are so similar to us in other ways), and painstakingly expressing your views with grace, tact and caring despite how your heart must ache.

In so many ways, when it comes to a profound love for animals, you’re the real deal...you really are...

Now about food (awkward segue lol)...I must admit that I know very little about vegan/dairy-free cheese. I have only tried a couple that happened to be in veggie burgers. You’ll have to educate me. Feel free to share your tasty chèvre recipe 🙂

So far, giving up dairy products hasn’t been too bad. I think it’s doable but it just requires a little more attentiveness, planning and research 🙂

Last weekend, I spent considerable time at a health food store that sells a variety of homemade and local products. When I was studying the ingredients in various products, I was surprised that most of their dark chocolate range contains milk/milk solids.

I expected their milk chocolate products to contain milk but I was surprised about the dark chocolate there. That said, I was happy to find some dairy-free dark chocolate coated berries and truffles there 🙂

The health food aisle at supermarkets is also a good option for dairy free products. A lot of the chips in that aisle, for example,
are dairy free and/or vegan. So that was convenient 🙂 Plus there’s also of course coconut oil, soy milk, almond milk, etc.

So far, it hasn’t been too bad. Eating out with friends might present some interesting challenges (lol) but it’s not a huge issue in the grand scheme of things...

Love,

Pepper xoxo

[Peppermintbach]

Hi birdy and all (waves to Chrissystar and all),

Sorry, I forgot to thank you for sharing the Schopenhauer quote plus the poster 🙂

In short, I agree with those sentiments. True about how no positive change would occur if we all upheld “tradition” purely for tradition’s sake. Sometime, not always, I believe there’s a fine line between tradition and oppression or tradition and cruelty...

I personally think it’s healthy not to take any ideology for granted. It’s healthy to reflect, challenge and question in my opinion...

Love,

Pepper xoxo

[Birdy77]

Dear Pepper ❤

Thank you so much for your really beautiful post. You lifted my spirits and warmed my heart.

I will most certainly give you some ideas about vegan cheeses and other non dairy things ... I found a Vegan Cheese Kit by Mad Millie at the Cruelty Free Shop (available online) a really easy way to start making my own cheezes at home, if you're interested in giving it a go. I just started out making my own cream cheeses and ricotta from very basic recipes from the internet.

Pinterest will be your best friend for a while 😊. Pinterest is my BFF, we can share.

Keepin' It Kind blog by Kristy Turner is awesome, she wrote the chevre recipe (I have her book "But I could never go vegan!"

Brands of cheeses to try:

"botanical cuisine: (made in Collingwood, Vic)

"damona non-dairy cheeses" (made in Fawkner, Vic.)

The Vegan Dairy (made in Mount Martha, Vic)

Are all great Australian made products to try.

Supermarket brands I use and find really good for pizzas and the like are: Sheese and biocheese.

I can suggest other things later.

I just really wanted to thank you for your perfectly uplifting post.

More later.

Lots of love.

🌻birdy xo