Great expectations

[white knight]

The scenario. You, your wife and your dog have planned a round Oz driving trip. Your wife's best friend, her husband and their dog will be in their bus. You'll travel together.

Early on in the trip they forge ahead, on each leg they go out of sight and you wonder if you break down that you won't have the help you could have had if he'd kept an eye on you and kept close by.

You drive along an outback highway and it happens, engine oil seal gives way. A tow job. No phone range. Your friends don't know, they were 5 kms ahead. You hitch a lift 60kms to the last town and organise the tow truck. You wait at the van park until its fixed.

Your friends text you when they are finally in phone range about 300km away. You reply that you are OK, the car needed towing and "this is why one should keep watch on the other party"

You also tell them to continue with their holiday but you are fuming inside.

There are many questions but these are the ones I need answering

- it it unreasonable to expect your friends to automatically realise for safety reasons to stay together?

- if you think so and they don't share that view, would that difference mean you could not ever be close mates?

- is there a bare basics level of mateship that you expect from friends.

As we are in our van waiting for our car repairs my dear wife wants me to remain friendly towards our "friends" which I would now find difficult. But I'll try. Well meet about 5 days from now.

Here's the thing. Had the tables been reversed when I found out my mate was stranded or even settled back at the caravan park, I would have driven back there to support them. In fact on two occasions that happened on our trip.

Is it unreasonable to base your friendship with someone upon your own values?

How can you calculate acquaintance will make a committed "mate" in the long term? So you can save time and not waste effort on someone that would leave you for dead on an outback highway?

Are we unfair having expectations?

Two mates head off riding their trail bikes. One gets a flat tyre. The other says "too bad, its not my bike that has a flat tyre" and rides off. It would be a given that they'd help each other in such circumstances.

But my sister hit the nail on the head. "Our father always went over and beyond the call of duty and always got hurt".

Im tired of people hurting me. It has to stop. The walls are going up!

I just have to find a way of doing that and putting on a smiling face at the same time

Tony WK

[Marcsa]

Hi Tony WK,

I hear you . And I'm with you. I find it similar when one is always the one to arrange get togethers and I go out of my way to do something and the favour is not returned. I suspect all you wanted was a rant and I understand.

Cheers, M

[Neil_1]

Hi Tony,

Firstly great to hear from you and secondly and most importantly, that you are all ok (and I say all, referring to you, your wife and your dog).

I couldn’t imagine how much you must (and possibly still are) be fuming from that – I’m fuming about it and I’m thousands of km’s removed from it.

Here’s the thing – it was a “planned” around Oz driving trip. One would have thought, that you’d travel as a pair – especially on some of those roads where it is pretty remote – and hey, one never knows what might happen. I mean, an engine oil seal could give way.

You said you would have turned around and gone back – I believe you probably wouldn’t had to, because you’d have been within eye-sight and immediately seen that something was amiss.

Now to your questions: I’ll put your questions in italics, so my answer stands out.


- it it unreasonable to expect your friends to automatically realise for safety reasons to stay together?
Mentioned above, but totally acceptable and common sense should have made them stay close.

- if you think so and they don't share that view, would that difference mean you could not ever be close mates?
Bloody difficult – in fact, I’d be biting my tongue not to tell them to drive on and enjoy the rest of their lives.

- is there a bare basics level of mateship that you expect from friends.
Yes. And in these circumstances, absolutely – it’s not like you were travelling say from one town to another in Victoria, where you’d have mobile coverage all the way; and if something happened, you could phone the “other” immediately.

One would have thought you’d have been pretty good mates in the first place to undertake such a journey and adventure – and now, well that mate-ship has been rocked.

Your wife wishes to continue to be friendly – and that’s fine. Though I wonder was she at all “miffed” by them continuing on and therefore, leaving you both to fend for yourselves?

I’ll leave it at this – hope I didn’t over-step the mark any.

Neil

[pipsy]

Hi Tony, unfortunately not everyone thinks the same as 'us'. We all would like to believe our friends would be as worried about us as we worry about them. It's not 'wrong' to expect our friends to automatically stay together for safety reasons. however, as I said before, everyone reacts to fear, concern, differently. It's the same as helping someone in a 'tight spot' and expecting a thank you, at least. When we are not acknowledged for our kind deeds, it hurts because even though we may not have done something for acknowledgement, it still would be nice to be acknowledged. I think accepting people for who are they, rather than what we expect, is more realistic. The old saying 'do unto others' etc, comes into it a bit. However realistically speaking, 'give without expecting' would be a more accurate view. I've been kicked several times for expecting more than I got. It doesn't stop me, I just don't expect any more. Basic human nature, being what it is, is selfish, 'every man for himself', is the norm, rather than the exception.

does the above make sense?

Lynda.

[white knight]

The trouble us Pipsy, that "every man for himself", I'd have guilt feelings for weeks if I was my friend.

My friend doesn't have one mate in the world. I thought we could be.

I'm inclined to agree with Neil. I will be biting my tongue.

My wife and I have had many discussions on this. She feels that she in principle agrees with my side but doesn't think the trip should be threatened in any way. Hence I shouldn't have sent that text message about keeping watch on the other.

But we are all different.

I suppose I'd never go through a desert with him.

He often says " I don't care". Maybe that's the problem.

Marcsa made the point about arranging get togethers. Say I rang around 12 friends and invited them for a BBQ. Each said they'd come. But not one came.

If you had an idealistic non expectation attitude you wouldn't be upset. But you'd have a fridge full of food SO you would have expectations wouldn't you?.

It isn't just a rant Marcsa...I fall into depression and confusion over these issues/differences with people. Forever being disappointed. While the non carers haven't got a worry in the world....

They better not get engine troubles.

Tony WK

I

[Starwolf]

Hi Tony,

My heart goes out to you. A difficult episode along the road is bad enough but feeling let down by someone you trusted is even worse. Unfortunately, only hard times let us know who is really here with and for us...something positive although such realization does hurt. I hope this bad experience hasn't dampened your spirit of adventure !

I can understand where you come from. I have also been a loyal friend and have persistently gone out of my way to help others only to be let down when I was the one in need of support. But you know what...I wouldn't let other people's actions (or lack of) affect the way I am. Because I'd rather be me than become like them. By changing me, they would have won.

It is true that I have become way more cautious about who I help. I feel that letting people take advantage of others is doing them no long-term favor. I probably would not OFFER assistance to those who have betrayed my trust unless they are desperate enough to ask. Then I would hope the experience could help mend their way. There's never a guarantee this would happen but I would at least know that I gave it my best shot.

Your father raised you well. You are thoughtful and have a big heart. People like you shouldn't have to face such disappointment. The sad fact is they often do...(but not always). But it is better than being disappointed with YOURSELF for not doing what you know is the right thing.

No one can tell you how to react. But I feel your wife has the right idea. No matter how polite you remain, a distance has been created. Sooner or later these people will perceive it. They will work out how you feel and why for themselves without any 'unpleasantness" from your part. All credit to you. Whether they learn something from it or not is out of your hands.

Tony, this world needs more people like you. You're doing a great job here, offering solace and wise advice to those in need. Recognition sure feels good when it happens but expecting it only sets us up for disappointment.Your compassion IS appreciated by those who know a good thing when they come across it.

[pipsy]

Tony, I actually did arrange a barby once. I did have a fridge full, no-one came. I was upset, but instead of letting it get me, I managed to give the food to neighbours. I could've stamped my feet, had a temper tantrum etc, what good would that have done? Allowing other's thoughtlessness to impede on your nature also tends to let them see your vulnerable side. While this (in theory) sounds great, all it does in re-inforce the fact that you get hurt. True friends won't deliberately hurt you, if they realise they have in the first instant, they usually do acknowledge. If they don't, obviously their friendship isn't as true. I personally would never deliberately, or otherwise, kick you. Actually, Tony, I have found when someone says 'I don't care' they do, they use the I don't care to cover, to appear to have no feelings. Like you with your guilt feelings, if you abandoned someone in need, I would feel guilty too. All I meant was, not everyone cares enough to feel the guilt. It would be a ideal world if everyone did care about everyone, but it's not an ideal world. If you did follow Neil's approach to 'bite your tongue', given you have a conscience I don't think you could. Easy to say 'say nothing' hard to do when your heart and conscience says otherwise. You can't change the kind, thoughtful, person you are. Perhaps maybe think about who to invite, next time you decide to embark on a journey like this. Don't let 'bad apples' stop you. I would like to think, if you and I ever met, we could become friends. You have always shown me true friendship, for that, I am truly grateful.

Lynda

[Elizabeth CP]

Tony, I am so sorry this happened to you. This is one reason I wouldn't attempt to drive in the outback because I would be scared of breaking down with no help.

Looking at this from a learning point of view to all of us.

If we are planning something with someone else we need to talk first and understand each others expectations. If you know that the other party wants company when its convenient but wants to remain independent going at their own pace means you can choose to pull out knowing the other party have different ideas about responsibility. Much better than finding out when things go wrong. So the answer to your first question ( is it unreasonable to expect your friends to automatically realize for safety reasons to stay together?) People are imperfect & some are thoughtless & don't live by the rules we think make sense (ie watch out for each other & care for each other)so don't assume others will live by the rules you live by.

We can be friends with people who think differently to us but only while you are doing things which their differences will not impact on you. For example I get on really well with my brother but some of his attitudes are different to mine so I avoid putting myself in a situation where his attitude or way of doing things will conflict with mine but there is enough things where we support each other & enjoy being together so maintaining the relationship works.

I can understand your wife's point of view in trying to be polite & friendly. This is NOT because they deserve it (they don't) but telling them how you really feel although justified will not help & may make things worse. If & when you meet up again I would have a serious discussion with them (maybe led by your wife who is more likely to remain calm) & then make a final decision of what to do for the future of this trip. They would have to demonstrate a real change in behaviour & attitude before I would drive in the desert with them.

I really hope you can find a way to continue your trip even with modifications to ensure your safety. You deserve to have a good trip. Now is a good time to review why you wanted this trip & what is important to you then work out what to do to enjoy the rest of the trip.

[pipsy]

Hi Elizabeth. I get where you're saying about discussion first before we undertake anything involving friends/rellies etc. However, the problem from that could be, people saying one thing, doing another, maybe not intentionally. Everyone has been 'promised' something from someone at some time or other. Not everyone sticks to the promise made unfortunately. It's easy when making plans with others to say, we'll meet here at such and such a time. Unfortunately, along the journey, some unforseen incident, (breakdown, sightseeing etc) often means change of plans without necessarily having the foresight to inform others of change of plans. When this happens the people involved get understandably angry/upset etc. Then when they 'catch-up' and are told what's happened, they get laughed at for being upset in the first place. Tony understood everyone was in 'sync' with plans, it seems he was the only one in 'sync'. If Tony can overcome his initial anger and hurt, yes, he will prove to be the 'better person'. Tony, to me, has to be the most truthful, understanding, kindest person I have ever been in contact with. Hopefully, this incident won't change his personality. It may make him wary about future planning with people, understandable. I just hope, with his wife's help, he doesn't put everyone in the same category. None of us here on the forums at BB would ever treat him like that.

Lynda.

[JessF]

Hello Tony, I've read through the whole thread and everyone's replies a couple of times, and I wonder if I might be a bit of a devil's advocate here. Taking as a given that you ended up in a dangerous situation, and thank god you are ok, I just wanted to review your telling of what happened so I can make sure I understand the details.

You're travelling together, but the other party is zooming ahead. You're not in contact with them between stops, and in some cases this isn't possible because there is no phone coverage. You break down, hitch the lift etc. The next thing you hear is that your friend texts you to check on where you are. You tell your friend what has happened, and then you tell them everything is fine and to keep going.

I just wonder whether this is an incident of an unfortunate communication breakdown rather than a wilful malicious intent. Your friends were unable to text you until they were 300km from you, and at that point it would not have seemed very practical to drive all the way back to you, plus you told them you were fine and to keep going.

You of course know more about your friend's personality than any of us, but some other possibilities I see here are:

- Your friends aren't as 'safety-savvy' as you are, and forging ahead, assuming everything was fine and you were behind them, simply didn't notice that you weren't behind them until it was too late, and by then they couldn't contact you

- Your friends could well be very upset and worried about what happened, but haven't had the opportunity to tell you yet - if you had asked them to hold up or come back rather than moving on, they may well have dropped everything and come back

I guess my point is, perhaps not make too many assumptions until all the facts are in. You've had a frightening and upsetting experience, and you feel abandoned by your friend. This may not have been his intention at all.

A final point, and of course hindsight is always wonderful, but if you could wind back the clock to before the breakdown and had posted just the first part of your story, I would have suggested that you contact your friend in a friendly, joky way to say "hey, have you reached the moon yet?" and after you have a laugh just slip in that you'd like them to slow down so you can keep sight of each other in case something happens.