Am I being unhealthy?

[PrincessMilktea]

So despite the fact that I'm posting this in the depression forum I'd consider myself a pretty happy person overall, I just didn't know where to post this and depression seemed like the best fit, so my apologies in advance. Basically, everything in my life is going great except for the fact that I seem to have lost the ability to emotionally connect with others. I've noticed that I fake my emotions often and pretend to be more interested/invested than I actually am in people because I either don't want to hurt their feelings, want to gain something from them, or I just feel a strong compulsion to behave normally to preserve my 'image'.

I'm averse to standing out in any way (good or bad) and go to great lengths to keep a low profile whether at work or uni or just my social circles. I feel anxiety from being noticeably different from others and thus will not let people know how apathetic I truly am on the inside. The irony is that I want to emotionally connect with others but I can't seem to genuinely feel anything for them, even though they're mostly amazing people and had I met them when I was younger I would have definitely felt close to them. I think this apathy stems from just my terrible past friendships, relationships and familial trauma. Over the years I've had to dissolve many close relations with people I've cared deeply for and now I'm starting to think I'm emotionally burnt out as a result. This is going to sound sociopathic but I view like 90% of the people in my life as disposable. I know I feel next to nothing for most of them and that the only reason I'm not a full-blown sociopath is because I have enough empathy and integrity to realise they deserve to be treated better and I would feel terribly guilty for hurting them, so I treat them with compassion, commitment, support and 'perform' my duties in whatever capacity they need me to be.

I don't know if I should continue down this current trajectory or make an attempt to 'feel' again. It's not that much of an issue but nonethless it alarms me, and I wonder if it warrants going back to therapy. I apologise if my problems seem trivial in comparison to a lot of people here struggling with depression, I hope I haven't offended anyone and that my internal verbiage isn't too difficult to follow. I'd appreciate any insight/advice.

[Leigh1987]

Hey,

It is probably getting a little off topic but I don't agree Dexter was a sociopath.

Are you aware of the concept of the unreliable narrator? He claimed again and again to have no feelings but demonstrated through his actions and emotional responses that he had plenty!

Back on topic I am glad you found something of interest to take away from my response. And again I think what you describe in your original post is actually a case study in typical human pyschology and behaviour. It is exceedingly rare to feel strong connections to others and even when we do experience that care and love when it all ends we are quite capable of getting over it and moving on.

[White_Rose]

Hello PM

Sorry I did not explain myself properly. Dunbar's sample was based on employees in a factory which is why I wrote about work relationships. Very often it is the relationship we have with our colleagues that are the most significant. We spend so much of our time at work that having harmonious relationships is imperative. Of course that does not always happen but the potential is there.

Your comment about actively working on your relationships is right, especially in situations such as the workplace. We may not form deep relationships but we still need to get on with each other. Actually I think these semi-distant actions are beneficial to all of us. Tea breaks and exchanging a few words at the printer help to oil the wheels of communication.

So while these relationships are significant because we spend so much time at work, in general we reserve our most intimate times with those we choose to be with.

Mary

[tranzcrybe]

Hi Milktea,

"Honestly, the more emotionally/socially intelligent I become, the less I like people. Now that I get how they work, frankly, they disgust me" -

Perhaps a logic question:

For all 'x' being people in the world, and all 'y' being people you have ever known, where do you place yourself (real or perceived) in the subset?

Is it your data or demographic (or perhaps your point of reference) that may compromise your theory?

I still don't know how people 'work' - human nature is such an anomaly. Any tips for me?

Smoke and mirrors, Milktea. The less I understand, the more I learn.

Regards,

t.

[PrincessMilktea]

Hey Leigh,

I suspect they wrote Dexter as having some level of emotion to make him palatable to the audience. Basically, they wrote him inconsistently so that he can neither be labelled a full-blown socio/psycho nor a neurotypical. You're supposed to like him even after he murders people in cold blood.

Also I agree about being capable of moving on from strong connections to others, I actually fell in love a couple of years ago and honestly the intensity of emotions I felt for this person was comparable to hard drugs. I experienced all the withdrawal and relapse symptoms after things ended because it really is just that, an addiction. I think studies actually confirm this.

Anyways, it truly is exceedingly rare to feel a strong connection like that to others.

[PrincessMilktea]

Hey Mary, Dunbar's number is actually based on a correlation between neocortex size and average group size found in primates (group size is a monotonic function of brain size). The results of this research can also be found in early hunter-gatherer societies which were about 150 on average, and in Roman armies and modern companies. Social networks also reveal that most people only maintain an inner circle of 150 despite having thousands of friends. So no, this number doesn't pertain to merely work relationships.

[PrincessMilktea]

Hey tranzcrybe, your question about logic is one way to test the accuracy of my theory about people, but it isn't particularly effective. I can't reasonably meet every single person in the world 'x', and so I'll only ever have access to 'y'.

To solve this issue, I have to rely on inductive logic in order to come to any working conclusion about people (and of course this conclusion follows not with certainty, but with some probability).

So then the next step is figuring out how to make my probability high (so that I'm likely not wrong about my theory), and this is the part where I read about investigative research into psychology, history, politics, philosophy, history etc. These are all human oriented disciplines and if I am to arrive at any conclusion about the nature of human beings, that's the starting place. That's what I've done.

And I can't quantify all that into your subset. At best I could plug it into a statistical syllogism, but I'm not here to convince you that human beings are sucky, I came here to figure out if I should attempt to 'feel' for them despite everything. And I think I'm gonna go with 'no'.

Honestly, if you wanna know why I'm so cynical, read Chomsky's 'Manufacturing Consent', and look at what's happening right now in Australia with Murdoch Media.

[tranzcrybe]

Hi Milktea,

Thank you for your detailed response. Sorry my intelligence doesn't come anywhere near yours for complex statistical analysis, but you have answered my logic question rather effectively, nonetheless:-

It only asks whether you consider yourself as someone you know, or don't know, or for that matter, whether you even see yourself as separate from either classification. Your view from each perspective will vary considerably and my intention merely pertains to coming to terms with your own identity along with how you react and respond to others.

In that respect, I believe I am still focused on your primary question; your answer demonstrated more than the substance it contained - sorry, that was cruel of me, but it was one of the anticipated replies.

Empathy toward others stems from that which we allow for ourselves; and, although your extensive reading and knowledge is impressive, I feel it may only be the scaffolding that surrounds a shaky building and stops the light getting through.

I hope you are enjoying the discussion and I apologise for any more Tim Tams consumed as a consequence.

Best wishes,

t.

[PrincessMilktea]

Hey tranzcrybe,

'It only asks whether you consider yourself as someone you know, or don't know, or for that matter, whether you even see yourself as separate from either classification.'

I don't see myself as a separate classification, I assume what you're getting at is, do I consider myself better than those I resent? The answer is no, I believe I clarified this already to someone else but I'll say it again; I don't think I'm any better than the people I judge. I think I just have a different set of vices than most people, but that these vices are just as bad and therefore I hold myself and others in enmity.

'Empathy toward others stems from that which we allow for ourselves'

I'd say my empathy for others stems from my understanding and acceptance of their vices. I treat people like people, but that doesn't mean I have to like them. I mean, I don't even think I can even if I tried. I genuinely don't feel the oxytocin working anymore.

[therising]

Hi PrincessMilktea

Trying to work our self out can feel like a full time job. 'Why am I doing what I'm doing? Why am I thinking what I'm thinking? Why am I feeling the way I'm feeling or why am I not feeling?' are questions that can come to mind. To become the observer can present some interesting angles.

Wonder, intuition and inspiration have become major players in my life when it comes to observation and finding answers. Spending decades in the habit of temporarily blocking people out if they'd upset me would lead to the question 'What's wrong with me?!' It wasn't until recently that I came to instead ask 'I wonder why I detach?' I become curious as opposed to judging myself harshly. Inspiration dictated 'Observe the behaviour of others'.

• One person in my life has a habit of suddenly changing the subject when I'm talking about something I'm passionate about. I always listen carefully to what they say. So, when once I believed 'I feel hurt by the fact they don't care', my mind was altered by observation: 'What the heck? How careless are you?!'
• Another in my life prefers to sit and watch tv and drink rather than join me on adventure. I'm not a super adventurer, I just figure I gotta be adding ventures to life rather than be living in sameness. I love evolving. So, when once I believed 'I'm not interesting enough to spend time with' what eventually came to mind was 'They don't care about making a difference in their life. Their addictions are keeping them trapped in sameness'. Another self esteem booster.

The list goes on. My fault? I'm an enabler. I once tolerated their ability to care less, while being the one putting more care into the relationships.

Is what comes to mind for you actually inspiration? Are you supposed to be challenging people more? While ego/self preservation may say 'Don't challenge this person', inspiration may say 'Go for it, trigger them'. You could say this is like 'being in 2 minds'. People can be triggered to rise to anger/defensiveness or to higher consciousness. The 2nd is positively exciting.

There'll be times when I easily detach. In the case of a friend who insists they have no energy and they don't know why, I've mentioned many times the issue with them not eating enough, drinking enough water, getting productive sleep etc. Now, as they complain, in my mind is 'Mmm hmm, okay, right. You do you and see how that keeps working'. Inspiration leads me to detach from going around in circles, as their mind remains closed.

🙂