Am I being unhealthy?

[PrincessMilktea]

So despite the fact that I'm posting this in the depression forum I'd consider myself a pretty happy person overall, I just didn't know where to post this and depression seemed like the best fit, so my apologies in advance. Basically, everything in my life is going great except for the fact that I seem to have lost the ability to emotionally connect with others. I've noticed that I fake my emotions often and pretend to be more interested/invested than I actually am in people because I either don't want to hurt their feelings, want to gain something from them, or I just feel a strong compulsion to behave normally to preserve my 'image'.

I'm averse to standing out in any way (good or bad) and go to great lengths to keep a low profile whether at work or uni or just my social circles. I feel anxiety from being noticeably different from others and thus will not let people know how apathetic I truly am on the inside. The irony is that I want to emotionally connect with others but I can't seem to genuinely feel anything for them, even though they're mostly amazing people and had I met them when I was younger I would have definitely felt close to them. I think this apathy stems from just my terrible past friendships, relationships and familial trauma. Over the years I've had to dissolve many close relations with people I've cared deeply for and now I'm starting to think I'm emotionally burnt out as a result. This is going to sound sociopathic but I view like 90% of the people in my life as disposable. I know I feel next to nothing for most of them and that the only reason I'm not a full-blown sociopath is because I have enough empathy and integrity to realise they deserve to be treated better and I would feel terribly guilty for hurting them, so I treat them with compassion, commitment, support and 'perform' my duties in whatever capacity they need me to be.

I don't know if I should continue down this current trajectory or make an attempt to 'feel' again. It's not that much of an issue but nonethless it alarms me, and I wonder if it warrants going back to therapy. I apologise if my problems seem trivial in comparison to a lot of people here struggling with depression, I hope I haven't offended anyone and that my internal verbiage isn't too difficult to follow. I'd appreciate any insight/advice.

[tranzcrybe]

Hi PM,

I'd be fairly sure that my father lived his entire life in the state you presently find yourself, so I hope the comparison is of use...

Holding the middle ground was always my father's approach - neither for, nor against, anything. Trouble was, he had his own views but never voiced them, either from overt politeness, or just some irrational fear of being 'wrong' (which, as far as opinions go, isn't fully applicable...).

Because he never put himself out there, he was often overlooked when decisions were sought (which is a shame, for he had great intelligence), and this also affected his career prospects/promotions, even to the extent of the (low) level of esteem he held in the eyes of his peers.

Self identity involves risk of success or failure, but either outcome is good for your personal growth. Think of it like this: When you succeed, your outward personality beams with confidence; when you fail, you inner self strengthens its fortitude to rebuff the hurt and accept the painful facts. Either way, you win!

Do you think your lack of connection to others may have something to do with your own self identity?

Regards,

t.

[PrincessMilktea]

Hey tranzcrybe,

You asked me if my lack of connection to others had something to do with my own self-identity and that’s exactly what it comes down to. Unlike your father I’d say my natural personality is more assertive and direct, the problem is that I don’t really show that side of me unless I feel like I’m backed into a corner or that playing nice won’t get me the results I want.

Generally, playing nice is the better option, people trust you more and it tends to open up avenues for me socially, it also helps me fulfill my duties in meeting their emotional needs because they feel validated when I mirror their emotions or tell them what they want to hear. I think we all do this to a certain extent, but I think I do it to a much larger extent than normal. I’ve been told my real personality is too intense for most people to handle, I can be quite analytical/cold and honestly I have very niche hobbies/interests so it’s difficult when I try to connect with others.

I also find that when I converse with people my brain automatically filters out about 50% of what they say because I find that information to be irrelevant/uninteresting and the bits that I do pay attention to, tend to be the parts that the other person isn’t so interested in exploring.

I’ve learned the hard way that I tend to make others uncomfortable/overwhelmed when I’m just going off on my own tangent, and that they respond better to me when I focus on the 50% that I find boring. So I’ve unconsciously begun to dissimulate who I am and replaced her with a more diluted and ‘normal’ woman fit for domestic consumption.

I worry a lot about my friends/boyfriends meeting my family because I don’t want them to realise just how starkly different I am around them. A lot of these people play an important role in my life and I lose those benefits if I cut them off, my job also requires me to behave with more outward emotional warmth and sensitivity because of the nature of the work I do.

It’s kind of complicated overall, but I think it’s important to stress that I am very happy with my life right now, I indulge in my solitary hobbies and maintain a healthy social life despite the fact that I don’t always enjoy myself. I am only reaching out here because I fear my current path of lies and deceit will lead to delayed feelings of loneliness/regret later on and I guess I just wanted a second opinion from strangers who don’t know me in real life. Thank you for taking the time to try and help me.

[White_Rose]

Hello PM

It's great you decided to post in here for some support and suggestions.

The theme that came across to me from your posts is that you are a very cut and dried person. I suspect you can see the quickest way from A to B is a straight line. For most people this does not work, or at least not immediately. It seems you manage to put your feelings into a neat box and move on. I'm not sure what the cumulative effect on you will be though I think that further down the track these boxes will not hold any more and you will need to deal with them.

It's a useful attribute to be the bystander who sees most of the game and this dispassionate approach can be helpful to others. As I said above it's not a journey many people can manage. Mostly we need to talk about the events in our lives and how to manage them. I find that frequently people know what they could/should do but want the comfort of talking with others and perhaps getting new insights into their various problems.

This is a very human trait because we are social animals. Asking for help or giving help is one way we reaffirm our humanity and our bonds with each other. A blunt and direct answer can be disconcerting although there may be times when this is the most appropriate response. When you are at work you need your social skills and to demonstrate warmth and caring. What is useful to you I imagine is that you can put these work related events to one side once you have left work. It is a good way to avoid getting too attached to your customers and probably saves a lot of wear and tear on your emotional well being.

So lets talk about your social life. I get the impression you feel guilty for not entering into your friends problems. Do you also feel you cannot enter into their joys and successes? I was surprised to read, I am only reaching out here because I fear my current path of lies and deceit will lead to delayed feelings of loneliness/regret later on. May I ask what lies and deceit you believe you practice? You are prepared to listen to your friends troubles or interests which demonstrates your caring side. Maybe it's not as developed as many others but you can also say you do not enter into their emotions in way that is detrimental to you.

It's a difficult situation for many of us to provide the listening ear, help someone work through a problem until they are able to move on and walk away with minimum damage to ourselves. I am interested in your 'duty' to your friends.

Mary

[therising]

Hi PrincessMilktea

Was talking to someone just the other day about the filters we use in life that guide us to refrain from bringing our imagination into reality. I find 2 highly significant filters in my life to be empathy and integrity, things you mention. So, you can be standing there talking to someone whose conversation you find uninteresting. Without the filters of empathy and integrity, it would be easy to say 'Can we change the subject, this is boring the heck out of me'. Another example: You can be driving down the road when some so and so speeds up, tailgates you and then suddenly overtakes you, cutting you off. Your blood starts boiling. You can easily imagine catching up to them at the next set of lights, getting out of your car, punching in the driver side window, screaming profanities at them. In fact, you do catch up to them at the next red light, with your blood still boiling, but you do nothing. In between your imagination and doing nothing are filters. Personal integrity, following the law of the land, self control and perhaps a bit of divine guidance are all filters that leave you with no regret.

I too am an analytical person and I thrive on deep analytical conversations, especially when it comes to how life and people tick. I also thrive on utter nonsense based on having a vivid imagination. I've had several lengthy conversations with my 15yo son about how I'd manage to stay alive in a zombie apocalypse 🙂

Wouldn't surprise me if you admitted to being a bit of a daydreamer. Most wonderful people are. You can always tell when someone's full of wonder, they'll 'zone out' on a fairly regular basis, into imagination, natural analysis, curiosity and the occasional astounding revelation. Easy to trigger a wonderful person, all you have to say is 'I want you to imagine...' or 'Do you ever wonder if/why...?' Off they go, into that part of the brain which is truly incredible, regarding the insight it offers.

It's tough when you know who you naturally are (questioning, wonderful, in need of mental stimulation/excitement and so on) yet others aren't the same. You mention you automatically filter out what's uninteresting/irrelevant. Consider rephrasing that to 'naturally filter out'. If you found yourself within a whole new circle of people just like you, I imagine you'd naturally gradually drift away from 90% of the people currently in your life, based on a whole new exciting experience, where you'd thrive on being your most natural self.

🙂

[PrincessMilktea]

Hey Mary, nice to meet you again.

I may seem cut and dry about my feelings but I'd say I'm just highly metacognitive and a problem-solver. As for my social life, I definitely enter into my friends problems, I actively listen, identify and affirm their feelings with the ultimate goal of making them feel better. It is emotionally draining, but I see that as my duty to them as a friend. I want to be a good person.

The lies and deceit part comes into play when I realise that the words coming out of my mouth, my body language, my rehearsed smiles and timed reactions are incongruent to what I am actually thinking/feeling, which is mainly apathy.

For instance I have a cousin who, for many good reasons, is unable to divorce her husband who treats her terribly. So she spends a lot of our interactions just complaining/crying invectives about him, and having had already exhausted multiple solutions to her problems, to no avail (due to her extenuating circumstances), I am sick of hearing about it. I understand I am really her only friend, and that she needs me to be emotionally present and available, so I do my part but in my head I just feel like telling her to shut up and stop crying because it won't change anything and her problems are of her own poor decision making skills anyway.

I have other examples where I feel like reacting more harshly/unsympathetically but I curb the urge and play nice. Mostly, I just feel apathy, like if this person ceases to add value to my life, I wouldn't hesitate to cut them out. I've ended an 8 year friendship over something similar, all my friendships/relationships are conditional, and honestly I just don't feel all that attached to people at all. My ability to just disentangle myself from people scares me. I wasn't always like this.

I hold a lot of contentious world views and opinions but I routinely hold my tongue and give measured, lukewarm responses instead when asked, especially for my part-time job where I interview people about politics/television/government/social issues etc. Basically, I wear this mask in front of pretty much everyone, I am rarely behaving as myself and this brings me back to the fear that I will later feel regret or loneliness by continuing in this vein.

I don't know if I am a bad person for being disingenuous. I don't know if I'm setting myself up for failure. I don't know if I'm being unhealthy.

[PrincessMilktea]

Hey therising, I completely relate to what you've said. And yeah, you caught me, I'm a day-dreamer, it actually got me inspired to 3D print toys for children. I basically ask them to send me drawings of their wildest imaginations, whatever they can dream of, and then I set to work on recreating those drawings into real life toys through 3D printing. I feel a deep sense of joy when their little faces light up at seeing their dreams, quite literally, come true.

You suggested I find a new circle of people like me but I've met many wonderful people, yet I still struggle to feel things for them. I've had a lot of painful experiences with people in the past and I'm not sure that they are the exception to the rule. The more I get to know people the more self-absorbed, unintelligent, expedient, hypocritical and morally bankrupt I find them. Even the so-called 'good' ones. I'm no saint either.

I sound cynical but I've read a lot on history, politics, philosophy, psychology and sociology in my spare time and some of the things I've learned about the human condition has left my soul feel like a harrowing void. One of the reasons why I love 3D printing is because I feel that the imagination is truly the only place unfettered, untamed and unadulterated by man's continued efforts to condition human beings into behaving as mere capital in motion. I wanted to combat that problem in my own way, by cultivating the creative spirit and just generally being a good person, but I feel emotionally defeated and I don't know if I can feel any real attachment to people anymore. Like chemically, I don't know if I even release oxytocin in my brain, I feel it bond me indelibly with animals, and family, but that's it. I'm begining to wonder if I should be content with that or seek help.

[White_Rose]

Hello PM

Thanks for your explanation, it has helped me understand what you have written. As yes I agree in general with your comments. I too have a friend who for the past few years has moaned and complained at just about everything in her life and it is wearing. I have been unwell for the past couple of years and managing my medical condition is hard enough without supporting my friend. So when her GP finally persuaded her to take some medication and it worked I was so pleased. I think I was as pleased for myself as much as for her. Yes she has genuine difficulties but is stubborn about acting on any solution suggested. I do understand why and I know it would take a huge leap of faith to change her lifestyle so I am not expecting anything to happen. At least there is less gloom and doom.

Interesting comment about oxytocin. I wonder about about my ability to care for others but I have decided I can only care so much without getting compassion overload. Maybe you have discovered this also.

Your 3D imaging sounds great. I can most definitely imagine a child's face on being given their dream in real life. How many of us ever get that. The pleasure may wear off in a while but it does happen and feels good at the time. Perhaps there is a bit of self behaviour modification in the reward process.

"I've met many wonderful people, yet I still struggle to feel things for them. " I think you are feeling something for others when you decide/discover they are wonderful. Acknowledging their intrinsic goodness no matter if it is accompanied by an obvious emotion or not does not remove the pleasure of this discovery.

"I feel like reacting more harshly/unsympathetically but I curb the urge and play nice." At least you have the grace to 'play nice'. You do sound a little troubled or uncertain about yourself. Asking for a second opinion is probably a good thing. You may discover in the process that you really do prefer your current lifestyle which I suggest will remove some angst from your life. If you want to change hopefully you would be given some assistance in this. Why not give it a try?

Mary

[therising]

Hi PrincessMilktea

Wow, you are definitely an inspiration! There are plenty of kids out there longing for an adult who shares their vision, their imagination. My 15yo son would love you. He has an incredible imagination, evident in his dreams for the future and his incredible artwork.

Ahh, yes, the soul. What feeds it? Definitely imagination, wonder (without a doubt), excitement, adventures (adding ventures, not just repeating the same ones), questioning, reasoning, full blown emotions and much more. Basically, how we start off in life is...as our natural self. 'What the heck happened, to our natural self?' some may wonder. With imagination, we may be told, in so many ways, 'You need to get real! Don't be such a daydreamer!'. With wonder, we may be told to 'just get with the program', as opposed to being encouraged to wonder what's actually wrong with some of those programs we're meant to 'get with'. While excitement is what connects us to life, we may be told to 'settle down' way too often. We may be advised to 'Stop asking why and just do as you're told', suppressing our inquisitive nature which must seek reason for just about everything. What typically leads us to be reasonable people involves exercising the skill of reasoning. Emotions...well...don't get me started.

Emotion (energy in motion) is a fascinating topic. How do we feel excitement/energy through our body? How do we feel a gradual rise to anger/intolerance through our body? How do we feel a rise to fear or courage? What about the sense of disconnection? In a world where we are expected to 'toughen up', being sensitive enough to feel so much or even recognise the reasons behind there being no feeling, is exactly what connects us to life.

I recall when I first came out of my 15 or so years in depression, some time ago. I felt like a kid again. I was filled with wonder, excitement, questioning, a longing for adventure and much more. Some months later, I found myself feeling down. I was not in the kind of depression which I'd previously escaped, just down and disappointed. I'd felt like a kid in a playground, to start with, until I realised no one wanted to play. It was a lonely time, indeed. When others don't share the same vision, the same imagination, the same level of wonder, it can feel lonely.

In a way, everyone's playing their own game. It is interesting to observe the games played through the ego, compared to those played through the soul. Easy to imagine the difference.

🙂

[tranzcrybe]

Hi Milktea,

Sorry not to have followed up sooner, but a lot of this is well over my head!

I have read all about your 'persona' and can sort of relate to its practical purpose, but don't you just get bored being 'that person'? How you feel/behave around your parents is something you don't want to reveal to friends/boyfriends - but that is who you are, and you can't hide that for any lasting friendship/relationship to take hold.

Could your lack of interest in others be due to the fact that they aren't talking to you, but your alter ego? In other words, are you not even part of the conversation?

What would occur if you left your left your shell behind?

Still trying to get a handle...

Regards,

t.