Anxiety over my effect on others

[BeyondDepression]

Over the years I have been slowly withdrawing from contact with people. In that time my anxiety has been manageable. However lately I have HAD TO have contact with more people and have noticed as a result that my anxiety symptoms are increasing again.

This has brought on self reflection, and I think my problem can be summarised as follows:

"when I interact with people and have the potential to hurt them in some way, then I catastrophise about the worst case scenarios of the resulting POSSIBLE damage to an excessive degree, and this causes me a huge amount of anxiety. This anxiety really is unfounded as these worst case scenarios have never come to pass, but to me they take over my life until I have shown that they are in fact unfounded"

I am not meaning to hurt them, I should make that clear, in fact that is the last thing I want.

Examples

Physical - when I do meet someone I can catastrophise for days afterwards about whether I am in the early stages of for example covid or some other communicable disease and that I have inadvertently passed it on. Yes I know I cannot possibly help that sort of thing, but my mind nonetheless goes into overdrive thinking of what MIGHT happen, not to me, but to them, who they might pass it onto and how that might affect those people.

Emotional - if I am chatting to someone and I say something, and in assessing the response, I may think I have offended someone and caused them some hurt. I will then catastrophise to an abnormal degree about the repercussions of this. How I have hurt their feelings and possibly made them feel bad about themselves.

I have come to realise that my withdrawing is in truth due to me not wanting to cause myself unnecessary anxiety, but can also see how this is self defeating in the long term.

I KNOW this is not normal, and when people do mention it to me on occasion, it makes me want to withdraw even more as I know it is not normal and feel therefore that I am not normal.

It is causing me a huge amount of mental anguish, and so I am wondering if anyone has any tips, books, websites etc or insight on the problem?

[indigo22]

Hi BeyondDepression,

I see you have been a member for a few years, so glad you decided to reach out.

I don't see that there is a difference between an irrational fear, such as you have described, and a phobia of some type ie. heights, spiders etc.

I am wondering whether finding a therapist who is well versed in exposure therapy may be of help to you. 

There is almost always a root cause for these kinds of fears, can you think of anything that may have set this fear in motion?

There is a thread on the forum that many members have contributed to that would be worth a look for ways of managing your anxiety.

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/anxiety/self-help-tips-for-managing-anxiety/td-p/50482

Holding this level of fear, anxiety and anguish is detrimental to your health, so if you have not already done so, I would suggest reaching out to your GP in order to find some help through counselling (and medication if need be).

Since you mentioned "normal" a few times in your post, there is a book "The Myth of Normal" by Gabor Mate. It is in my reading list but I haven't started reading it as yet. However, Gabor is well known and has a number of books on trauma related issues. Another book, which I have read, is "The Body Keeps the Score" by Bessel van der Kolk. This book helps with understanding the effect of long term stress on the body which I think would be good for you to read. Another book you may find helpful is "Anchored" by Deb Dana. This one explains about the nervous system and vagus nerve (known as Polyvagul Theory). There are also a couple of books on breathing techniques that may be helpful, one is "Breath" by James Nestor, the other is "Just Breathe" by Dan Brule.

I hope this is of help to you and please feel free to continue the conversation if you wish.

Take care of yourself,

indigo

[white knight]

Hi, welcome

Yes, I have a history of "catastrophizing" and dwelling and we tend not to know its a problem until the ramifications hit home after anxiety forms. A few decades ago I sort therapy for that and other issues brought about or came to a head over my anxiety so it helped enormously.

I was taught to recognise unrealistic thoughts, ask myself- "is that an unrealistic thought or real". eg Taking a sick day off work... "will my boss visit my house to see if I'm really sick". Then all day in my garden I'd be watching ever car that drove by.

In my country property I'd keep the grass low but still worried a snake would attack my dog.

So over a few months of asking myself "is that realistic"? it began to sink in. Once I accepted that those intrusive unreal thoughts were wasteful rampant brain cells doing their own thing I used distraction to move onto other thoughts and the best way to do that is to - do anything thats physical. A simple walk around the block will divert your eyes and mind to other things. I used to have a larg jigsaw in a spare room and go there, do 20 pieces then return to my tasks, those thought would no longer be present.

People. There are some mental illness like ADHD, bipolar and more that can, not always, have the "foot in mouth" disease meaning mind thinks but mouth say it poorly. I fell into this for decades before I realised it has a lot to do with anxiety too. I think the first thing to take note of is- its ok not to talk if you feel any anxiety, some of us have guilt and that drives us to talk as we feel we arent contributing so thats another aspect of low self esteem. Guilt can make you worry. Topics of guilt, worry and torment are in links below that you'll find useful. you only need to read the first post of each link.

When you feel you might have hurt someone with a comment, reverse it. "Would I feel hurt if they said that to me"? If not then - divert attention. Your kindness level is high to worry about others well being on such apparent trivial matters so take that as a plus. i.e. mean people dont worry about others welfare. Remember- its ok to be quiet, ok to not mingle, ok to be alone but best to like yourself at the same time.

Self help and this forum is great to assit you with home based knowledge, therapy might be needed if you feel you need professional care. Repost anytime.

Worry, worry worry - Beyond Blue Forums - 87808

GUILT the tormentor - Beyond Blue Forums - 321604

Depression-distraction and variety - Beyond Blue Forums - 275790

TonyWK

Meditation - words of wisdom - it helped me for 25... - Page 2 - Beyond Blue Forums - 89818

[therising]

Hi BeyondDepression

I've found a brilliant book to be 'Insanely Gifted: Turn Your Demons Into Creative Rocket Fuel', by Jamie Catto. Catto himself suffered from debilitating anxiety when he was young. It was a level of anxiety that led to deep depression. After years of coming to better understand himself, through a number of revelations, the book became a way of him sharing what worked brilliantly for him.

In a nutshell, the book is about how our so called 'inner demons' can develop at certain points in our life and how they feel and sound (in the way of inner dialogue). So, it's about how to better understand parts of ourself such as our inner critic, inner stresser, inner pessimist and so on. There are definitely aspects of our self that can lead life to feel like a kind of hell on earth at times. 

I've found, when it comes to certain aspects of our self, which can go toward making up the whole of who we are, there are some that need to be brought to life. While we can have a critic, stresser or pessimist chatting away up there in our head, there can also be an inspirational or encouraging part of who we are, a carefree part and even an inner optimistic which can lead us to see the bright side of what can appear as stressful or depressing. I like to imagine who we are to be like an old style wagon wheel. With the hub being our core sense of self, the spokes represent the many aspects that stem from that. Then there is the rim which encompasses it all. It's our core sense of self that can ask 'Which aspect do I need to tap into at this time in my life?'. 

While imagining dozens of spokes, there are some that we'll never tap into until a need to connect with them is felt. I suppose an example could involve the need to connect with new people, especially if we're feeling lonely and depressed. Cue our inner adventurer that can lead us to add ventures, as opposed to repeating the same old ventures that get us nowhere when it comes to meeting new people. Of course, if our inner stresser (that leads us to social anxiety) dictates 'This is too stressful. You can't go adding ventures because you just won't be able to cope with that', the stresser in us needs to be managed and led to taking a back seat. It might be our inner sage that drives us, through dialogue that sounds like 'You'll be fine. Just breathe through what challenges you' or 'Take someone with you who can be your support person when it comes to adding ventures and meeting new people. Find someone to help you manage what you've never had to consciously manage before'. As a gal who struggles with social anxiety I know all this can be easier said than done 🙂.

A solid core sense of self is the most important thing of all. Call it 'ego' or 'soul' or 'the part that's in charge of the whole thing' or whatever works. Without it, parts of us can completely take over our life. When the stresser takes over our life or the catastrophiser, we can be led to imagine nothing but the worst.

[Eagle Ray]

Hi BeyondDepression,

I can very much relate to your post. I have spent most of my life in a similar state, worrying about the possibility that my very existence and whatever I say or do could hurt others.

For me this was the repetition of a pattern learned in childhood. Both of my parents could be very volatile and harsh which created a lot of fear in me to begin with. But my mother in particular held me responsible for her emotional state. This could take the form of her expecting me to be her confidante/counsellor/support even when I was a very small child. But it also took the form of her blaming me for her emotional and physical struggles. Even when I was an adult it continued. So she told me the osteoarthritis in her knees was my problem and I was responsible for making it better, or statements such as, “I can’t get my life together until you get your life together”. She would also take offence to a statement from me that came from kindness but she would take it the wrong way, so I was always walking on egg shells not knowing how I was going to inadvertently upset her next. Essentially I was taught I am responsible for other people’s emotional states and if they are upset it must be my fault.

So I am wondering were there any patterns in your childhood, either subtle or more overt, whereby someone had a tendency to make you fear you may be hurting or harming others through your actions or presence? What I can say for sure is that if you are so sensitive in this way, most likely you are the least likely person to harm anyone. As Tony says, your kindness level is high.

What has gradually helped me with this pattern is realising the source of it but also learning to love and value myself, to have a sense of my own worth and a sense of where I end and others begin. So, in other words, I understand now I am in no way responsible for other’s emotional states or wellbeing and I am allowed to exist as a person in my own right. I can still care about others and choose to act kindly, but I am not actually responsible for others. I also have to start with kindness towards myself.

Only recently I went to a meditation and talk at a Buddhist Centre and I caught myself in my old patterns. They included fearing I’d sat in the wrong place and I might be obscuring other’s view, thinking maybe I’d sat too close to others which might bother them and trying to see if I could move, and even thinking that my own presence might be toxic to the room and bothering the speaker. That is how deeply I can feel I’m a problem to others. But I catch myself out on these patterns now and begin to direct support and loving kindness to myself. I’m working with a really good psychologist too which has helped me begin to value and see myself. Before I was entirely focussed on the care and wellbeing of others.

I’m not sure if any of that resonates, but I can say that I am definitely changing out of that pattern now and I’m sure you can too with awareness and care. Sometimes it’s figuring out why our patterns of anxiety are there and then we can begin to heal the pattern.

Much kindness to you,

ER

[BeyondDepression]

Sometimes it helps just by knowing that you are not alone and this is one of those cases.

I've never had much success with professional help, unfortunately, tending to go it alone and try to learn more about myself, by reading and viewing articles on the internet.

I believe a lot of my foot in mouth is more about revisiting conversations LOOKING for the fault in my words. It is a bit like catastrophising, but for the words you have spoken not your actions.

Sometimes also I post in the "heat of the moment". Being alone, and the stigma (even if I believe that it is myself) of mental illness, means I need to let loose the kracken 🙂

Thanks for your comments and I will read up on your links

Regards

[BeyondDepression]

Thanks for the book idea. I have kindled it and will definitely read. Always looking for books that help me help myself!

Thanks again

Regards

[BeyondDepression]

Hi ER

A lot of this resonates, but possibly a slightly different backstory. My childhood too, was volatile, and having thought on this in the past, a lot of my current issues MAY have to do with feeling I had to read by parent, as it was such a volatile environment. Of course, being a child you are quite often incorrect in the reading, and this can create quite a bit of child anxiety, not knowing "which way the axe will fall", and never quite getting it right.

I believe that this may be contributing to my problem now all these years later. I am also a believer in epigenetics, and feel that part of this is related to my psyche as I age. It never used to be an issue except for the past ten years or so.

I think you are right, it is learning about the pattern, the puzzle to be solved. It's just so exhausting dealing with it. The anxiety also amplifies if I have multiple "triggers" which is what happened to evoke this post the other day. I have since looked after myself to stop any other triggers, and the anxiety even as at now is diminishing. The problem is that if I "let sleeping dogs lie" then I will never get back to having / making friends. i need to try and overcome this and not let it rule my life.

Thanks for your post. I will come back and read it again. Buddhism has always interested my over most other religions. The compassion mainly.

[BeyondDepression]

Thanks!

I have a few of these books "Body keeps the score" and "Breath" but will look at the others and see if they pique my interest.

Thanks again

regards

[Eagle Ray]

Hi BeyondDepression,

I find epigenetics super interesting and have read quite a bit on it. Do you think in your situation there may be some ancestral trauma or patterns passed down as well? If you think there could be epigenetic links going back to past generations (e.g. gene expressions that got switched on, for example, in a grandparent) there is an interesting book on this topic called It Didn't Start With You by Mark Wolynn. He is a psychotherapist who works with shifting epigenetic patterns that have been transmitted down the line. He does a lot of work with the language people use to uncover the deepest core fears they hold. He has often found the language people use to describe their worst fear uncovers a central clue to an underlying ancestral trauma. Many times it has led him and a client to investigate and identify something in their ancestral history that suddenly becomes apparent as to where a particular anxiety or trauma pattern started. It is really fascinating. It has often then led to a resolution of that anxiety/trauma pattern. The exciting thing about epigenetics is that the same gene expression that got switched on can be switched off again which gives a great deal of hope in resolving chronic patterns.

I have one such pattern that has come down through my paternal grandfather's war trauma. I knew nothing about those experiences until my dad told me some things when I was a young adult. I never met my grandfather who died before I was born. But I had involuntary visions from my earliest memories as a child that were a repetition of a particular war trauma he went through. These appear to have been encoded in memory via epigenetics. I never told anyone about it until recently as they probably would have thought I was a bit crazy. But I was able to tell my current psychologist and we were able to do some somatic processing of it. It hasn't completely disappeared yet but it did diminish. I'm still working on it. I've had great success with somatic work for processing other traumas from my life. This particular one with my grandfather is quite embedded, I think because of the severity of it and the way it's imprinted. But I'm very much an optimist and I feel like I'm healing my grandfather's memory, not just mine, if I can resolve it.

Sorry, that was a tangent! I'm glad that the anxiety has been diminishing at the moment. You sound like someone who is interested in the world and one thing I learned is that when our curiosity is activated, that switches off the anxiety/trauma circuits in the brain, at least temporarily. So I think being interested in problem solving what's happening can in itself reduce and disrupt the anxiety pattern and bring about some healing. It would be good if you could find some good professional help. I did not have much luck either with professional help for a long time until I found my current psychologist. There may be someone out there who is really the right fit for you to work with but it can take some perseverance finding them. It is definitely something to trust your instincts and intuition on. They need to definitely feel and be the right fit for you. I feel like your user name here, Beyond Depression, indicates you are someone positively trying to work things out and you are already on the right path.

Buddhism is preferable to me too over most other religions and I also really value the compassion. I don't think I would become an actual Buddhist in the formal sense, but I get a great deal out of it and probably have a sort of Buddhist nature in wanting to be kind to all things. Perhaps even your desire to take so much care not to potentially hurt anyone is part of why you would be drawn to Buddhism also? I think having that compassion for other living beings is something we can also learn to direct back towards ourselves too.

Anyway, take good care of you.

ER