Advice on relationship-y stuff and self-image

[Danioboy]

Hi folks!

Hope you're all doing ok.

So, I'll try to keep this relatively short (though in doing so I will leave out a bunch of the story).

About a year ago, I got friendly with this girl and developed feelings for her. I was going to ask her out, but wanted to know what my friends thought of her before I asked. Basically, no more than a week after I introduced her to my best friend he asked her out (I hadn't told him I was going to, etc.). This hurt a bunch but I kept it to myself for a long time, and I progressively got worse emotionally. Eventually I told them, which didn't really help me at all - in fact this made it worse. They were nice about it, and supportive, etc. (they were my two best friends at this stage).

Eventually, they stopped dating and she started dating another guy (who is now also one of my good friends).

I now don't know if I like her or not, I'm really confused - I guess I'll figure it out eventually - but I'm not over it by any means (though a lot better than I was).

I don't want to blame this completely, but I think it heavily influenced my poor/relatively unhealthy self-image. She is the only girl I have been this close to so I guess a part of me perceives her as a 'representation' of the female sex (which I know is not logical and is wrong in a number of ways). But anyways, I've never seen myself as anything close to society's standards of good looking, my friends are objectively much more attractive than I by these standards. This wasn't a problem before but is now.

Basically, it feels like I'm just feeling sorry for myself for not getting the girl, and I'm kinda convinced that I have no chance in the 'relationships' area due to the self-image issues (with the above story as 'evidence' of how incompetent I am in this regard).

Its a lot more complex then this, but anyway... any advice you could give would be greatly appreciated, or if you want me to clarify anything or give more details I am happy to do so.

I'll also say, recently I haven't been feeling too down, but thought it would be a good idea to talk about it.

Thanks 🙂

[Aphador]

I would just like to make an additional post to preface a few things about the book, not only for our sake but for others that might come across this thread.

(1) This book is not a replacement for seeing a counsellor/psychologist. The author (although a psychotherapist himself) stresses this point and suggests that the themes of the book can be discussed with one. I went through the content of this book without seeing a counsellor; however, I have seen counsellor's/psychologists in the past due to things I uncovered about myself due to this book (and others like it).

(2) I don't believe this book is anti-feminist. Many of the themes of this book have the potential to be taken out of context in the current age (this book was written in the early 2000s). I consider myself a feminist. I would like to emphasise that this book is more about changing self-image and becoming confident in yourself, rather than a libel against feminism.

(3) The theme of family is recurrent in this book. It is a strange thing to think about- especially for those of us who believe we had perfect childhoods. It is something that to be understood entirely, should probably be communicated with a therapist/counsellor. I recognise that psychodynamic theories are often speculated against; however, without a doubt, many people (including parents) seem to misjudge the effect that parenting has on the development of a child/person. Although we may be able to recognise these faults in our parents, we mustn't get angry at them, or judge them for it. Our parents are people too, who were once upon a time, just as clueless as you or me.

(4) Many of the anecdotes in this book are of men who are middle-aged and married, perhaps giving it slightly less relevancy to 'young people' like you (Dan) and me. I still found this book extremely relevant to trends I saw in my life, and the themes/activities of the book were an excellent leaping pad into other books/ideas that may be considered 'more relevant.'

I'm not suggesting you should see a therapist Dan; however, I believe their service to be invaluable. As I am currently at university, I can use the free counselling sessions they provide on a monthly basis- even though I no longer have any significant concerns with my life. You may, however, find that going through the content in this book and discussing it with me will be helpful enough 🙂

Sorry for the long post!

[Danioboy]

Hi,

I have noticed that in some aspects of my identity I do avoid being 'masculine', but in others I actually strive to be more 'masculine'. I'll give an example of each:

More Masculine - be more 'handy' in a practical sense, i.e: fixing things etc.; something I have no interest in beyond seeming more masculine

Less Masculine - avoiding conflict

Activity 4: (Note any of the ways in which you seek approval.)

I keep my hair relatively long and try to keep in relatively good shape. I guess because if I get complimented about my appearance, it'll either be about my hair or my fitness.

Other ways are:

- Being intelligent

- Having a pleasant, non-threatening voice

- Looking unselfish

- Being different from other men

- Never getting angry

- Making other people happy

- Being nice

- Never offending anyone

[Danioboy]

(This is in relation to the last post)

I have also just realised that when I drink with friends I do it mainly for approval (at least when I drink the quatities that I drink when with friends I am).

And the opposite is true with my family; I stay sober for approval around them.

[Aphador]

Awesome work Dan, Keep it up 🙂

You and I sound very similar- many of these things I recognised in myself (especially hair and fitness). I used to live for those complements even if I would act like it didn't mean anything to me.

[Danioboy]

Yeah I relate to that, with a fair few things on the list as well.
Activity 5: If you did not care what people thought of you, how would you live your life differently? If you were not concerned with getting the approval of women, how would your relationships with the opposite sex be different?
Well, to answer the first question, as I write this from my room, I have looked around it for inspiration and I guess I have realised I would not keep as much of the material things that others have given/provided me. For example my parents bought me a desk when I started highschool, and I never really used it beyond an extra place for storage within my room. I'd get rid of it if I the possibility that my parents could potentially be hurt by the act as they had spent time and money to buy it and gave it to me with love, idk that might sound silly..
But more generally, its kind of hard to say; I guess Ii would be more open about my mental health, and wouldn't be so quite when being around people I don't know very well.
And the second question - I don't know that I would change much, just act more naturally, and do the stuff listed in activity 4 less

[Aphador]

Good Work Dan,

Activity 5 is one that I still have trouble with. Especially with my parents, as I mentioned. You can start small and build up, however. For me, this was not succumbing to the peer pressure of going out with friends every week. I don't like going out often but went due to pressure to fit in. Whether I chose to go out or stay in, I wanted to be comfortable with my choice. Realising that my friends wouldn't hate me for it.

It's about recognising what you want to do in certain situations, rather than fulfilling the needs of others. Obviously being courteous to others is great, but people like you and I tend to go over the top to please.

Being open about mental health is a big one, but I think it's important. I am open about my mental health in my life in order to raise awareness so people know what it looks like and to try and reduce stigma around it.

Aphador 🙂

[Danioboy]

Hey Aphador,

I really respect you for talking about mental health openly with people. I definitely wish I was better at it; I'd also like my friends to be better at it too, I think we would become closer if that wasn't as much of a 'boundary' between us.

My issue with talking about my mental health (especially in person) is that often I don't feel like I am successfully communicating my emotions accurately. There is also that kinda... self-imposed stigma that I definitely feel when I try to bring it up, even though I know for a fact that they would be supportive and try to help me. I also almost feel guilty when I talk about my emotions (when their negative) as I feel like I'm complaining and should just sort it out, often it feels like my problems seem insignificant if I voice them, or at least seem that to another they would look so, which sort of comes back to the successful communication thing somewhat.

Another reason I don't like talking about my feelings in real life is that my brain seems to freeze or become cloudy when I try to think about how to express myself this way, and it becomes hard for me to actually speak at all sometimes. I think this is some sort of self-defense thing my brain thinks is necassary.

I have a feeling these things are some of the main things that will be helped by the book.

So how would you live differently around your parents?

[Danioboy]

Activity 6: Write down examples of situations in which you have tried to hide or distract attention from any of these perceived flaws. How effective do you think you are in keeping these things hidden from the people you love?

The biggest one for me is, having a phobia-like thing of eating fruit - which I know is not healthy at all and I really want to try to remedy this (but keep avoiding it 'cause its kinda a fear), but I don't know why it exists or where it came from. Up to this day I think only one of my friends would know about this.

Another thing is-especially last year-was hiding my sexuality/that I was sexual. This was to others as well as to myself, this was an attempt to convince myself and the girl mentioned in the first post that she didn't mean as much to me as I felt at that time. (There was other stuff that happened related to this that I don't want to talk about tonight as it will be uncomfortable to talk about, but if you could prompt me in your next reply I think it would be beneficial for me to get some stuff off my chest about that).

I definitely tried to repress and hide my emotions, but it eventually got to the point where I couldn't. I try to do that less now (often unsuccessfully).

I don't actively try to hide it, but if I mess up with something I casually avoid talking about it.

I do often try to hide my needs and the fact that I have them as well.

I want to comment on how doing this is affecting me in general life. Since I have started doing this I have definitely felt far more positive on average; happier, etc. I've also been acting more confident I think, which is good thing; often this makes me feel a bit more confident. But I'm not sure if it has been all positive change; I have started kind of... joking about insecurities I have. This might be a good thing because it is one step closer to openly talking about them, but may be bad as I am making a joke out of it... I'm not sure yet. What do you think?

Thanks,

Dan

[Danioboy]

Activity 7: Do you believe that people can see your human imperfections and still love you?

(Yes)

How would you be different if you knew the people who care about you would never leave you or stop loving you — no matter what

Its not the people who care about me that I am generally concerned with, it is the people who I don't know as well, etc. who I have more of a problem with... I don't know if its like a "fear of the unknown" kinda thing

[Aphador]

Hey Dan,

Sorry I've been away! I'll be on here often now though.

It's tough to talk to or even recognise our emotions/feelings. I would recommend taking small steps- something that helped me to be able to be more open was first talking about emotions with a counsellor. Eventually, I have been able to move on to being more open with my friends.

I used to feel guilty about 'burdening' my friends with my feelings- or that's what I used to think. I would tell myself that this was the reason, but I was just uncomfortable talking about my feelings as I wanted to be seen as 'tough' or 'masculine.'

Around my parents, I often would conform to how they believe I should be acting, rather than who I actually am. I wasn't able to be open around them at all. I try to be strong and masculine for my father, and kind/caring/considerate for my mother (in excess).